As It Was In The Days Of Sodom...

brightmorningstar · Sep 30, 2008

To KCKID,

It's not God that I'm talking about. It's people and their interpretations of the scriptures that I'm talking about.

Its nothing to do with interpretation, You understood the God bit in ‘God is the same yesterday today and forever’ so its not about interpretation but what the texts say. What was posted was scripture
Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” The same as all the other scripture posted such as Romans 1, you have no trouble with scripture you personally agree with but object and dispute that scripture which is adverse to homosexuality.
It is nothing to do with interpretation to many of us, but your disbelief in what the texts say.

By the way, I know it's a popular Christian catch-cry that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But a catch-cry is all it is.

Then that’s more scripture you don’t really believe. We believe, and I am sure I can speak for Dogbean as I see he has the Holy Spirit, we believe that the Bible is the word of God, Jesus said His words are Spirit and life, what we see as the word of God and life you obviously see as a mere religious catch-cry. Christians believe the Biblical testimony is the 'word' of God.

KCKID · Sep 30, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To KCKID,
Its nothing to do with interpretation, You understood the God bit in God is the same yesterday today and forever so its not about interpretation but what the texts say. What was posted was scripture
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. The same as all the other scripture posted such as Romans 1, you have no trouble with scripture you personally agree with but object and dispute that scripture which is adverse to homosexuality.
It is nothing to do with interpretation to many of us, but your disbelief in what the texts say.

Then thats more scripture you dont really believe. We believe, and I am sure I can speak for Dogbean as I see he has the Holy Spirit, we believe that the Bible is the word of God, Jesus said His words are Spirit and life, what we see as the word of God and life you obviously see as a mere religious catch-cry. Christians believe the Biblical testimony is the 'word' of God.

I like that. Evidently all who agree with you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them!

I don't know how true this is ...maybe you can verify. Apparently all who have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them are surrounded by a blue aura when photographed. Just wondering how true that is.

brightmorningstar · Sep 30, 2008

To KCKID,

I like that. Evidently all who agree with you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them!

No, you have neither read properly what I wrote nor the Bible. All who agree with the Bible indicates they have the Holy Spirit in them;
John 14:26 “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
But even believing isn’t what makes disciples, even the demons believed in Jesus and His words, James 2:19, Matthew 8:29, what makes disciples of Jesus is to believe and do what He says. John 14:21-24

As I said its nothing to do with interpretation, Jesus said to do what he said not to do what they interpret Him saying. And if you see the scripture as merely a Christian catch-cry you obviously don’t see it as the word of God. Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever means we can trust His promises and we can trust that the truth way and life He brought and taught doesn’t change.

KCKID · Sep 30, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To KCKID,
No, you have neither read properly what I wrote nor the Bible. All who agree with the Bible indicates they have the Holy Spirit in them;
John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
But even believing isnt what makes disciples, even the demons believed in Jesus and His words, James 2:19, Matthew 8:29, what makes disciples of Jesus is to believe and do what He says. John 14:21-24

As I said its nothing to do with interpretation, Jesus said to do what he said not to do what they interpret Him saying. And if you see the scripture as merely a Christian catch-cry you obviously dont see it as the word of God. Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever means we can trust His promises and we can trust that the truth way and life He brought and taught doesnt change.

So, since Jesus taught nothing against homosexuality I guess His silence on the issue is also for yesterday, today, and forever? Well ...okay.

brightmorningstar · Sep 30, 2008

To KCKID,

So, since Jesus taught nothing against homosexuality I guess His silence on the issue is also for yesterday, today, and forever? Well ...okay.

On the contrary, since He did teach against homosexuality I guess His words remain true yesterday today and forever.

If you addressed my question it might stop you merely repeating the same mistake.
Romans 1 26 “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Is that heterosexuality or homosexuality?

KCKID · Sep 30, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To KCKID,
On the contrary, since He did teach against homosexuality I guess His words remain true yesterday today and forever.

If you addressed my question it might stop you merely repeating the same mistake.
Romans 1 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Is that heterosexuality or homosexuality?

Whoops, sorry. It was always my impression that Paul wrote Romans.

By the way, Paul was no more Jesus than you and I are.

brightmorningstar · Sep 30, 2008

To KCKID,

Whoops, sorry. It was always my impression that Paul wrote Romans.

By the way, Paul was no more Jesus than you and I are.

oops I am not aware that Jesus wrote any of the NT; neither were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude or the writer of Hebrews, Jesus.
But Paul wrote that he received his revelation not from man but from the risen Lord, (Galatians,1) so as you don’t believe it, it probably doesn’t matter to you who wrote it.
By the way I have backed up all my statements with scripture, all you have done is dispute it all.

jamielindas · Sep 30, 2008

Remind me at which part Jesus (not paul) taught against homosexuality?

Dogbean · Sep 30, 2008

KCKID said:
Whoops, sorry. It was always my impression that Paul wrote Romans.

By the way, Paul was no more Jesus than you and I are.

But Paul was an apostle, which was one of the requirements for NT scripture. An apostle is a person who physically saw the risen Christ.

brightmorningstar · Oct 1, 2008

To jamielindas

Remind me at which part Jesus (not paul) taught against homosexuality?

You mean apart from what you have been shown already?

By the way, when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickeness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality?

jamielindas · Oct 1, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To jamielindas
You mean apart from what you have been shown already?

Yes... I don't think I've seen anything from the 4 gospels yet. I saw some Paul stuff... unless I missed it, then forgive me. If you could go over it again, that would be great.

By the way, when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickeness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality?

Other than a the textual evidence you mention... any real world evidence for its evil?

brightmorningstar · Oct 2, 2008

To jamielindas

Yes... I don't think I've seen anything from the 4 gospels yet. I saw some Paul stuff... unless I missed it, then forgive me. If you could go over it again, that would be great.

If you read the chapters cited in post #51

By the way, when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickeness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality?

Other than a the textual evidence you mention... any real world evidence for its evil?

The question was when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality? Answer that and I will gladly give worldly evidence.

jamielindas · Oct 2, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To jamielindas
If you read the chapters cited in post #51

By the way, when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickeness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality?
The question was when God created woman for man for this reason that a man shall be united with his wife, how can that not be against homosexuality? When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality? Answer that and I will gladly give worldly evidence.

hum... thanks for the repeat...
Just because something is intended or suited best for one task/activity, doesn't mean it is against something else.

The internet was originally for sharing education/research results... but now we use it for forum, games, chatting, shopping etc.... if it was only intended for sharing between education and research institutions, does that mean the internet or the designers of the internet are against games, shopping or forums?

The conclusion you jump to is a false dichotomy... being for one thing, doesn't make you automatically against something else. It is a logical fallacy.

tell me... if you can provide me with any direct evidence (secular, practical, or non-scripture based) or reason that homosexuality is harmful to an individual or a society?

Additionally,
Can you provide me with evidence that homosexuality is worse than all of the other sins listed in the Bible that humans commit on a day to day basis?

brightmorningstar · Oct 3, 2008

To jamielindas,

hum... thanks for the repeat...

Click to expand...

I repeated it the question because you asked me another before answering mine.

Just because something is intended or suited best for one task/activity, doesn't mean it is against something else.

Click to expand...

Yes it does, answering my question shows it does. What is men lusting after men as opposed to women? Is it homosexual, or heterosexual or bisexual? If its homosexual, as it surely must be according to the dictionary, then homosexuality is being described as error and indecent.

EnemyPartyII · Oct 3, 2008

its homosexual, as it surely must be according to the dictionary,

That far made sense... and then

then homosexuality is being described as error and indecent.

you went off the rails.

Tell me... does "logical progression" or "causal" mean anything to you, or are you just sort of happy making stuff up as you go along?

brightmorningstar · Oct 3, 2008

To EnemyPartyII,

its homosexual, as it surely must be according to the dictionary,

Click to expand...

That far made sense... and then
then homosexuality is being described as error and indecent.
you went off the rails.

Rather you suddenly left reality behind.
If the Bible describes the dictionary definition of homosexual practice as indecent and error, how does it not describe the dictionary definition of homosexual practice as indecent and error?
Sorry once again I think your argument is just an inability to accept what is reality.

EnemyPartyII · Oct 3, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To EnemyPartyII,

Rather you suddenly left reality behind.
If the Bible describes the dictionary definition of homosexual practice as indecent and error, how does it not describe the dictionary definition of homosexual practice as indecent and error?
Sorry once again I think your argument is just an inability to accept what is reality.

Where does the Bible describe the dictionary definition of anything, let alone homosexual practice?

brightmorningstar · Oct 3, 2008

To enemyPartyII

Where does the Bible describe the dictionary definition of anything, let alone homosexual practice?

In my post #51. Romans 1 does for a start.
Answer the question and see.
When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality? Answer that and I will gladly give worldly evidence.

OllieFranz · Oct 3, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To enemyPartyII
In my post #51. Romans 1 does for a start.
Answer the question and see.
When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality? Answer that and I will gladly give worldly evidence.

When men lusting after women and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against heterosexuality? Answer that.

Being against wicked acts that happen to be heterosexual is not the same as being against all heterosexuality. Likewise, being against wicked acts that happen to be homosexual is not the same as being against all homosexuality.

There is no verse condemning a "homosexual act" where the Bible would not condemn exactly the same act were one of the participants the opposite sex, with the possible exception of rape.

EnemyPartyII · Oct 4, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To enemyPartyII
In my post #51. Romans 1 does for a start.
Answer the question and see.
When men lusting after men and committing indecent acts with them is godlessness, wickedness and error, how can it not be against homosexuality? Answer that and I will gladly give worldly evidence.

What Ollie said.

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