Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
- Feb 21, 2012
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Yes. And I'll answer however I choose.
So what are you setting me up for? Or is this question itself just another joke?
Enough with the foreshadowing already, just ask it.
Until the question changes, my answer is in post #20.
This girl gets it...
I doubt she was the only one. I debated how many level's deep I wanted to go with Poe's Law, but quickly tired of the game.
Is there anything interesting going on in Lutheranism these days...like Czernobog worship or something?
I don't know what would be interesting to you. Confessional Lutherans see the role of the Church as very simple. So, we often find ourselves repeating that:
Does the church do this?
No. Our mission is simple.
Does the church do that?
No. Our mission is simple.
As a church we don't often get involved in politics, don't promote social gospel kinds of stuff, don't press to "advance" theology. Our mission is simple.
So, there's probably not much in the way of headline grabbers to interest you, though our President (Matthew Harrison) recently testified before Congress about the birth control provisions in ObamaCare.
Rejection of episcopacy, and congregational polity, is only true of some Lutherans.
It's called Luther's rose: Luther rose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I come from the Confessional branch of Lutherans, so I'll only address those beliefs. We are called Confessional because we still hold to (confess) the Book of Concord as the proper exposition (interpretation) of the Bible. The Book of Concord is what Luther and his followers put together to explain what they saw as the necessary reforms of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).
So, in that regard, you could say the unique thing about Lutherans is that we never intended to leave the RCC (while other reformers openly advocated for a break). Concord was simply a petition to the pope to reform the church, but since Luther was excommunicated as a result, they were forced to worship outside the RCC.
The Lutheran view, therefore (though I'm sure my RCC brothers would disagree) is that all we have done is remove what the RCC had added and changed over the years. In that regard, we are very similar to the RCC and maybe even more similar to the Orthodox Church. You will find many former Lutherans in the Orthodox Church and many former Orthodox in Lutheran churches. Some of the key differences are that we don't venerate Mary or pray to the Saints. Neither do we have an episcopal structure (pope, bishops, etc.) Rather, we have a congregational structure.
In terms of Calvinism and Arminianism, you could say we fall in between the two. We believe only God can call someone to faith, but we believe that call can be rejected - no double predestination or once-saved-always-saved.
I wouldn't say the sacraments (the Eucharist and Baptism) are "magical". Rather, they are two of the physical means by which God calls people to faith. People are always asking "blind faith" and "supernatural" questions ... How can you know God if there is no evidence? How can God interact with us if he's not physical? Stuff like that. The sacraments are 2 ways he physically interacts with us. There are others such as the Word and prayer. [edit] Oops. I goofed the first time and wrote "I would say the sacraments are magical" rather than "wouldn't".
So, we believe the water causes a change in a person when they are baptized.
And, similarly, we believe the bread and wine cause a change in a person - that Christ is physically present. Unlike the RCC we don't believe the bread and wine are body and blood, but rather that Christ is physically present during the sacrament.
As such, by taking the bread and wine we are "participating" in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 10:16). So, it's not that the Eucharist is cannibalism - that we're munching on someone's body - but that we're allowing the present Christ to physically change us. It's why we take St. Paul's warning so seriously (1 Corinthians 11:29).
You don't think it's dodgy to have yet another book that one can't question? If that is so.
I don't really know anything about the Orthodox Church, so that doesn't help me.
Can you see why someone like me might find it confusing though? I was a committed Christian, but I lost faith because I thought there wasn't enough evidence... not because I purposely rejected something I knew was God.
Well, I agree that the bread, wine, and water interact with us... but I'd be suspicious (even as a Christian) saying that the water touching us is God touching us.
I used to believe that someone can become a Christian before being baptised, and one can be baptised in the Holy Spirit before being baptised in water. So I don't know what this change is in water baptism.
If Christ physically changes you, what does that mean? Decreasing fat content?
Sometimes it's about trust rather than evidence ... even in science. On this forum I have asked: Have you actually been inside CERN and run the experiments yourself? If not, you're trusting those who have. The answer is: well, yeah, but theoretically I could run the experiments. OK. Theoretically God may speak directly to you someday. Until that happens you'll have to trust the Bible. I don't see the difference.
That's an interesting point. You do realize.there is a huge difference in trusting the claims of some scientist and the claims of the bible, don't you?
The obvious difference is the strings attached to the claims of the bible. If some CERN scientist makes some claims about the results of some experiment, he isn't going to say that I have to change anything about the way I live if I accept those claims. Conversely, if I accept the claims of the bible...there are tons of strings attached to the way I should live and act.
You can probably imagine that if a scientist were to make a claim that would affect the way I live (say for example, that I shouldn't vaccinate my children) suddenly I would want to investigate that claim as much as possible. I'd want to look at all the science behind it to the greatest extent I possibly can. That's just one change in my life...whether or not to vaccinate a child. The bible, however, wants to tell me all sorts of things from how I treat people, who I can marry, how I spend my time, how I treat my wife, etc etc etc. The sad part is...I'll never be able to investigate it anymore than I have. I've read it, there's no experiments to perform, no results to measure. I can listen to other interpretations, but that won't mean a whole lot unless I decide to choose which interpretation to believe based upon what suits me at the time (which seems hypocritical).
So maybe I'll never perform experiments with a supercollider, it affects my life none. It doesn't ask anything of me. Whether I believe the results or not, it matters almost none. What's more is since it asks nothing of me, I need not question the motives of those making the claims. The bible asks a great deal of me, so I must question the truth of it's claims and the motives of those making them.
Now, you could say that simple belief in a god, without christianity or any religion attached doesn't ask anything of me, or require any change in my life...so why not believe that? The obvious answer is, why believe it in the first place? Without any evidence...there's no reason.
Is the way the bible tells people to treat each other that off putting?
I could go on...
I'd want Resha's permission though, it's his thread and topic.
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