Ask a Christian...

[rockytopva]

What did you use to get a concept of what "knowledge", "phenomena" and an "intuition" is, other than your brain?

There are other forces in the universe besides knowledge and mass. Especially that of spiritual motive. If we were visited by aliens, for example, our first wonder is why they are here.... Are the motives good? Or, like Ghangis Khan, are we considered a waste of good horse pasture?

 

[Non sequitur]

Well I sort of go by both. Most of me goes by faith, but if I have evidence to back something up I go by that to in terms of being a christian. Such as my big bang thing.

But I also use science to often back up my point that it is not always correct. When I see science is always changing its views on things throughout history, I say its obvious that man is not perfect and therefor science cannot be perfect in everything it claims. Such as the big bang. No one was around to see it, so its just theories about it happening. I mean they often use "Well if you look at X, Y and Z, you can see evidence of a big bang!". But that never convinces me of anything. Like recently with the gravity waves thing, they sound it may change how we look at things (yet again).

Not saying I don't trust science. Alot of what science says is true. Shoot a arrow up in the air, it will come down. Crash your car at 100mph into something, your body continues to travel at that speed even if the car stopped. Heck computers are good at showing what science comes up with (more or less).

To a non-christian we christians can seem illogical. How can we say the earth is 7,000 years old despite the fact science says otherwise. Seems to go against logic. But to be fair the reverse could also be said. For example I see where God has lead me in life and realize it wasn't luck or fate that brought made me who I am. It was Him. I mean I have the steering wheel, but Hes like my GPS that helps me make the right turns. If I miss a turn He tries to reroute me back to a better path.

So on my end I see lots of evidence in favor of God. Just as on the other side they see lots of evidence that God does not exist. Though most admit they can't 100% prove it simply because its impossible to do if God is lets say in another dimension that we cannot see for example.

Well, it is illogical.

If you the only input you ever got was from a TV (your brain), you couldn't logically say that what beliefs/opinions you have formed are inline with reality. Logically, you would not be able to determine or speak on what reality is.

 

[Non sequitur]

There are other forces in the universe besides knowledge and mass. Especially that of spiritual motive. If we were visited by aliens, for example, our first wonder is why they are here.... Are the motives good? Or, like Ghangis Khan, are we considered a waste of good horse pasture?

Where'd you get that idea about other forces?

 

[rockytopva]

Where'd you get that idea about other forces?

Here is a kitten I am raising. There are other forces besides this creatures intelligence that makes him worth keeping. Spiritual virtues such as companionship, friendship, fun, play, warmth, love, joy,and the like.

 

[Non sequitur]

Here is a kitten I am raising. There are other forces besides this creatures intelligence that makes him worth keeping. Spiritual virtues such as companionship, friendship, fun, play, warmth, love, joy,and the like.

I clearly see that you believe those things and understand you have imbued them with definitions, etc.

You didn't answer the question.

Where did you get the idea of those things?

 

[rockytopva]

I clearly see that you believe those things and understand you have imbued them with definitions, etc.

You didn't answer the question.

Where did you get the idea of those things?

If... E = mc2 ...

Then m (matter) = E/c2 (plasma energy)

I work as a Lab Technician at a large factory. In operating spectrometers each atom produces a unique wavelength when energized, in which we can measure the wavelength and come up with a concentration. In operating spectrometer I am measuring things made up of energy and light. And there is also a spiritual and intellectual as well. The Crab Nebula was once a star that has went Supernova, basically turning into the energy and light from which it was created.

 

[rockytopva]

If... E = mc2 ...

Then m (matter) = E/c2 (plasma energy)

I work as a Lab Technician at a large factory. In operating spectrometers each atom produces a unique wavelength when energized, in which we can measure the wavelength and come up with a concentration. In operating spectrometer I am measuring things made up of energy and light. And there is also a spiritual and intellectual as well. The Crab Nebula was once a star that has went Supernova, basically turning into the energy and light from which it was created.

Focusing in on the blank space has led science to conclude that there are not 200 billion galaxies as previously thought, but more like 2 trillion. And who know how many more as we focus in yet more?

Hubble Finds 10 Times More Galaxies Than Thought

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

Mass heats into plasma...
Plasma cools back into mass.... And very soon the trillions of galaxies will turn back into plasma energy...

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

This will be such an incredible event that Peter repeats himself...

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12

I want to be around to see what the Father does with all that light and energy! He will have energy and light trillions of light years in space to recreate with!

 

[rockytopva]

Focusing in on the blank space has led science to conclude that there are not 200 billion galaxies as previously thought, but more like 2 trillion. And who know how many more as we focus in yet more?

Hubble Finds 10 Times More Galaxies Than Thought

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

Mass heats into plasma...
Plasma cools back into mass.... And very soon the trillions of galaxies will turn back into plasma energy...

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

This will be such an incredible event that Peter repeats himself...

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12

I want to be around to see what the Father does with all that light and energy! He will have energy and light trillions of light years in space to recreate with!

Our spirit can also emit an energy and light that can be measured in wavelengths...

 

[Non sequitur]

If... E = mc2 ...

Then m (matter) = E/c2 (plasma energy)

I work as a Lab Technician at a large factory. In operating spectrometers each atom produces a unique wavelength when energized, in which we can measure the wavelength and come up with a concentration. In operating spectrometer I am measuring things made up of energy and light. And there is also a spiritual and intellectual as well. The Crab Nebula was once a star that has went Supernova, basically turning into the energy and light from which it was created.

Are you not able to answer my question or do you not want to?

I'd rather not have this conversation, if you won't. It's pointless.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well, it is illogical.

If you the only input you ever got was from a TV (your brain), you couldn't logically say that what beliefs/opinions you have formed are inline with reality. Logically, you would not be able to determine or speak on what reality is.

True, but its just how it is for various groups of people. Some listen to what they consider right instead of listening to what logic would say.

I mean technically speaking no one can say God doesn't exist because logically since Hes all powerful, all knowing...etc theres a possibility Hes beyond out understanding and vision. Which is why sometimes non-believers who say science says Hes not real aren't being logical neither.

 

[Acts2:38]

There is no evidence that confirms nor denies non-life can create life. Since we can't list the things/ways that non-life could create life (unknowns), it does us no good (and seems illogical) to hold a belief about the possibility of conclusions drawn from it.

Hello and thank you for your response.

Throughout the centuries, man has been trying to prove that non life can create life. All the science at their disposal and they, with all the elements known to us on this planet, cannot create the scenario that dead matter can create living matter. This is in fact that very evidence that you say doesn't exist.

On top of that, the supposed millions or billions of years evolutionists claim the earth has been around, yet not once in all history man has recorded, has there ever been something living that just came to existence from something that was not living. Further more, if this did happen during any such time were man was around, one should have been able to recreate said event. Alas, no one has been able to. Men have been trying to prove this for centuries that dead matter can create living matter to no avail. Yet, those very same men agree in the law of Causality, law of biogenesis, 1st and 2nd laws of Thermodynamics. In addition to those laws, using the "scientific method" basically in a nutshell, a person would have to be a God in order to say that God doesn't exist.

What are some of those things that rule in favor, as opposed to accepting it as an option, of a supreme being?

I refer back to my previous post, the part about the laws of Causality etc. and biblical historical accuracy, the bible with no contradictions even in the face of centuries of separation between authors and such. All that in my previous post.

Anyhow, I must go for now. Great thread discussion and thank you for your replies and kind civil tone. I bid you a wonderful rest of the day.

 

[ViaCrucis]

... is what I'm doing.

(Clickbait for the win!)

One of the things I've always found puzzling is the acceptance of deities (more specifically, theism).

Since information (methods of perception, etc.) starts at our brains, everything after that is a conclusion drawn from said information.

Even me saying that, and you thinking about it, did.

Here are a few things I would say everyone would have to presuppose, in order to even have the conversation. If you disagree, please explain why:

1) Stating any preexisting truths, facts or exclusions, first came from your brain.
2) Superimposing something is comes from your brain.
3) You can't "know" something, prior to being aware of it, and if you are, you are making unsubstantiated claims.
4) Referencing something, after the fact, is of little value since you've already arrived at your position.
5) Issues ("how do you know what you know?", etc) do not offer any solutions, but create problems outside the framework we are dealing with. Talking about what we don't/can't know gets us no closer to an answer of a question. Unanswerable questions are useless.

Seeing as how this poses a circular problem, as far as a truth goes, any positive position arrived at is equally possible as any other.

How is it possible that a Christian belief can be held as truth, given this?

I'm not sure how your question follows; possibly I'm just not understanding it.

It seems you're asking that if all thoughts arise from our brain, which takes in information from the outside world in order to process thoughts, how can a Christian belief be held as true. I'm clearly missing something here because it seems completely non-sequitur, no pun intended.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Soyeong]

... is what I'm doing.

(Clickbait for the win!)

One of the things I've always found puzzling is the acceptance of deities (more specifically, theism).

Since information (methods of perception, etc.) starts at our brains, everything after that is a conclusion drawn from said information.

Even me saying that, and you thinking about it, did.

Here are a few things I would say everyone would have to presuppose, in order to even have the conversation. If you disagree, please explain why:

1) Stating any preexisting truths, facts or exclusions, first came from your brain.
2) Superimposing something is comes from your brain.
3) You can't "know" something, prior to being aware of it, and if you are, you are making unsubstantiated claims.
4) Referencing something, after the fact, is of little value since you've already arrived at your position.
5) Issues ("how do you know what you know?", etc) do not offer any solutions, but create problems outside the framework we are dealing with. Talking about what we don't/can't know gets us no closer to an answer of a question. Unanswerable questions are useless.

Seeing as how this poses a circular problem, as far as a truth goes, any positive position arrived at is equally possible as any other.

How is it possible that a Christian belief can be held as truth, given this?

I think you might find this video to be interesting:

 

[Tolworth John]

) Stating any preexisting truths, facts or exclusions, first came from your brain

Why should I start with this presuposition?

To believe this is true means believing that reality is determined by ones mind.
That we experience sensations that do not come solely from our mind, but from outside sources shows that this is false.

Even if it where true apply it to atheism what evedence is there that atheism is true under these conditions?

 

[Halbhh]

"Theism" is merely an abstraction.

But --

"Love your neighbor as yourself"

Is not merely one of dozens of possibly workable philosophies, but instead (surprisingly) the only solution that works in the long run for us. The only one that doesn't just lead over time to war.

So, it's 'true': it's the only good way to live, the only one that doesn't end up in more evils.

The only one.

This kind of understanding comes from a profoundly humble honesty, where you can throw out all your grand philosophies suddenly because you are in that place of really searching for what is true.

 

[bling]

... is what I'm doing.

(Clickbait for the win!)

One of the things I've always found puzzling is the acceptance of deities (more specifically, theism).

Since information (methods of perception, etc.) starts at our brains, everything after that is a conclusion drawn from said information.

Even me saying that, and you thinking about it, did.

Here are a few things I would say everyone would have to presuppose, in order to even have the conversation. If you disagree, please explain why:

1) Stating any preexisting truths, facts or exclusions, first came from your brain.
2) Superimposing something is comes from your brain.
3) You can't "know" something, prior to being aware of it, and if you are, you are making unsubstantiated claims.
4) Referencing something, after the fact, is of little value since you've already arrived at your position.
5) Issues ("how do you know what you know?", etc) do not offer any solutions, but create problems outside the framework we are dealing with. Talking about what we don't/can't know gets us no closer to an answer of a question. Unanswerable questions are useless.

Seeing as how this poses a circular problem, as far as a truth goes, any positive position arrived at is equally possible as any other.

How is it possible that a Christian belief can be held as truth, given this?

You say: “Unanswerable questions are useless.”

God is an answer to these “Unanswerable questions”, but that does not mean there is not another alternative answer.

We know life exists, but do not know how it would even be possible to go from just chemical reactions to life, yet God would be a possibility to make that happen.

We know: the more we know the more we realize we do not know making everything increasingly complex and increasingly harder to conceive of a mechanism to randomly produce the desired complex results.

Unless you redefine “nothing” as being something, nothing comes from nothing and something cannot come from nothing, so something has always existed. If something has always had to exist why would that something not include intelligence since there is intelligence in existence?

 

[Non sequitur]

True, but its just how it is for various groups of people. Some listen to what they consider right instead of listening to what logic would say.

I mean technically speaking no one can say God doesn't exist because logically since Hes all powerful, all knowing...etc theres a possibility Hes beyond out understanding and vision. Which is why sometimes non-believers who say science says Hes not real aren't being logical neither.

That's strange some would do things illogically. Seems like there would be constant inner conflict.

Agreed. I dont know how some say definitively say there isn't.

 

[Non sequitur]

I'm not sure how your question follows; possibly I'm just not understanding it.

It seems you're asking that if all thoughts arise from our brain, which takes in information from the outside world in order to process thoughts, how can a Christian belief be held as true. I'm clearly missing something here because it seems completely non-sequitur, no pun intended.

-CryptoLutheran

You appear to have restated it correctly. I can see how you could arrive there, but not how one could be sure (to the extent they are).

Like with sceince, i think it can only take things so far. Anything after that is on a sliding scale. But never a "truth", as Christian seems to claim

 

[Non sequitur]

I think you might find this video to be interesting:

Not sure what that has to do with my question.

 

[Non sequitur]

Why should I start with this presuposition?

To believe this is true means believing that reality is determined by ones mind.
That we experience sensations that do not come solely from our mind, but from outside sources shows that this is false.

Even if it where true apply it to atheism what evedence is there that atheism is true under these conditions?

Not sure where else you would start.

What sensations do you experience that do not come from your mind, but outside sources, that are not interpreted by your mind?