Ash Wednesday

[PaladinValer]

When did the tradition of imposing ashes begin? Is it Biblical? My teenaged daughter, who I would say may be more devout than I am, refused ashes last night. She said it seemed cultish to her. She did participate in communion after. I wanted to discuss the imposition of ashes with her more, but I realized I didn't have enough knowledge.

It is absolutely Biblical: see Genesis 3:19.

Ashes remind us of our mortality.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

Thank you to those of you who have pointed me to Bible verses.

There is nothing cultish about this.

I did not say it was.

I'd personally say that there's something's fishy here if we're then supposed to go around with a visible sign telling the world we're fasting.

It does seem contradictory, but perhaps this is about avoiding visible suffering through our fasting which is different from proclaiming that we are Christians.

 

[PaladinValer]

I was always struck by the irony that before the imposition of the ashes, the BCP calls for this Gospel reading:

“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
(Matthew 6:16-18 ESV)
​

I'd personally say that there's something's fishy here if we're then supposed to go around with a visible sign telling the world we're fasting.

Ashes do not disfigure the face in the way Jesus is talking about. He's talking about physically making themselves look bad; contorting their face, not actually putting something on it. Otherwise, He'd not mention oil, for oil would have been perfumed and people would have been able to know by that alone.

You also forget that the hypocrites are so because they show nothing but outward piety while doing nothing for the naked, the hungry, the poor, the widows, and the orphans. The OT reading for Ash Wednesday makes this very plain.

As a possibly interesting side note, the Eastern Orthodox don't use ashes, but instead are anointed with oil to start the fast. When it comes to regular institutionalized fasting, I think the East may have the Biblical edge here.

Both are fine. In the West, we have ashes, which is also a powerful symbol. The use of oil is probably because Lent was the time of preparation of catechumens. The Oil of the Catechumens is used among very traditional Christians still, so that makes sense. However, I personally believe ashes are the better symbol for those who are not catechumens.

It does seem contradictory, but perhaps this is about avoiding visible suffering through our fasting which is different from proclaiming that we are Christians.

This is a very good interpretation. Oil and ashes do not show suffering; they are symbols of what is going on inside. If we make our fasting known through our behaviors and actions, then we are failing to fast as Jesus commands. Discipline is the name of the game for Lent. To conquer oneself and one's appetites and vanities.

 

[ThePilgrim]

As a possibly interesting side note, the Eastern Orthodox don't use ashes, but instead are anointed with oil to start the fast.

We are? When?

In Christ,
Fr. John

 

[lux et lex]

I went to Mass with a coworker over lunch (I haven't made it to the Anglican church in town yet...it's on my Lenten to-do list) and we both left ashes on the rest of the day. Minus one coworker who was quite confused, (Him: "Uh...you have something on your head" Me: "I know" Him: "...OH NO it's Ash Wednesday....I totally spaced...) I didn't really worry about it. I'm recently back into Christianity more seriously, and it was a good reminder for me about Jesus and His sacrifice.

 

[Catherineanne]

I was always struck by the irony that before the imposition of the ashes, the BCP calls for this Gospel reading:

“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
(Matthew 6:16-18 ESV)
​

I'd personally say that there's something's fishy here if we're then supposed to go around with a visible sign telling the world we're fasting.

Well, that is up to you. I don't judge other people's spirituality, or how they choose to express it. I have asked for opinions and personal experiences on this thread, not judgements of other people.

As a possibly interesting side note, the Eastern Orthodox don't use ashes, but instead are anointed with oil to start the fast. When it comes to regular institutionalized fasting, I think the East may have the Biblical edge here.

As far as I am aware the ash from the Palm crosses is mixed with a little water, as well as with Chrism (anointing oil.) If it were only water it would go all over the place.

The Othodox Church certainly uses anointing oils at certain times, but so does the Roman and Anglican church. However, I am not familiar enough with Orthodox practices to say how they begin Lent.

 

[file13]

We are? When?

In Christ,
Fr. John

I was under the assumption it was the norm in the Slavic Tradition of Forgiveness Vespers which kicks off the Great Fast. If this is not the norm in that tradition, then the late Archbishop Dmitri did it at St. Seraphim's abnormally.

 

[file13]

Ashes do not disfigure the face in the way Jesus is talking about. He's talking about physically making themselves look bad; contorting their face, not actually putting something on it. Otherwise, He'd not mention oil, for oil would have been perfumed and people would have been able to know by that alone.

If you say so.

Well, that is up to you. I don't judge other people's spirituality, or how they choose to express it. I have asked for opinions and personal experiences on this thread, not judgements of other people.

I understand. I was just giving you my experience. You're welcome to disregard it as I'm not going to argue with you.

 

[ThePilgrim]

I was under the assumption it was the norm in the Slavic Tradition of Forgiveness Vespers which kicks off the Great Fast. If this is not the norm in that tradition, then the late Archbishop Dmitri did it at St. Seraphim's abnormally.

It's not in the rubrics. He must have just wanted to do that as a nice way of starting off the Fast.

-Fr. John

 

[elahmine]

When it comes to ashes if it stays on it stays on if it doesn't it doesn't. I don't wipe them off unless I happen to need a shower, but for example I served at the 6AM mass. I had to change out of robes, go back home, and then change my clothes to something for school. So, the ashes were all gone a few hours later. I prefer they stay on. It's not like I'm trying to look extra devout or make myself look sick so people know I'm fasting. It is an outward sign of what I am. Dust. Mortal. You get the picture?