Art Model

[Bible Highlighter]

Is God concerned that we have properly trained doctors? There are certain professions where an understanding of the naked human body is necessary.

Not really. God can heal people without the use of a doctor. Also, God knows that they will exist as a part of the world system. Is it wrong to be a doctor and to see the human form so as to treat people? No. They are trying to help them. But even doctors can struggle with lustful thoughts by seeing the naked form. They are human after all. That's the point. We live in a fallen world. God gave Adam and Eve clothing to cover their nakedness (Which is shame). They lost their innocence. They now realize they are naked and exposed. Today, we see in society that beng naked and exposed is something that can embarrass people and put people in shock. Why? Because of the fall.

Also, does God call us to be doctors or to be followers of Him?
Granted, that does not mean you cannot be a doctor, but the point is that this world is temporary and the ways of the world and it's thinking of what is normal is not in line with God's ways. God tells us in the New Testament to dress modestly. So to go contrary to that command is to go against God. Yes, can we go to a doctor and show them our nakedness so that they can cure us? Yes, but this is in a private setting and for a specific purpose. To cure you. Just like with Isaiah, God had specific purpose for Isaiah in why He made Isaiah go naked. It was a part of a prophecy to symbolize "shame." Nakedness for fallen man is described as shame according to the Bible. We should recoginize and respect that. We should appear to be holy and upright and do what is good and right before the world (Thereby letting the light of Christ shine unto them within our lives). But pushing for nudity when God is not commanding us to go nude? What does that prove? It only proves that we want to do our own thing and not God's thing.



...

 

[JacksBratt]

Quiz, Jesus would not smoke because it is not healthy, and we are to revere our bodies. Jesus would play basket ball, and be very good at it. He would teach the kids to play it too. Drive? No, Rather Fly. Jesus would invent His own cellphone, of some natural wood perhaps, He was a carpenter then, nowadays he would be an software engineer or a build houses. If he was served and given food from Mc Donalds He´d eat it otherwise he´d prefer smaller companies and private people to feed Him and pay them accordingly or give them what they need. Jesus came to die on a cross for our sins - nude. He prayed that He´d be spared but there was no other way. I wouldn´t call it posing. Posing is vanity. It get google ads pop up an underwear man in white boxershorts posing among female dresses and wigs. Click off that. that is not my Jesus. My Jesus is also a singer and He plays electrical guitar, piano and bagpipe.

I think, in Jesus case, when He was nude, on the cross, it was for one purpose.... humiliation.

 

[Archivist]

I think, in Jesus case, when He was nude, on the cross, it was for one purpose.... humiliation.

Yes, but when Peter was nude in a fishing boat it was because one fisherman--the man who was in and out of the water working the nets--did so in the nude.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes I was there and took a bit of the fruit. Yes I can and will regain my place in eden in this life. As job said, in my flesh I shall see God. It is ok if you dont understand.

And I find no fault in you waiting for a future time, or a different body.

We all know God doesn't change. There are many here to point out sin and the bad....to say who is doing wrong and point to scriptures to explain how they know. Scriptures were used to condemn Jesus as well. We don't need more, do we?

I AM come not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Well, this is not the place, but I would love to hear this doctrine that you speak of and the theology you use to explain how you were there to eat of the fruit and will return to that state of pre-fall conditions of innocence.... maybe another thread?

Very bizarre in the least. Especially coming from a proclaimed Pentecostal.

Scriptures are used to condemn. Jesus did not come to condemn but any that do not follow His words, will be condemned.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, but when Peter was nude in a fishing boat it was because one fisherman--the man who was in and out of the water working the nets--did so in the nude.

And, of course, no women would be fishing with them. Different times, different conditions.

 

[JacksBratt]

Raymond, there is no way to get back to those times.
What you are longing for, is the innocence of babyhood. Before you knew right from wrong.
That was the state of the naked Adam and Eve in the garden, before they ate the fruit.

But since humans fell, we know instinctively there is a difference between right and wrong.
And we will always know that difference. Even in heaven.

Satan tempted Eve by trying to get her to doubt the wisdom of God's instructions to her.

He is tempting you to think the same way about God.

When Adam and Eve felt guilty, they made fig leaf aprons for themselves.
As soon as they knew good from evil, they knew clothes were a good idea.

When God showed up on the scene, did he tell them they were mistaken about needing clothes? No.
Instead, He told them those fig leaf aprons were NOT ENOUGH!

And this issue of NOT ENOUGH CLOTHES was so big to God, that He shed the first blood ever shed on the earth, to make coats of animal skins, to cover those first humans.

That's how important it was to God, that the first humans got the message about what constituted proper clothing.

Not just their private parts. And not just females.
BOTH man and woman. And more than fig leaves sewed together, to make little aprons.

And it still matters that much to God, how much we cover our bodies.

You and I are not given the option by God to make up our own rules about whether fig leaf equivalents are okay. God said once they aren't. And when God says something, once is enough.

When we get to heaven, we won't go around naked. We will be wearing robes.
Sorry if that offends you, but it's the Bible.

Not only that, but the first shed blood for clothing is a direct metaphor and foreshadowing of Christ.

The shed blood to cover their nakedness sin
The shed blood of Christ to cover their total sins.

 

[Archivist]

Not really. God can heal people without the use of a doctor. Also, God knows that they will exist as a part of the world system. Is it wrong to be a doctor and to see the human form so as to treat people? No. They are trying to help them. But even doctors can struggle with lustful thoughts by seeing the naked form. They are human after all. That's the point. We live in a fallen world. God gave Adam and Eve clothing to cover their nakedness (Which is shame). They lost their innocence. They now realize they are naked and exposed. Today, we see in society that beng naked and exposed is something that can embarrass people and put people in shock. Why? Because of the fall.

Also, does God call us to be doctors or to be followers of Him?
Granted, that does not mean you cannot be a doctor, but the point is that this world is temporary and the ways of the world and it's thinking of what is normal is not in line with God's ways. God tells us in the New Testament to dress modestly. So to go contrary to that command is to go against God. Yes, can we go to a doctor and show them our nakedness so that they can cure us? Yes, but this is in a private setting and for a specific purpose. To cure you. Just like with Isaiah, God had specific purpose for Isaiah in why He made Isaiah go naked. It was a part of a prophecy to symbolize "shame." Nakedness for fallen man is described as shame according to the Bible. We should recoginize and respect that. We should appear to be holy and upright and do what is good and right before the world (Thereby letting the light of Christ shine unto them within our lives). But pushing for nudity when God is not commanding us to go nude? What does that prove? It only proves that we want to do our own thing and not God's thing.

So now medical students shouldn't see anyone naked because "God can heal people without the use of a doctor." Well, when I get sick I'm going to a doctor.

So, if a doctor sees someone naked it "is in a private setting and for a specific purpose." Well, a nude model posing for an art class is also "in a private setting and for a specific purpose."

 

[Archivist]

And, of course, no women would be fishing with them. Different times, different conditions.

Actually he was in plain view of the shore, so any woman on shore could have seen him.

 

[JacksBratt]

One of my MD friends told me that when she was in medical school the med students served as patients to be examined by their fellow students. Her male counterparts saw her nude. She saw them nude. They also had outside people come on for examinations during which those people were naked. Doctors see people naked, they need to get used to it. Therefore it is part of their training as med students.

Artists have to have an understanding of the human body in order to properly paint the body. Painting nudes is part of their training. There is nothing wrong with being an artist and painting a nude, not is there anything wrong with posing as a nude model.

I took art for five years. I know that you do not have to be nude to have people paint or sketch you and be perfectly capable of learning about the form of the human body...

So that idea gets a "gong" from me.

 

[JacksBratt]

Actually he was in plain view of the shore, so any woman could have seen him.

Have you ever fished? Usually the shore is not where near and the women were not with the men. They were back at the hut, tent or whatever dwelling.

 

[JacksBratt]

Is God concerned that we have properly trained doctors? There are certain professions where an understanding of the naked human body is necessary.

Yep... key word.... "professions"

 

[Martyr's Crown]

Yes, but when Peter was nude in a fishing boat it was because one fisherman--the man who was in and out of the water working the nets--did so in the nude.

Is it totally sure that he didn't wear maybe something covered on the underpart whilst going into the water? Could you show that bibleverse again, please?

 

[Archivist]

I took art for five years. I know that you do not have to be nude to have people paint or sketch you and be perfectly capable of learning about the form of the human body...

So that idea gets a "gong" from me.

Then why is it a standard offering at art schools? As an example, the following to from the course listings for Fay Boyd's Fine Art School in Australia:

PORTRAITURE AND THE NUDE – Explore Drawing and Painting the Figure

This workshop will explore figure drawing as a basis for painting the figure and creating a portrait. From life drawing to portraiture the human form has been the central subject of Western art since the ancient Greeks. The workshop will focus on using observational drawing methods by working directly from the model in a studio environment. Students will work through a series of foundational exercises and strategies that will improve and build on their life drawing abilities, explore the potential of various painting methods and focus on skill development. This fun and exciting workshop will help participants to “see” and encourages learning from mistakes. Students will be emboldened to take risks and expand their own creative processes by exploring different media and figure painting techniques.

 

[Archivist]

Have you ever fished? Usually the shore is not where near and the women were not with the men. They were back at the hut, tent or whatever dwelling.

I have fished.

Any proof that there were no women around? Evidence please.

 

[Archivist]

Is it totally sure that he didn't wear maybe something covered on the underpart whilst going into the water? Could you show that bibleverse again, please?

John 21:7: "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea."

We also know from surviving artwork that one fisherman, the man who worked the nets, was usually naked.

 

[RaymondG]

Well, this is not the place, but I would love to hear this doctrine that you speak of and the theology you use to explain how you were there to eat of the fruit and will return to that state of pre-fall conditions of innocence.... maybe another thread?

Very bizarre in the least. Especially coming from a proclaimed Pentecostal.

Scriptures are used to condemn. Jesus did not come to condemn but any that do not follow His words, will be condemned.

No thanks, Good luck to you on your journey to heaven.

 

[aiki]

It seems to me my questions have been ignored time and time again. Why was Isaiah commanded to preach naked for three years? God would lot command someone to sin. Answer this...

Why indeed? Scripture is quite clear as to why:

Isaiah 20:2-6
2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off your loins, and put off your shoe from your foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah has walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
5 And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.
6 And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, where shall we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?

God was not using Isaiah to promote nakedness but to warn of His divine judgment. Isaiah's nakedness was a graphic illustration of the shame and humiliation God would bring upon the Egyptians and Ethiopians. How is this, then, in any way an endorsement of public nakedness? As I said, the general tenor of the Bible toward public nakedness is very negative. Isaiah's behaviour in the instance in Isaiah 20 is consistent with this.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

Are you saying that medical students shouldn't see people naked as part of their training? Drawing the naked human form is part of training for an artist.

Surely you don't think the reasons a doctor must observe a person naked are the same as those motivating an artist to draw a nude person? Comparing medical necessity to artistic interest seems a bit silly to me...

Selah.

 

[JacksBratt]

Then why is it a standard offering at art schools? As an example, the following to from the course listings for Fay Boyd's Fine Art School in Australia:

PORTRAITURE AND THE NUDE – Explore Drawing and Painting the Figure

This workshop will explore figure drawing as a basis for painting the figure and creating a portrait. From life drawing to portraiture the human form has been the central subject of Western art since the ancient Greeks. The workshop will focus on using observational drawing methods by working directly from the model in a studio environment. Students will work through a series of foundational exercises and strategies that will improve and build on their life drawing abilities, explore the potential of various painting methods and focus on skill development. This fun and exciting workshop will help participants to “see” and encourages learning from mistakes. Students will be emboldened to take risks and expand their own creative processes by exploring different media and figure painting techniques.

Note that I did not say that this isn't done..... I simply stated that it is not necessary.....

Unless you are sketching detailed drawings of the male or female genitalia.....you do not "need" a nude model...

It is done and done all over the world. I'm just saying it's not necessary.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have fished.

I'm not talking about drowning worms off a dock. I mean fishing boats with trolling nets.

Any proof that there were no women around? Evidence please.

Check any history of the roles of men and women in those times...

I know, as soon as I'm asked for evidence, I have a point.