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Oh yes, I certainly agree! And....to not decide is to have decided! To refuse to place ones faith in Him as Savior and Lord is overt rejection of Him! He does command us to believe and repent! Amen!!
Mmm, technically it's not based on the work, though.Yes and isn't to obey a good work? In which case their salvation is based on works--their work of choosing God, though many would deny this.
First, just let me say that I agree with you that some that call themselves Calvinists are very mean and hurtful. I have been on the receiving end of that type of person too.i just read through this whole post which is crazy long and i'm not calvinist but as far as the whole free will predestination thing. i'm guessing when you say arminians you are talking about christians that are not calvinist and believe in free will. personally i think you are misquoting or not understanding the beliefs of us free will christians it's not salvation by works and we aren't taking credit if you ask most people they will usually give credit to the Holy Spirit and then say the accepted it. i also found it quite insulting how people said that those of us who are not calvinists might or will get to heaven but that's in spite of our believes because our beliefs are all wrong. i have never heard a group of christians go and say if you aren't this denomination you are totally wrong. that is so rude. everyone gets different things out of the Bible and interrprets it differently and to say you are right and everyone else is wrong is very hurtful and i personally don't think it's very christian like. it's not your place to say who is right and who is wrong with their beliefs and if you try don't be surprised if someone tells you or someone close to you a young child that their calvinists beliefs are totally wrong. sorry but that really hurts i thought it was God's job to help us understand the Bible and make the descision of who's a christian and who's not. sorry but i've had bad experiences with calvinists before still not over at it at all and thought that maybe the people on here would be nicer when it comes to beliefs. well i'm done with my rant take from it what you will.
thank you for your reply it was nice but you assumed that i don't understand the scriptures or at least not understand it correctly. which to me feels like you are saying your beliefs are right and mine are wrong not flat out but sort of in a around about way. i believe i understand the bible i believe if you pray and seek God and ask for discernment you will be able to understand it. now as far as all the different translations of what different denominations think the Bible means that doesn't mean the what you believe is necessarily what God was trying to say in the Bible either because we all are humans and calvin was only a man we can go by what one human tells us is how the Bible is supposed to be read. I read the Bible and study it i don't necessarily agree totally with any denomination i lean towards a few more than others but i pray and have God lead me. as far as the Bible verses go. i know them all well and i know what i believe about them. you don't need to convince me or tell me what you think they mean because that won't change my beliefs. i'm sorry if that came across rude. i am very sensative when it comes to this subject because they are my beliefs and they are important to me and i don't like when others speak badly about them.Second, since you name the name of Christ, I know that you must believe that scripture is what it claims to be, and that is that it is God's Word, it is Pure Truth, all of it, not just parts of it, and because God spoke it and it is Truth, it all makes sense, because God tells us in His Word that "He is a God of order and not confusion". Therefore when something we find in God's Word doesn't make sense to us, it's because we don't see it correctly yet, we don't really understand it. God's Word is spoken by Him through the apostles and prophets, and thus can never be wrong or contradict itself.
as far as this statement goes i never said that i didn't understand something. i did say that i believe if we ask God he will show us what the Bible means i never said the Bible contradicts itself because it doesn't but different denominations see things different ways. i don't necessarily agree with them but it also isn't my place to say they aren't christians or their beliefs are wrong because even if i don't think so they might be right on how they interpreted it and the rest of us can be wrong.Sometimes it may seem to, but that is all it does, it just SEEMS, on first impression to our limited minds, to contradict itself, but it can't. When we really look at it hard and seek to understand it, instead of automatically trying to explain it away, asking the Holy Spirit to show us what it means, and if we really mean it when we ask, then He will do so, and all of a sudden sometimes we see and understand what we never saw before. This has happened to me many times.
Yep, you were right, you've had some bad experiences with Calvinists and you're still not over it. Maybe it's time you got over it since forgiveness is a Christian virtue?.thank you for your reply it was nice but you assumed that i don't understand the scriptures or at least not understand it correctly. which to me feels like you are saying your beliefs are right and mine are wrong not flat out but sort of in a around about way. i believe i understand the bible i believe if you pray and seek God and ask for discernment you will be able to understand it. now as far as all the different translations of what different denominations think the Bible means that doesn't mean the what you believe is necessarily what God was trying to say in the Bible either because we all are humans and calvin was only a man we can go by what one human tells us is how the Bible is supposed to be read. I read the Bible and study it i don't necessarily agree totally with any denomination i lean towards a few more than others but i pray and have God lead me. as far as the Bible verses go. i know them all well and i know what i believe about them. you don't need to convince me or tell me what you think they mean because that won't change my beliefs. i'm sorry if that came across rude. i am very sensative when it comes to this subject because they are my beliefs and they are important to me and i don't like when others speak badly about them.
as far as this statement goes i never said that i didn't understand something. i did say that i believe if we ask God he will show us what the Bible means i never said the Bible contradicts itself because it doesn't but different denominations see things different ways. i don't necessarily agree with them but it also isn't my place to say they aren't christians or their beliefs are wrong because even if i don't think so they might be right on how they interpreted it and the rest of us can be wrong.
you don't know my intentions the reason i came here is because i was told before that if i read the posts in the calvinist section i would find out that that's not how all calvinists are. the reason i posted is because honestly alot of the responses on the thread were hurtful i also think that alot of the responses were about what i believe in terms of free will were incorrect and taken out of context i think they were calvinists saying what they think non calvinists or arminians believe on the topic of free will and predestination.Yep, you were right, you've had some bad experiences with Calvinists and you're still not over it. Maybe it's time you got over it since forgiveness is a Christian virtue?.
And if you already understand everything what are you doing here? Just complaining about Calvinists? I don't go over to the Arminian sections and complain about Arminians.
The reason I took the time to write what I did was because I thought you had an honest question. Apparently you don't.
I also notice that you had not one word to say about the Scripture I spent the whole post discussing. Is that because you just want to complain about Calvin or Calvinists, or is it because you don't know what the verse means, or don't care to know what it means?
As for Calvin, I didn't bother to mention it in the prior post but I have never called myself a Calvinist because I think Paul tells us not to say we follow Apollos or Cephas or....
And actually I don't care what calvin believed or anyone else believes in the final analysis unless it is what God teaches, and when I stopped worrying about who said what about whom and just started reading the Bible, asking Him to show me what it meant, that is when my views about things started to change.
Sorry I wasted your time, and sorry you wasted mine, I really am,
Much Christian love,
in Him,
jer3119
Well, I guess I'd have to say that there are people of all sorts across all theologies. None of these need be defended belligerently. The truth is the truth. Yet most theologies have belligerents.you don't know my intentions the reason i came here is because i was told before that if i read the posts in the calvinist section i would find out that that's not how all calvinists are.
In fact I'd be interested to discuss specific assertions. If you'd like you can quote the assertion (everyone can see what it says, no harm referring to it); then describe what you think it implies, and why it's hurtful.the reason i posted is because honestly alot of the responses on the thread were hurtful
I can certainly agree with you that some views of free will are not correctly represented by the postings here.as far as complaining about calvinists that wasn't my intention my intention was to try and tell you that these comments are incorrect and go and say this is what these people believe in terms of free will when you don't believe in and don't understand that belief making comments on it and how we think is hurtful that's all i was trying to say.
Was James an Arminian for saying that faith without works is dead? Was Jesus an Arminian for writing the parable of the sheep and goats where those who did no good works are excluded from heaven?Yes they do, they belive that man has the free will to choose christ which makes it a WORK of man. That is not giving all the glory to Christ for their salvation. Here is a link on what The Arminians belive. www .bible-researcher.com/arminianism.html
If you have any other questions feel free and unafraid to ask. There are a lot of misconceptions of what Calvinists belive which are Mostly all very false and uninformed opinions.
Nope and nope.Was James an Arminian for saying that faith without works is dead? Was Jesus an Arminian for writing the parable of the sheep and goats where those who did no good works are excluded from heaven?
Was James an Arminian for saying that faith without works is dead?
Koey said:Was Jesus an Arminian for writing the parable of the sheep and goats where those who did no good works are excluded from heaven?
Interesting... Where does it say that faith will produce works, i.e. one follows the other? Is there proof that they are not rather simultaneous as the Catholics say?
Here:Interesting... Where does it say that faith will produce works, i.e. one follows the other? Is there proof that they are not rather simultaneous as the Catholics say?
Grace through faith unto good works before ordained.Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
No, they don't. They teach salvation by grace alone through faith alone. Armninians use a more Biblical deffinition of works. Biblical works are the things that are done for otheres such as caring for the elderly, widows and orphans and so on.Do Arminians teach salvation by works? If yes why?
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