Ask God for Me

[Clizby WampusCat]

One of the key teachings of Hinduism is of the Energy, or primordial cosmic divine energy that moves through the entire Universe. Call it a Universal Force perhaps? It's a Life Force that expresses itSelf as a flow of Divine energy through the whole of Creation This is more in line with modern Physics than it is the Christian image of God as being separate and apart from Creation.

How is this inline with modern Physics?

 

[dlamberth]

How is this inline with modern Physics?

There's energy everywhere, even in the space between worlds.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

There's energy everywhere, even in the space between worlds.

Yes, how is this a divine energy? What is your evidence?

 

[dlamberth]

Yes, how is this a divine energy? What is your evidence?

I didn't say it was.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I didn't say it was.

Ok

 

[Ed1wolf]

What physics points to the existence of God? Physics is clear that some form of matter/energy must exist, we just don't know what form that is.

The BB theory strongly points that space, time and matter (energy) had a definite beginning and therefore is an effect and requires a cause. And the existence of purposes in the universe, such as eyes for seeing and ears for hearing point to that cause being Personal.

 

[Ed1wolf]

By animals you likely mean non human animals, because we are technically animals as well, the problem becoming how the word in the vernacular tends to suggest something more of a prescriptive quality rather than the descriptive one I prefer to use myself more often: that we are animals rather than plants or the like taxonomically and "beast" could substitute just as well for the non-human animal so we don't have to add the qualifier

As a Christian, God has revealed to us that while we have animal bodies we are qualitatively different from animals due to our full orbed personhood (image of God) which animals dont have. They have some partial aspects of personhood but they are not full persons. However, Both humans and animals are creatures, ie created beings, unlike the creator.

 

[Ed1wolf]

By animals you likely mean non human animals, because we are technically animals as well, the problem becoming how the word in the vernacular tends to suggest something more of a prescriptive quality rather than the descriptive one I prefer to use myself more often: that we are animals rather than plants or the like taxonomically and "beast" could substitute just as well for the non-human animal so we don't have to add the qualifier

As a Christian, God has revealed to us that while we have animal bodies we are qualitatively different from animals due to our full orbed personhood (image of God) which animals dont have. They have some partial aspects of personhood but they are not full persons. However, Both humans and animals are creatures, ie created beings, unlike the creator.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Physics doesn't state anything in regards to an absolute answer, because it's science, the universe very well could have a beginning, but that's one interpretation in regards to the Big bang cosmological model and there isn't necessarily evidence that leans primarily to one or the other given that we can't readily study beyond black holes, but merely speculate about what happens to Planck time beyond the event horizon, etc.

Most of the evidence points to all matter, space, time having a beginning, which makes it an effect and therefore, according to logic requires a cause. Other characteristics of the universe point to that cause being the Christian God. When you run the BB backwards you come to a point with no dimensions, ie nothing.

 

[Ed1wolf]

One of the key teachings of Hinduism is of the Energy, or primordial cosmic divine energy that moves through the entire Universe. Call it a Universal Force perhaps? It's a Life Force that expresses itSelf as a flow of Divine energy through the whole of Creation This is more in line with modern Physics than it is the Christian image of God as being separate and apart from Creation.

No, there is no evidence that the energy in the universe is alive. And the whole concept of all being one goes against most human experience which is that we are unique individuals and experience life as individuals and science has confirmed that.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

The BB theory strongly points that space, time and matter (energy) had a definite beginning and therefore is an effect and requires a cause.

It may point to a cause but how do you get from that cause to a god did it?

And the existence of purposes in the universe, such as eyes for seeing and ears for hearing point to that cause being Personal.

We have good evidence to believe that evolution created eyes, ears etc. What evidence do you have that a god created them?

 

[muichimotsu]

Most of the evidence points to all matter, space, time having a beginning, which makes it an effect and therefore, according to logic requires a cause. Other characteristics of the universe point to that cause being the Christian God. When you run the BB backwards you come to a point with no dimensions, ie nothing.

That evidence is provisional, we don't know that for certain, we can only observe so far, you're making a leap in logic and don't even necessarily seem to understand the theory entirely, it doesn't suggest that it's utter nothingness (which isn't really scientifically demonstrable), but that it's fundamentally different in terms of being a singularity and such

A beginning absolutely /=/ a beginning as we observe it, if we're being remotely honest and humble in terms of our assessment of the evidence we observe

 

[muichimotsu]

As a Christian, God has revealed to us that while we have animal bodies we are qualitatively different from animals due to our full orbed personhood (image of God) which animals dont have. They have some partial aspects of personhood but they are not full persons. However, Both humans and animals are creatures, ie created beings, unlike the creator.

I never said we were identical to animals and even biologically, we are distinct, but taxonomically, we are demonstrably animals, we have those basic traits of multicellular eukaryotes, distinct from the other 5 kingdoms in regards to such traits like plants and fungi or bacteria.

I also never claimed animals were equivalent in the particular capacity humans have or that they're morally equal in being agents, rather than patients. And I also didn't invoke the term person, that was you, obfuscating the issue by prattling on about your doctrine that's irrelevant to basic biological truth in regards to the term that people seem to just use willy nilly otherwise and ignore anything contrary because it would affect their preconceptions that animals are basically worthless or only useful pragmatically to humans (dominion over the earth and all)

Creation is a loaded term, because it already assumes a creator and agency when it isn't necessary to explain biological phenomena.

 

[muichimotsu]

No, there is no evidence that the energy in the universe is alive. And the whole concept of all being one goes against most human experience which is that we are unique individuals and experience life as individuals and science has confirmed that.

Our perceptions are not absolute, you're continuing to assert things that cannot be proven, because humans are necessarily fallible and not possessing absolute knowledge to make such claims as if they're just self evident or common sense.

 

[dlamberth]

No, there is no evidence that the energy in the universe is alive. And the whole concept of all being one goes against most human experience which is that we are unique individuals and experience life as individuals and science has confirmed that.

My replies have been in response to your post #111 in pointing out that the Hindu image of God is much closer to Physics than is the Christian image of God. That's all.

As a Lover of God though, I'm unable to separate the Divine expression of Life Energy from the energy in the Universe that flows between worlds. That dynamic breath of Life-Force, as seen from the spiritual setting in which I sit, flows through the whole of the Cosmos.

 

[dlamberth]

As a Christian, God has revealed to us that while we have animal bodies we are qualitatively different from animals due to our full orbed personhood (image of God) which animals dont have. They have some partial aspects of personhood but they are not full persons. However, Both humans and animals are creatures, ie created beings, unlike the creator.

And...animals have Consciousness. Which really is what I believe it's all about, way less so than it is about our physical bodies.

 

[dlamberth]

When you run the BB backwards you come to a point with no dimensions, ie nothing.

That's not true.

 

[Ed1wolf]

It may point to a cause but how do you get from that cause to a god did it?

We have good evidence to believe that evolution created eyes, ears etc. What evidence do you have that a god created them?

Because purposes only come from Persons. Have you got an example of an impersonal process creating a purpose for something? I am not necessarily talking about the process that the person used (ie He may have used evolution), I am referring to the ultimate cause.

 

[Ed1wolf]

That evidence is provisional, we don't know that for certain, we can only observe so far, you're making a leap in logic and don't even necessarily seem to understand the theory entirely, it doesn't suggest that it's utter nothingness (which isn't really scientifically demonstrable), but that it's fundamentally different in terms of being a singularity and such

I didn't say we know for certain, but every day more evidence points in that direction. I would hardly call that a leap in logic. It is very simple basic logical reasoning, called the law of causality. I didn't say utter nothingness. God has said that it is just not detectable by humans, read Hebrews 11:3. This verse has been confirmed by science.

mm: A beginning absolutely /=/ a beginning as we observe it, if we're being remotely honest and humble in terms of our assessment of the evidence we observe

Most cosmologists believe it was the absolute beginning of space, time, and matter. But I am not saying we know with absolute certainty. It is one part of multiple lines of evidence for the existence of a personal Creator.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because purposes only come from Persons. Have you got an example of an impersonal process creating a purpose for something? I am not necessarily talking about the process that the person used (ie He may have used evolution), I am referring to the ultimate cause.

What purpose are you talking about?