As It Was In The Days Of Sodom...

[Dogbean]

My lifestyle is the same as yours... I'm in a long term committed partnership, and I'm in the military. Whats to defend?

But other illogical Bible teachings? Well, theres all that Creation stuff for a start, then there are the contradictions, and the injustices, not to mention the bit that calls for the stoning of rape victims... you want specifics?

And I don't like your similie at all.

From MY perspective, YOU are only using the gun... (being the Bible) without the bullets (being logical meditation and academic study)

Then it sounds like you deny the Bible as a whole, because "All Scripture is God breathed...."
We've been through this. If you refuse to hear the words of God Himself, than we on this board cannot reach you. You have built up a wall to keep God out, so if you won't let Him in, you won't let the truth in. I'm sorry for that.

 

[Dogbean]

Your idea of "God's rules" is wrong.

God didn't make up a set of arbitrary rules and then tell people to follow them... he made rules to guide peoples interactions together... its JUST like secular law... we make laws to streamline social interaction in areas that need clarification, we don't make up laws for no reason and then expect people to blindly follow them for no reason.

God is the same.

The law is made to serve man, not man made to serve the law. Jesus said it, I believe it, and that kind of puts the final nail in blind Biblical legalism for me. so no more of this "why don't you take it up with God" or "God made the rules not me" or "God doesn't need to run the rules past you first" garbage... because GOD HIMSELF (not Moses, or Paul, or any of the other much loved fundie quote mines but Jesus, who is God) said it doesn't work that way.

So, come up with a logical reason to follow your interpretation of Biblical laws, or stop treating them as anything special. Because the Bible does not work as a stand alone inerrant document, and was never intended to be taken as such.

You have yet to prove any of this. You keep slinging accusations at God and the Bible, with no backup except your opinion. Yet you sound so sure of yourself, prove it. Prove God's motive for writing the Bible is as you say.

 

[Brennin]

I honestly can't see why that would be considered a sin by God or by you.

That speaks volumes.

It doesn't stand up to basic logic.

Yes it does.

 

[KCKID]

I honestly can't see why that would be considered a sin by God or by you.

That speaks volumes.

It speaks volumes about what? That I'm a bad person because I don't see homosexuality as a sin but rather as a 'natural' orientation for that person?

It doesn't stand up to basic logic.

Yes it does.

Sure. Man + Woman = Procreation = "Go forth and be fruitful.". It takes the union of both genders to contribute to that command. That command can even be achieved by people who don't even care about one another but merely come together for casual sex. Ever heard of 'unwanted pregnancies'? Everyone who marries and procreates is not necessarily 'in love' or even attracted to their partner for keeps. Ever heard of marital infidelity or just plain 'boredom' with one's partner that results in divorce? The man/woman thing is not necessarily the be all and end all of marital bliss that some of you guys make it out to be.

Homosexuals 'fall in love' in much the same way as do heterosexuals. Some, even perhaps many, are as promiscuous as some, even perhaps many, heterosexuals. In that regard there is little difference and this situation is perhaps not the most ideal. I think that most of us would agree on that even though, at the end of the day, it's none of our business what others might do in private.

Homosexuals have sex as do heterosexuals. Both were given a 'sex-drive' by God that goes beyond merely for procreation purposes. If 'sex for pleasure' is unnatural for homosexuals then it is also unnatural for their heterosexual counterparts. It is NO different. Some homosexuals, more and more these days, seek to form a committed relationship with a partner of their choice as do heterosexuals. 'One night stands' are recognized for what they are by both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

The alternative to homosexual unions by Christian hardliners (the people of 'the book') is 'conversion' or 'celibacy'. The very idea that God would set into place and be quite happy with Christian 'thereapists' specially ordained to convert homosexuals into heterosexuals is ...well, words fail me. The very idea that God would DEMAND that someone remain celibate for all of their life FOR NO GOOD REASON is equally preposterous as well as cruel.

But, of course, God is NOT a party to either of the above. It's just Christians themselves that have taken on the task to be the mouth-piece of God. The main problem is, however, that they don't speak for God - EVER! - but for themselves. God speaks to each individual in a personal way. There is nothing in the Bible that even implies that He favors heterosexuals! God might well desire that humans promote the 'love' aspect of the Bible but too many actually believe that God needs their help to CONDEMN others.

We should all know by now that human beings cannot be trusted ...especially when they have a religious book in their hands. The very book that is intended to espouse 'love' can also be used as a deadly weapon in the hands of some.

Can you find anything 'illogical' in the above, Brennin?

 

[Brennin]

It speaks volumes about what?

Your ability to speak authoritatively about Christianity as a self-identified Christian.

The alternative to homosexual unions by Christian hardliners (the people of 'the book') is 'conversion' or 'celibacy'. The very idea that God would set into place and be quite happy with Christian 'thereapists' specially ordained to convert homosexuals into heterosexuals is ...well, words fail me. The very idea that God would DEMAND that someone remain celibate for all of their life FOR NO GOOD REASON is equally preposterous as well as cruel.

I do not believe in the efficacy of conversion therapy for most homosexuals. So, the only viable option for the homosexual Christian is perpetual continence. (Heterosexual marriage is also an option, although the homosexual should not be pressured into it and the spouse should be made fully aware of the situation beforehand.)