As far as signs, what qualifies?

[listener]

The key to that one is the line, 'While the earth remains'.....there is the possibility that he could destroy it as Peter and John talk about.

 

[whitestar]

Nana, are you saying that spiritual things are illogical or unreasonable, subject only to some personal revelation? Our Lord is not a God of confusion.

If you're relying on God causing you to feel the truth, than your faith is no more than feelings, and feelings are fallible and errant. Do you see what I mean? God's word is the only reliable source of truth, and all our beliefs and faith should be derived from it.

I agree....and I think there is a verse in the bible that says to NOT rely on our feelings actually...because they change so quickly.

Whitestar, God said that he wouldn't again curse the ground for man's sake.

I didn't say anything about God cursing the earth again...not sure where you are getting that from.

He used destruction to deal with sin in the Flood, but promised that it wouldn't happen again (Genesis 8).

God only promised to never destroy the earth with flooding again...He never promised to not destroy it again.

Genesis 9
11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

2 Peter 3:12-14
12 You should look forward to that day and hurry it along--the day when God will set the heavens on fire and the elements will melt away in the flames. 13 But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world where everyone is right with God.
14 And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to live a pure and blameless life. And be at peace with God.
Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea


If he has to destroy the world to defeat sin, then what did Christ do?

God isn't destroying the world to defeat sin...have you not read Revelation? God pours our His wrath on the wicked....this is punishment happening here.

I have a hard time believing that the Church, the Body of Christ will be destroyed.

No one said the church would be destroyed.

Wickedness is not more powerful than the almighty God.

You are right...its not.

God bless.
-Bill

I honestly don't know how you got all of these false assumptions from my post as I never said any of this except the part about the earth being destroyed and replaced with a new earth...(actually I think its the same earth, redone) this earth is as corrupted with sin as everything else is. It will have to 'die' to purge it of that. Anyway, I am sorry I apparently confused you...hopefully this helped clear things up.

God bless
Whitestar

 

[listener]

In another thread, somebody mentioned 'Degrees of connectedness', and I think that today's modern interpreters, many at least, are willing to allow all six degrees (there is a belief that anything at all can be connected with anything else using just six degrees.). It seems that all the OT prophecies are directly connected...no one had to seek out any 'degree' of connectedness to understand them........................

 

[ShaggyFlasko]

I honestly don't know how you got all of these false assumptions from my post as I never said any of this except the part about the earth being destroyed and replaced with a new earth...(actually I think its the same earth, redone) this earth is as corrupted with sin as everything else is. It will have to 'die' to purge it of that. Anyway, I am sorry I apparently confused you...hopefully this helped clear things up.

I think I have a good idea of what you mean. Perhaps I didn't word it clearly enough.

I didn't say anything about God cursing the earth again...not sure where you are getting that from.

Well, I was referring to the destruction of the Flood, but that's really not the best way to say it. I'm not sure why I worded it like that. Maybe I was still thinking over the references I checked out for the responses below. Sometimes my mind is a bit slow.

God only promised to never destroy the earth with flooding again...He never promised to not destroy it again.

Genesis 8
20Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
22"While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And summer and winter,
And day and night
Shall not cease."

I think that God wasn't concerned as much with the method as he was with the magnitude of the destruction. After all, his reference to the Flood in chapter 9 doesn't negate these words.

God isn't destroying the world to defeat sin...have you not read Revelation? God pours our His wrath on the wicked....this is punishment happening here.

Revelation says that there will still be wickedness, but outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, and that the nations will still exist.

Revelation 21
24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

No one said the church would be destroyed.

I must've misunderstood earlier.

no one will be a real Christian at all

What do you mean?

God bless.
-Bill

 

[whitestar]

Good points...thanks for posting Genesis 8. The thing is not everyone will die ...otherwise why the verse on some being bodily taken up to Heaven? I wish I could think of the verse that tell us that yes, their will be survivors after the tribulation...I would assume that some animals will survive too. If you read in Revelation, it usually says 1/3 of something will die....like 1/3 of the grass, trees, 1/3 of the creatures in the ocean will die...



Revelation 8:7-9

7 The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth.[a] And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
Second Trumpet: The Seas Struck

8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Revelation says that there will still be wickedness, but outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, and that the nations will still exist.

Revelation 21
24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Yes and what excatly are nations made up of? People. Alot of people believe in God. At any rate this is on the New Earth..in the New City. This chapter is after the Great White Throne Judgement where the unbelievers are cast into the Lake of Fire...which I think is outside the gates of the New City....as you have show. No sin is allowed in the New City though...these people are seperated in everyway from God.

When I said there would be no real Christians I was saying IF things continue on like they are...so many are following false teaching or giving up on their faith, its really scarey. I just pray that Jesus comes soon.

God bless

 

[listener]

Actually, the two are part of one covenant with several parts. They are in the same narrative area and share it. God has promised not to destroy the eart like he just did. There would be time to fill the earth and for the descendants to grow and multiply. Within this growth, God promises that the earth will still have its areas of normalcy and predictability; essentials for planting advanced civilizations. If you read Gen. 9:11, that is the heart of the 'no destruction clause.' God did say in ch. 8, While the earth remains...and this is all one narrative in the bible...........

 

[bertie]

Firstly,when i look at current events,advances in science or new schools of thought,I look to see if they have the possibility of fullfilling prophecy.What ever i run across that shows promise of becoming a prphecy fullfiller, i add to my mental escatological file(.Invention of a bomb.ie. the earth will go out by fire next time.)Obviosly the possiblity exists that man will unleash the destuction.At any rate there are all kinds of things that relate.(overfished oceans, coupled with polution destroy the 1/3 of the fish) the sea turns to blood(giant red algae blooms cover large parts of the sea)The idea is that without a clear consise live prophet we left to seek the possibilities and cataloge them hoping for some clarification over time.This is the watch and wait part....We are watching and waiting,as well as proselytizing,The truth will be revealed on Gods time not ours.Though one cant say this is it or that is,we can at least make ourseves aware of the possibilities.I have wondered where the basis for the 4 kingdoms has been proveen to be the Medes persians Romans,etc Even this is not nessessarily perfect interpretation of the dream interpreted by daniel.Yes It Could Be has good resons etc but not conclusive to me as yet.As there are too many other empires left out.What about the NAZI empire,short lived as it was.the commies? no clarification there.What if hitler is/was the anti christ.?there is no proof he is dead.The Catholic church helped lots of Nazis to escape after the war in some estimations.Would a revived Nazi empire headed by hitler,how i dont know,qualify for the anti christ supposed resurrection.?on aaand on .Farther and farther out.one thing of which we are sure,the prophecies will be fullfilled,but how they are may be very different from what is expected.There are tons of signs in the heavens by the way...which herald the end i cant say, but we are seeing all kinds of things through the Hubble aaand will see many more when the new generation multi mirrored telescopes are operational.How about the face on Mars.does that qualify?