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Terms are created by the church in order to describe what Scripture reveals.
Ok, then show where the "term" total depravity is revealed in the scripture?
Why don't you just admit it ain't in the scripture? Nowhere is it alluded to in the scriptures that man was ever totally depraved. But you keep at it, you might learn something about what you believe, to be false.
To be saved you must believe on Jesus Christ,his death and resurrection.
Did you read the rest of what I presented? I was not just commenting on the Calvinists debate tactic.
I would like to have what I stated as being the means to how men become saved, debated.
I believe its the answer to how men get saved, and explains why Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and yet only some get saved - not all.
It also shows how what the Calvinists see wrong with Arminianists thinking, is true up to a point... And, how Arminianists see the mechanical cold approach too many Calvinists take, as being impossible in the light of the nature of God's love, justice, and mercy.
Grace and peace, GeneZ
To be saved you must believe on Jesus Christ,his death and resurrection.
Now? How that takes place? How the Father draws men? How the Father enables men to believe in Christ? That is the topic of this thread.
Since this is the question at hand, lets answer it.
What this whole thread is really boiling down to is two things:
1) God's Sovereignty. The Calvinists position.
2) Man's free will. The Arminian position.
I must say, that in all fairness, the Calvinists side wins the debate.
That was not in all fairness. You did not read the introductory posts that explained that both Calvinism and Arminianism have problems.
And, what you just did? Was what the complaint was. Calvinists always assume one is Arminian if he does not line up with Beza's position.
This has got to to with something other. I suggest you start from the beginning and follow the unfolding of the concept, please. You just did what was the first complaint!
Grace and peace, GeneZ
Now? How that takes place? How the Father draws men? How the Father enables men to believe in Christ? That is the topic of this thread.
Did you not say:
I have answered you question and you complain about it.
Geez......
I'm outta here, talk about double talk?
God Bless
Till all are one.
In many places.
Here's a few..
If it were not for the intervention of God in men's hearts? If he did not supply the needed grace to enable us to be placed in a position to evaluate God's reality? No one would be saved. .Psalm 14:2-3 (New King James Version)
"The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one."
Romans 3:9-11 (New King James Version)
"What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
As it is written:
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God."
You are thinking on another plain of thought. Of course that is what man ends up doing when he is saved. The question of the Calvinism - Arminianism debate? Is how man reaches the point where he is able to believe in Christ. That is what this thread is about.
Man can not simply believe in his own power and ability. Our depravity we inherited in the fall will not allow for it. We do not have the power to overcome our spiritual blindness on our own.
Man must certainly can since he never inherited depravity from anyone.
Jesus, said so.
He also said no one can go to the Father except through Him.John 6:44 (New International Version)"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Now? How that takes place? How the Father draws men? How the Father enables men to believe in Christ? That is the topic of this thread.
Only God gives us the ability to have faith. That is what grace is.To be saved you must believe on Jesus Christ,his death and resurrection.
Only God gives us the ability to have faith. That is what grace is.
God, through the gift of grace, gives us the capacity for faith. At that point, our free will responds to that grace by faith in Christ. This premise is entirely biblical. If you think that you have the capacity for faith without grace, then that is an ancient heresy called semi-pelagianism.
You cannot have faith without grace. The Scriptures are explicit on this matter.That is NOT was Grace is about.
Mis-directed or not, everyone has faith in something or faith in nothing. Faith is simply the ability to believe. Grace is the overflowing or revealing of the Nature of God. Man's sees it and makes a decision about it. He makes his choice. To whatever degree he follows after what he chooses is the degree of his sincerity to what he believes.
Ormly said:While you are at it consider changing your "clever" format style for easier reading and replying
You cannot have faith without grace. The Scriptures are explicit on this matter.
[bible]romans 5:2[/bible]
[bible]ephesians 2:8[/bible]
[bible]acts 18:27[/bible]
[bible]galatians 1:15[/bible]
Really! Show me that one.
Shouldn't have to.
Grace is not a gift, salvation is and it is by the overflowing of the Nature of God in physical form now made Spiritual; Jesus Christ.
Get that sortted out and you will see Grace to be something you were born with and are given to understand and protect.
Grace is not a gift? Do you even own a bible?
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