lol it would appear soanother question they still sin so is it God making them sin or their free will?
Are you suggesting the devil makes you sin then?Just who are you in bondage to prior to salvation?
God, sin, or free will?
God Bless
Till all are one.
Just who are you in bondage to prior to salvation?
God, sin, or free will?
God Bless
Till all are one.
God doesn't make anyone sin. People sin because they want to and their wills are enslaved to it. Calvinists believe men have wills and are responsible for their choices, but without God's Grace man is unable to do good. Men are slaves to sin, and they must be made free: They are not already free as Arminian theology teaches.lol it would appear soanother question they still sin so is it God making them sin or their free will?
Are you suggesting the devil makes you sin then?
If you have no free will then who is responsible for your sin?
I love the Flip Wilson remark.
Man before and after salvation is responsible for their actions.
However, can a dog be anything other than a dog?
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." -Jer. 13:23 (KJV)
If your a sinner prior to salvation, is it your "free-will" or is it because "sin dwells in you"? (Rom. 7:17)
If you sin after salvation, is it because of free-will or because sin dwells in you?
And again, we have never argued against "free will". What we have argued against is the extent of "free will".
God Bless
Till all are one.
Honestly, I find it really amusing how quick many on this board are to misunderstand what I believe and then to declare a checkmate. I say A, but then they say I believe B and try to end the conversation.
Men are not raping, murdering, and pillaging because they know it is wrong and that there are consequences to their actions. Sinners can still feel love and empathy, but what they cannot do is please God, because they reject Him and follow after the lusts of their flesh. True righteousness is not simply being kind to fellow sinners, but it is to love God and the things of God. No one on their own seeks God because everyone is born spiritually dead. If a person is to come to Christ then they must be made alive and set free by the Spirit of Christ.You say all Men are slaves to sin have no free will, then why are people not raping murdering and pillaging. If man can not help but do evil then he should simply do what ever his heart desires. Yet that is not the world. They can choose to steal or not to. they are not forced. They can not keep God's law because they are salves to sin, but they still know right from wrong. God said the gentiles were judged because the law was written on there hearts they knew right from wrong before they did it. So see your total depravity no free will theory does not work. There are two gods being describe in this thread which one is the real one?
Men are not raping, murdering, and pillaging because they know it is wrong and that there are consequences to their actions. Sinners can still feel love and empathy, but what they cannot do is please God, because they reject Him and follow after the lusts of their flesh. True righteousness is not simply being kind to fellow sinners, but it is to love God and the things of God. No one on their own seeks God because everyone is born spiritually dead. If a person is to come to Christ then they must be made alive and set free by the Spirit of Christ.
Ephesians 2:4-5
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Romans 8:6-8
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Can a natural man dead in his transgressions make himself spiritual and seek after God? Or must God make Him alive first? Can the unregenerate understand the things of God?
1 Corinthians 2:10
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
I preach the God who is sovereign over human affairs. I do not deny that men have wills, but those wills are enslaved to sin/rebellion against God; they are not free. Men can choose whether to be good or evil on human terms, but not with regards to God, because they are spiritually dead in their sins and will not seek Him. God does not simply force men to be saved while they don't want to be, rather He enlightens our hearts and minds to actually want to be saved with the salvation He purchased on the cross. It is by His grace that we desire salvation, come to Christ, and are saved.so you admit they have free will to choose right from wrong. Consequences does not cut it unless you are suggesting everyone who enforces man's laws is born again. Sorry that bad far out weight the good, if everyone did what they desire there would be no stopping them. So they know right from wrong, so they have free will to choose between Good and evil, yet you say a person can not make that choice with God how is that? You think God said you are saved weather you like it or not? and you go to hell weather you would follow me or not. Just what God are you preaching?
I preach the God who is sovereign over human affairs. I do not deny that men have wills, but those wills are enslaved to sin/rebellion against God; they are not free. Men can choose whether to be good or evil on human terms, but not with regards to God, because they are spiritually dead in their sins and will not seek Him. God does not simply force men to be saved while they don't want to be, rather He enlightens our hearts and minds to actually want to be saved with the salvation He purchased on the cross. It is by His grace that we desire salvation, come to Christ, and are saved.
The difference is that I believe one who has been enlightened by God and inwardly called by His Word will not choose to say no: lest God's grace, eternal love, and work on the cross be to no effect. Arminian theology teaches man is able to resist God's calling and love; Calvinist theology teaches that God's calling and love are irresistible. This is the I of the TULIP acronym.so why are you against arm they say the same thing. It is by hearing the word of God a person comes to repent. upon hearing the word there is a choice, when they see God for who he is they say yes to God salvation or no thank you. This is what Judas did, and what Hebrew 6 says those who taste of heaven and turn away can never be brought back. Arm never say it by works of men they say it is by work of God. A person is not forced to be saved, they chose to accept the gift. because i accept a gift does not mean i earned it in any way it does not change the nature it is a gift. Stop arguing. It is the same thing.
well have fun with thatThe difference is that I believe one who has been enlightened by God and inwardly called by His Word will not choose to say no: lest God's grace, eternal love, and work on the cross be to no effect. Arminian theology teaches man is able to resist God's calling and love; Calvinist theology teaches that God's calling and love are irresistible. This is the I of the TULIP acronym.
I find no fault in you for believing free will theology. Before conversion we lead lives of rebellion, and so it is logical for us to assume that we are free. We do what is not God's will, therefore we think we are free to do whatever we please. The problem is that the unsaved man has no desire for God or the salvation He provides; many hear the Word and reject it. We who believe were made willing to believe. God chose us to be His sheep; we are the good soil that bears fruit and we are those who desire Him. Some he left to be goats; they are full of thorns and enslaved to the darkness of their fallen hearts and minds.well have fun with that
I find no fault in you for believing free will theology. Before conversion we lead lives of rebellion, and so it is logical for us to assume that we are free. We do what is not God's will, therefore we think we are free to do whatever we please. The problem is that the unsaved man has no desire for God or the salvation He provides; many hear the Word and reject it. We who believe were made willing to believe. God chose us to be His sheep; we are the good soil that bears fruit and we are those who desire Him. Some he left to be goats; they are full of thorns and enslaved to the darkness of their fallen hearts and minds.
I know quite well there are many who profess to be saved and are not. It's a sad reality, but Christianity for many is simply a religion they follow to feel good and righteous. Some don't understand that Christianity is about salvation from our sins in Jesus Christ. Ultimately, Jesus knows who is in His flock and who is not: He knows who has a God-given faith rather than a religious one. I'm not quite sure why you shared your story, but I do agree with what you learned from it.Tell you a story and this is not directed at any one just something I learned. I grew my mom taking me to church, i watched my brother baptized. As a teenager it was always the same my mom telling the pastor I was a bad kid him saying I was not saved. I telling Him I was saved and had accepted God. He would lead me through a prayer and pronounce me saved, this happen about every new church we went to. I grew up beliving My mom and brother were saved and then later that my dad had gotten saved. It was hard for me because I never understood how people who were God's children could be so abusive and plan mean to me. After i started my degree my school puts us through a serious of test just about every course to make sure we are saved. By my school and speaking to those in ministry I realized i was saved. I also realized what my family did and the evil they did did not fit with God's children or a repentant heart or with being born again. The next few years i questions there salvation and what they knew about God. What i found was they only knew catch phrases. None of them could give me an account why they were saved. The number one answer was i go to church. I compared that to my number one answer. Because Jesus Loves me and paid my debt in full and I accept Him and have given my self to Him. Mine is Jesus center and biblical, there is building center and not biblical. When i said things like you have to obey God they argued with me they did not. My brother reasoned God would not destroy sodom if 10 good people were found he said there must be 10 people in the world who follow God, so God would not destroy the world. They never wanted to hear about Jesus return did not even want to think about it. After I weight all the facts and my education grew and God gave me sight. I saw not one of them were saved, that they all said they were for different reasons but it all had to do with them. My mom said it because people said she was a good person when she said it. My dad said it for his now ex wife who was a minister. My brother said it because my parents said he was a good person for it and could not face the fact he is a wretched soul. I am wretched soul. its ok because God loves me and forgives me.
But what i learned is people i was so sure were saved were not, and in the end we are all going to be very surprised by just who is saved and who is not. As God said there are some i have not revealed that they belong to me but will in the last days when all will be revealed. Just what i have learned.
I am not sure I believe God causes every little storm. It seems the laws of nature can handle that. I understand God does effect the weather when ever He pleases but I am not sure it is always. Was it Isaiah who prayed it would not rain and it did not for 3 years? There certainly is biblical support for God controlling the weather, but i think it is an exception instead of the norm.
When you say mid trib is man made are you speaking of the rapture theory of this? I am pre my self.
DUNKIRK. In June 1940, 400,000 British and French soldiers were trapped on the north coast of France at Dunkirk. The Nazi forces were only ten miles away and could have cornered Allied troops. However, at this time thick fog and clouds settled over the beaches. The English Channel also became unusually calm, and many small boats from England were able to ferry soldiers across to safety. The protective weather pattern lasted nine days while the men were evacuated. The Allied army was thus preserved to fight another day. Winston Churchill called the evacuation of Dunkirk a “miracle of deliverance (Does God control the weather? Does he send deadly storms?)
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