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Arriving at beliefs

Gladius

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If you feel like it, please share how you arrive at a position of belief or non-belief (or truth or falsehood if you prefer) on the following claim:

"The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969".

This is not a trick question but predictably will be followed up with another thread citing your answers to this one.
 

lesliedellow

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If you feel like it, please share how you arrive at a position of belief or non-belief (or truth or falsehood if you prefer) on the following claim:

"The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969".

This is not a trick question but predictably will be followed up with another thread citing your answers to this one.

I am ancient enough to be able to remember the event, and Neil Armstrong's truly corny sound bite.
 
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Feldon

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If you feel like it, please share how you arrive at a position of belief or non-belief (or truth or falsehood if you prefer) on the following claim:

"The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969".

This is not a trick question but predictably will be followed up with another thread citing your answers to this one.

Belief in the moon landing, because:

1. Overwhelming preponderance of evidence
2. Personal knowledge, experience, insight & expectations of human nature, government & culture

(Isn't it crazy to think that the smartphone on your pocket had more computing power than the spaceship that went to the moon???)
 
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Marbleyes902

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I remember watching it on TV live. As a 10 year old boy, this was one of the major news events I was interested in. Everyone was.
Now of course that is at the heart of the conspiracy theory regarding the moon landing. That all that footage was faked. Done in a studio some where. Now I believe that it actually took place for more reasons alone than that I saw it on TV. Or that it is a sentimental moment of my childhood. But just looking at that one point. It was all a "movie" more or less. Today, I would say they could pull it off. With the advances in special effects from 1969 to today is nothing short of amazing. That being said. Go back, watch the footage. Even with what is available to watch, you can see this is real. Watch a movie, or tv from the time. They would have botched it at some point. Even if it was just one small movement, or the way an inanimate object moved. Somebody would have pointed it out clearly by now. But things instead move the way you would expect in different gravity.

One small point as a side note to the lunar landing. If you look at the feet of the lunar lander the astronauts were in. Big dish looking things. I had read (correct me if I'm wrong) that they were like that, because they were expecting the moon to have a thick coating of cosmic dust. This expectation due to measurements they had been taking of cosmic dust up to that point. If as they theorize, the moon had been in orbit around the earth for millions/billions of years, then the dust that had accumulated would be thick, and the feet on the lander were designed to help keep the lander from sinking too far into what could possibly be a deep layer of dust. Instead they were surprised to find a relatively thin layer of dust, as pictures of the footprints show. It is only about an inch deep. Indicating the moon has not in fact been around for millions/billions of years, but instead does suggest a young moon.

Now if you wish to believe that the moon landing was faked, the logical question is, why?
As far as believing there are legitimate conspiracies in our society to be aware of, and even concerned about. Yes. Of course. Look at history. Logic tells you, that if men have plotted throughout history to gain positions of power, why would it be any different today?

Here is a quote by Edward Bernays, the father of propaganda

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
 
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St_Worm2

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If you feel like it, please share how you arrive at a position of belief or non-belief (or truth or falsehood if you prefer) on the following claim:

"The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969".

I was about 13 years old at the time. I watched it on TV and marveled at what had happened along with my family. I also saw the headlines in the newspapers we had delivered to our home. It was all very convincing, thus my belief that it really happened. (I believe they are about to commemorate the event, which happened 45 years ago tomorrow .. the moon walk that is ... by showing some of the original images, videos, and soundtracks. Should be cool to see it all again .. :thumbsup:)

However, I also remember going duck hunting with my grandfather in Dover, DE sometime shortly after that because there were a couple of my grandfather's friends there who believed the entire event was a government conspiracy or sham, that the video that we saw on the TV news programs was contrived (that no one had or ever would walk on the moon).

--David
 
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Received

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If you feel like it, please share how you arrive at a position of belief or non-belief (or truth or falsehood if you prefer) on the following claim:

"The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969".

This is not a trick question but predictably will be followed up with another thread citing your answers to this one.

Authority
 
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Eudaimonist

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1) I saw the moon landing on live television as a wee lad
2) A reasonable expectation that human technology was up to the task, given the track record of NASA
3) The acceptance amongst the scientifically literate that the moon landing was real and possible

Could the moon landing have been faked? It is within the realm of scientific possibility, but I have no evidence to support that case. It seems absurd to me that the moon landing was faked given its rational plausibility. It requires a major leap of "conspiracy" thinking to draw that conclusion.

This is not at all analogous to supernatural claims. The authority of a scientist is vastly different to the authority of a tea leaf reader or a mystic.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Received

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Here, let me be more provocative:

Any aspect of knowledge that is given by a person with more knowledge than ourselves which we're either incapable of arriving at (given our lack of specialty) or don't have time or inclination to arrive at is done through authority. Finis.
 
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KCfromNC

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Here, let me be more provocative:

Any aspect of knowledge that is given by a person with more knowledge than ourselves which we're either incapable of arriving at (given our lack of specialty) or don't have time or inclination to arrive at is done through authority. Finis.

Maybe. But that doesn't mean that everything you don't personally research is equally likely to be true or equally reasonable to believe as true.

Sounds like a variation on the "we can't prove things using induction with 100% certainty therefore creationism is just as likely as evolution" approach to skepticism.
 
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Received

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Maybe. But that doesn't mean that everything you don't personally research is equally likely to be true or equally reasonable to believe as true.

Sounds like a variation on the "we can't prove things using induction with 100% certainty therefore creationism is just as likely as evolution" approach to skepticism.

Except that we do know lots of things about evolution which make creationism ridiculously wrong.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Any aspect of knowledge that is given by a person with more knowledge than ourselves which we're either incapable of arriving at (given our lack of specialty) or don't have time or inclination to arrive at is done through authority. Finis.

There are different forms of authority.

Let's say that I want to know if the Higgs boson exists or not. I visit two "authorities" and ask them for their answer, and how they know that they are correct.

One is a physicist working for CERN. He has a PhD in physics, and he explains to me in layman terms how the particle accelerator works, how measurements are made, and what results lead to the conclusion that the Higgs boson has been identified.

The math is over my head, but I understand the basic idea that the Higgs boson is a subatomic particle with certain properties, and just such a particle has been detected a statistically significant number of times just as expected by theory.

Next, I visit another authority, a tea leaf reader. He tells me that, of course, the Higgs boson exists. He sees the truth in the tea leaves. I ask him how reading tea leaves confirms his conclusion. He replies in vague, mystical language that amounts to "it's magic!" and "you just gotta have faith in what the tea leaves say".

The two types of "authority" aren't the same. I have far more reason to take one credibly than the other, and I don't need a PhD to do so. If I know the basic principle behind their knowledge claims, I can assess how likely it is that either one knows the answer to my question.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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bhsmte

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Let's forget about he evidence for the moon landing for a second and just fall back to this:

If it was false, it would have required a massive conspiracy, involving many people to pull off. I don't think that is possible because I am a firm believer in the following:

3 people can keep a secret, if 2 of them are dead.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I think it was real...there is a preponderance of evidence, some of which I think is testable (I'd have to look it up). Those who claim to have been involved in the moon landing age
trustworthy on the topic as I can't imagine any incentive for lying.
 
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Gladius

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Here, let me be more provocative:

Any aspect of knowledge that is given by a person with more knowledge than ourselves which we're either incapable of arriving at (given our lack of specialty) or don't have time or inclination to arrive at is done through authority. Finis.

Wow, nice recipe for the Orwellian State.

Are you seriously arguing that you believed the moon landing because your believe everything the US Government and media tells you?
 
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Gladius

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Let's forget about he evidence for the moon landing for a second and just fall back to this:

If it was false, it would have required a massive conspiracy, involving many people to pull off. I don't think that is possible because I am a firm believer in the following:

3 people can keep a secret, if 2 of them are dead.

I personally agree with this logic myself, as I wasn't born at the time of the landing. Modern history shows just how hard it is to keep a really juicy secret from the public (just ask Bill Clinton).
 
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