Arsenokoites

[noobsaibot]

No, it refers to lying with men.

So I suppose no woman ever layed down with a man before?

 

[Brennin]

So since the Bible is not a reliable guide to moral behavior, it's a pointless discussion.

Not to the people who espouse the Bible as a moral guide.

 

[Brennin]

Then I guess this these also constituted a vacuous illustration:

I was countering examples from the English language with examples from the English language. I did not claim that it had anything to do with the proper translation of arsenokoites.

Not as something to be relied upon, no.

I think it is safe to conclude that you are not familiar with the concept of hypothesis testing.

 

[ebia]

I was countering examples from the English language with examples from the English language. I did not claim that it had anything to do with the proper translation of arsenokoites.



I think it is safe to conclude that you are not familiar with the concept of hypothesis testing.

So exactly how do you plan to test the hypothesis?

 

[CCGirl]

Anyone who claims a¹rsenokoiðthv (arsenokoites) does not refer to homoeroticism is either ignorant/deluded or prevaricating; there is no other alternative.

Anyone who believes it refers to homosexuality is deluded/ignorant!

Link:

So, what does the word mean? Scholars are divided. Some say the word is so obscure we're only left to guess but other scholars have gone ahead and made the leap and settled on such definitions as, "abusers of themselves with mankind," "perverts," "sodomites," and finally, "homosexuals." Many scholars believe that Paul coined this word by combining the two words used in the Septuagint (an ancient, pre-Christian translation of the Old Testament into Greek) to translate the Hebrew word "quadesh" which refers to "male temple prostitutes." Other scholars like L. William Countryman, Robin Scroggs and Daniel Helminiak all conclude that the word refers to male prostitutes. So, here, as we saw in our study of the Old Testament references used against gays and lesbians, this word most likely refers again to idol worship or other forms of sex that objectify another person

.

 

[outlaw]

I was countering examples from the English language with examples from the English language. I did not claim that it had anything to do with the proper translation of arsenokoites.



I think it is safe to conclude that you are not familiar with the concept of hypothesis testing.

But you are trying (unsuccessfully) to claim that two unconnected words (man and bed) form a specific compound word used by Paul (pretty much a unique word, not one in common usage, in fact the common and well known word for homosexual was for some reason not used here by Paul at all) that has a singular and unquestioned interpretation and you know this by making the unsupported claim that in ancient Greek ALL meanings of compound words were derived form their component words.





Just like in English where a firearm means to douse one’s upper limb with a combustible agent and set it alight.

 

[CCGirl]

But you are trying (unsuccessfully) to claim that two unconnected words (man and bed) form a specific compound word used by Paul (pretty much a unique word, not one in common usage, in fact the common and well known word for homosexual was for some reason not used here by Paul at all) that has a singular and unquestioned interpretation and you know this by making the unsupported claim that in ancient Greek ALL meanings of compound words were derived form their component words.

Paul would have used homophilia if he was refering to homosexuality.

Just like in English where a firearm means to douse one’s upper limb with a combustible agent and set it alight

 

[crazyfingers]

Not to the people who espouse the Bible as a moral guide.

Why would you follow something that is not a unreliable moral guide?

 

[Brennin]

...you know this by making the unsupported claim that in ancient Greek ALL meanings of compound words were derived form their component words.

I did not make that claim.

 

[Brennin]

Why would you follow something that is not a unreliable moral guide?

Eh?

 

[Brennin]

Paul would have used homophilia if he was refering to homosexuality.

That is a modern word, not an ancient word. Is your next assertion going to be that Paul had a time-machine?

 

[Brennin]

Anyone who believes it refers to homosexuality is deluded/ignorant!

Link:


.

Wrong.

 

[outlaw]

I did not make that claim.

Of course admitting this demolishes your original assertion



You are saying that a compound word in ancient Greek is just like a compound word in modern English...it has a meaning unique to itself not a meaning derived from a clumsy combining of its two component words.



Which is why woolgathering has nothing to do with obsessively picking up stray pieces of wool and why a chairman isn’t a male human being who invites you to sit on his lap.

 

[Brennin]

You are saying that a compound word in ancient Greek is just like a compound word in modern English...it has a meaning unique to itself not a meaning derived from a clumsy combining of its two component words.

I did not claim that, either.

 

[outlaw]

I did not claim that, either.

Well either all compound words in Ancient Greek have their meaning directly derived from the meanings of their component words…in which case you have failed to support your claim and your whole assertion falls apart…or compound words in Ancient Greek have a unique meaning that is not derived from the meanings of their component words…in which case your whole assertion falls apart.

 

[Brennin]

Well either all compound words in Ancient Greek have their meaning directly derived from the meanings of their component words…in which case you have failed to support your claim and your whole assertion falls apart…or compound words in Ancient Greek have a unique meaning that is not derived from the meanings of their component words…in which case your whole assertion falls apart.

That is a false dichotomy.

 

[outlaw]

That is a false dichotomy.

To be a false dichotomy it must be false.







Either ALL compound words in ancient Greek had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words or not all did. If ALL compound words in ancient Greek had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words you have failed to provide evidence for this meaning that your assertion that arsenokoites means what you desperately want it to mean is without foundation. Meaning that your assertion that arsenokoites derives its meaning from its component words is without foundation.



If on the other hand compound words in ancient Greek may or may not have (or at least occasionally) had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words you have no evidence that arsenokoites is such an example of a compound word whose meaning is directly derived from the meaning of its component words….again making your assertion foundationless.



Worse to accept your premise we need to reject extra biblical translations of the word arsenokoites as meaning one who financially exploits others and as yet no one has presented good reason why these extra biblical sources should be ignored.



And then you must face the question if Paul actually meant to say homosexual why did he decline to use the Greek word for homosexual and instead use a word everyone else was using to mean one who financially exploits others….unless of course he meant to say one who financially exploits others in the first place

 

[Brennin]

To be a false dichotomy it must be false.







Either ALL compound words in ancient Greek had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words or not all did. If ALL compound words in ancient Greek had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words you have failed to provide evidence for this meaning that your assertion that arsenokoites means what you desperately want it to mean is without foundation. Meaning that your assertion that arsenokoites derives its meaning from its component words is without foundation.

If on the other hand compound words in ancient Greek may or may not have (or at least occasionally) had their meaning directly derived for the meaning of its component words you have no evidence that arsenokoites is such an example of a compound word whose meaning is directly derived from the meaning of its component words….again making your assertion foundationless.

That is not what you wrote previously.

 

[Brennin]

Worse to accept your premise we need to reject extra biblical translations of the word arsenokoites as meaning one who financially exploits others and as yet no one has presented good reason why these extra biblical sources should be ignored.

According to whom? Have you studied Ancient Greek? Have you verified this for yourself? I am sorry to burst your bubble but I require more than a cut-and-paste from gay "Christian" websites.

And then you must face the question if Paul actually meant to say homosexual why did he decline to use the Greek word for homosexual and instead use a word everyone else was using to mean one who financially exploits others….unless of course he meant to say one who financially exploits others in the first place

Already been addressed.

 

[outlaw]

That is not what you wrote previously.

And your assertions are without foundation