Ask a Complicated Ecumenical Existentialist Universalist Christian Stuff

[Davian]

What does it mean to you that I didn't respond?

I make every effort here not to presuppose what others think, or to make leading questions and statements. As a WAG, I would take it as an expression of cognitive dissonance.

I've said this very clearly to quatona before, because when his posts get really long (I also said the same to TillICollapse recently, I believe), it starts to feel less and less like fun responding and more like work. Do you have any justification that me voluntarily coming to a debate board should feel like work, or that I should be required to respond to every post regardless of how little relief or leisure I get from it?

I don't, yet you are here. Why, I do not know.

Or try this: given that nobody can respond to every single post they're implicitly solicited to respond to (do you do this?), then what is the criteria (a percentage will work fine) that a person should respond to posts by a specific poster and in general, or else he's avoiding things? How do you come to that number (by what reasoning)?

I dunno. I try not to miss any posts that I feel are soliciting a response from me, specifically.

And you seem to believe either that your posts would constitute a fair justification of my own beliefs in responding to them, or that (again) I'm required to justify my own beliefs to the point of it being no fun.

I cannot relate. I enjoy peeling back my beliefs, to see what is underneath. What have I to lose?

I know you don't come to this forum to just selflessly and trudgingly explain yourself in a dispassionate, hyper-reasonable way, Davian. You have dopamine receptors too.

lol. I don't think anyone would care to listen.

And I'm going on 12,000 posts in this forum, Davian. Give me a break.

No.

 

[Received]

I make every effort here not to presuppose what others think, or to make leading questions and statements. As a WAG, I would take it as an expression of cognitive dissonance.

So, if you don't presuppose, you're saying that all this motivation to consider my motivations is based in what again exactly?

I don't, yet you are here. Why, I do not know.

Because it doesn't feel like work. The reasoning isn't hard.

I dunno. I try not to miss any posts that I feel are soliciting a response from me, specifically.

Good, that's you. Do you think others should behave likewise? If so, why?

I cannot relate. I enjoy peeling back my beliefs, to see what is underneath. What have I to lose?

Your security? Unless you're Siddhartha Guatama, beliefs aren't divorced from emotion.

lol. I don't think anyone would care to listen.

To you?

No.

Where's the Wikipedia entry for "not being surprised"?

 

[Received]

There's no need to prove that which is visibly in action.

To the man with the screen.

 

[agua]

Removed after reading forums rules and regulations.

ops

 

[Received]

Removed after reading forums rules and regulations.

ops

Thanks for that. You have more control than I've shown on this thread.

 

[Davian]

So, if you don't presuppose, you're saying that all this motivation to consider my motivations is based in what again exactly?

I do not say that I do not presuppose, just that I try not to.

Because it doesn't feel like work. The reasoning isn't hard.

Not if you avoid the heavy lifting.

I come here because it *is* work; working within the rules, around the censors, where wide leeway is given to those promoting and preaching religious and anti-science positions. A night-and-day-difference from the other discussion boards I have been on.

Good, that's you. Do you think others should behave likewise? If so, why?

Courtesy, respect, closure, clarity, communication; better than leaving others to jump to conclusions. And, it costs little.

Your security? Unless you're Siddhartha Guatama, beliefs aren't divorced from emotion.

What security? What do you think I believe, where that might apply?

To you?

Indeed.

Where's the Wikipedia entry for "not being surprised"?

How dull would a philosophy forum be where ideas and beliefs went unchallenged?

 

[Received]

I do not say that I do not presuppose, just that I try not to.

Not if you avoid the heavy lifting.

I come here because it *is* work; working within the rules, around the censors, where wide leeway is given to those promoting and preaching religious and anti-science positions. A night-and-day-difference from the other discussion boards I have been on.

Okay, it's work for you, which I totally dig and respect. Does that mean others should consider it work?

I'll tell ya: I've been down the road where it was hard work, because I took things way too seriously: got worked up with responses by members, would spend literally hours responding to posts, and would respond to every single post I could (partly because I equated not responding with "losing"). I even remember one time where my stress level was so markedly up by reading a long and detailed challenge to my beliefs years ago that I recalled feeling healthy just before reading it and was with a small cold an hour later after reading and responding. That was then. Now I'm much happier. That's me.

Courtesy, respect, closure, clarity, communication; better than leaving others to jump to conclusions. And, it costs little.

If other people jump to conclusions, do you think that's on the responsibility of the person with whom they're debating? Why or why not?

What security? What do you think I believe, where that might apply?

I'm just saying that we're psychologically such that there's no such thing as a belief without an emotional charge. That's actually what likely keeps our beliefs beliefs: the emotional conditioning that goes with them, for better or worse. Therefore, no, it's not the case that you always or mostly or even part of the time lose nothing by changing your beliefs. Beliefs are difficult to change because we're all emotionally connected with them to varying degrees. Changing them involves pain.

How dull would a philosophy forum be where ideas and beliefs went unchallenged?

It wouldn't be a philosophy forum. I don't think the problem we're discussing is on beliefs being challenged, but the timeline and response rate for your interlocutor in responding to your challenges.

 

[Davian]

Okay, it's work for you, which I totally dig and respect. Does that mean others should consider it work?

I think others should consider this a philosophy forum, and all that it should entail.

I'll tell ya: I've been down the road where it was hard work, because I took things way too seriously: got worked up with responses by members, would spend literally hours responding to posts, and would respond to every single post I could (partly because I equated not responding with "losing"). I even remember one time where my stress level was so markedly up by reading a long and detailed challenge to my beliefs years ago that I recalled feeling healthy just before reading it and was with a small cold an hour later after reading and responding. That was then. Now I'm much happier. That's me.


If other people jump to conclusions, do you think that's on the responsibility of the person with whom they're debating? Why or why not?

That jump - that decision of what to believe - is not usually a conscious choice. While you may have no responsibility for it, you do affect it.

I'm just saying that we're psychologically such that there's no such thing as a belief without an emotional charge. That's actually what likely keeps our beliefs beliefs: the emotional conditioning that goes with them, for better or worse. Therefore, no, it's not the case that you always or mostly or even part of the time lose nothing by changing your beliefs. Beliefs are difficult to change because we're all emotionally connected with them to varying degrees. Changing them involves pain.

Indeed. However, I will forgo that 'security', and endure that pain, in the pursuit of understanding. Leave no stone unturned, and all that.

It wouldn't be a philosophy forum. I don't think the problem we're discussing is on beliefs being challenged, but the timeline and response rate for your interlocutor in responding to your challenges.

Sure. How far away in the future is indicated by "Outside at a coffee shop with beautiful weather and no computer"?

 

[agua]

Thanks for that. You have more control than I've shown on this thread.

Received I'd like to suggest that we accept Peter's words; 1Peter2:12 and 1Peter3:16 so as to not misrepresent Jesus, even when it's very difficult like online forums

 

[BL2KTN]

I come here because it *is* work; working within the rules, around the censors, where wide leeway is given to those promoting and preaching religious and anti-science positions. A night-and-day-difference from the other discussion boards I have been on.

How dull would a philosophy forum be where ideas and beliefs went unchallenged?

Let's just say I've been dormant in this thread lately for reasons "atypical" - i.e. not a coffee shop.

 

[Received]

Davian, I super appreciate you taking the time to respond to this. It means a lot to me. I know we have fun jabs at one another, but this makes me more confident that we're "frenemies" at most.

BTW, I've been swamped this week and chose this post first; I still have you in mind for the other thread.

I think others should consider this a philosophy forum, and all that it should entail.

And philosophy can be done as leisure or as work, so again: who's to say that others should consider, like you, that it's work and not leisure (and if leisure, there's no responsibility for the poster to respond to even most posts in general)?

That jump - that decision of what to believe - is not usually a conscious choice. While you may have no responsibility for it, you do affect it.

My point: if other people jump to conclusions, that's not the fault of the person with whom they're jumping to conclusions about.

Indeed. However, I will forgo that 'security', and endure that pain, in the pursuit of understanding. Leave no stone unturned, and all that.

I agree that we should leave no stone unturned (including our inclination to not leave stones unturned), but I respectfully disagree that this means you don't have an ethical responsibility to consider how the person hearing your message is being affected emotionally. I.e., we're responsible for *how* we leave no stones unturned, not just that we do so.

Sure. How far away in the future is indicated by "Outside at a coffee shop with beautiful weather and no computer"?

No future is indicated because I have no responsibility, given this site is leisure time for me, to respond to any of your posts. Unless you make it clear (and I've asked you a few posts back which posts you'd really like me to respond to without an answer) which posts are most meaningful to you -- then I'd be responsible for at least giving you a reason as to why I'm not responding, and/or respond. Otherwise I can enjoy my coffee in the sun, because I have no obligation to respond to anything, and thank God I have this freedom, because I remember what it was like years ago on this site to feel like I should respond to everything, and how exhausted and agitated I became.

 

[agua]

...I can enjoy my coffee in the sun, because I have no obligation to respond to anything, and thank God I have this freedom, because I remember what it was like years ago on this site to feel like I should respond to everything, and how exhausted and agitated I became.

In saying this Received I'd like to make a small experiment if that's ok.

How did the gecko cross the road ?

I now enjoy my coffee black with no additives.

 

[quatona]

Otherwise I can enjoy my coffee in the sun, because I have no obligation to respond to anything, and thank God I have this freedom, because I remember what it was like years ago on this site to feel like I should respond to everything, and how exhausted and agitated I became.

I can empathize.
However, for a person with this attitude I wouldn´t find it exactly advisable to open a thread called "Ask me...", just to refer to this very attitude when inconvenient questions are asked.
Sounds like a mixed message to me.

 

[quatona]

How did the gecko cross the road ?

From West to East.

 

[agua]

From West to East.

Actually this is correct ! ; but lacking a vital piece of information.

 

[quatona]

Actually this is correct ! ; but lacking a vital piece of information.

What do you mean - "vital"?
And why didn´t you give this piece of "vital information", in the first place?

 

[agua]

quatona

What do you mean - "vital"?
And why didn´t you give this piece of "vital information", in the first place?

I must apologize Quantona because I didn't clarify that this is a joke. If I give you the punchline first it will spoil it.

So yes the gecko crossed the road from west to east but how ? After this we move to why

 

[quatona]

I must apologize Quantona because I didn't clarify that this is a joke. If I give you the punchline first it will spoil it.

So yes the gecko crossed the road from west to east but how ? After this we move to why

If the point of this question is to demonstrate that "how?" and "why?" are unspecific questions that allow the questioner to point out that a given response hasn´t given the specific kind of answer he had in mind (but forgot to mention), I am all with you (but admittedly a little bored of this game).

So I guess I´ll wait for the spoiler.

 

[agua]

quatona

If the point of this question is to demonstrate that "how?" and "why?" are unspecific questions that allow the questioner to point out that a given response hasn´t given the specific kind of answer he had in mind (but forgot to mention), I am all with you (but admittedly a little bored of this game).

So I guess I´ll wait for the spoiler.

There is absolutely no point to this joke, at all. If you don't enjoy jokes etc that's ok I wont bore you. I'll wait for Received's interest, if he has any, which is why I asked him " How did the gecko cross the road.". post count dwindling, again

 

[BL2KTN]

I can empathize.
However, for a person with this attitude I wouldn´t find it exactly advisable to open a thread called "Ask me...", just to refer to this very attitude when inconvenient questions are asked.
Sounds like a mixed message to me.

.