Arguments for and against masturbation

Wow I forgot how scared of human sexuality Christians where.

It isn't mentioned in the Bible, your not harming anyone, your not harming yourself, must not be a sin.

I find it ridiculous that people are saying its sex with an object. Sex, or technically, intercourse can only happen between two consenting people, male and female. Unless your hand is a person, i'd give up trying to push that drivel.

Also, the early church fathers where influenced by the anti sexual attitudes of the worlds academics at the time. You'll excuse me if I find a moral philosophy regarding sex that was scrounged up by a bunch of dusty old men who where afraid of a woman's naughty bits, to be just a tad bit irrelevant.

sniperelite7 said:

Wow I forgot how scared of human sexuality Christians where.

It isn't mentioned in the Bible, your not harming anyone, your not harming yourself, must not be a sin.

I find it ridiculous that people are saying its sex with an object. Sex, or technically, intercourse can only happen between two consenting people, male and female. Unless your hand is a person, i'd give up trying to push that drivel.

Also, the early church fathers where influenced by the anti sexual attitudes of the worlds academics at the time. You'll excuse me if I find a moral philosophy regarding sex that was scrounged up by a bunch of dusty old men who where afraid of a woman's naughty bits, to be just a tad bit irrelevant.

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yes don't deny yourself anything to follow Christ, Mr. Clinton, you obviously know what sex is and what it isn't, if there isn't a male and female body part making contact its not sex at all.

sniperelite7 said:

Wow I forgot how scared of human sexuality Christians where.

It isn't mentioned in the Bible, your not harming anyone, your not harming yourself, must not be a sin.

I find it ridiculous that people are saying its sex with an object. Sex, or technically, intercourse can only happen between two consenting people, male and female. Unless your hand is a person, i'd give up trying to push that drivel.

Also, the early church fathers where influenced by the anti sexual attitudes of the worlds academics at the time. You'll excuse me if I find a moral philosophy regarding sex that was scrounged up by a bunch of dusty old men who where afraid of a woman's naughty bits, to be just a tad bit irrelevant.

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1 Corinthians 6:18-19
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?



not harming anyone?, your harming yourself

sniperelite7 said:

Wow I forgot how scared of human sexuality Christians where.

It isn't mentioned in the Bible, your not harming anyone, your not harming yourself, must not be a sin.

I find it ridiculous that people are saying its sex with an object. Sex, or technically, intercourse can only happen between two consenting people, male and female. Unless your hand is a person, i'd give up trying to push that drivel.

Also, the early church fathers where influenced by the anti sexual attitudes of the worlds academics at the time. You'll excuse me if I find a moral philosophy regarding sex that was scrounged up by a bunch of dusty old men who where afraid of a woman's naughty bits, to be just a tad bit irrelevant.

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I agree. I see by the signature you read Origen. I quoted him as well.

I think many people divide things as holy and sinful and things have to fall into one of those two. Since masturbation can't be holy it must be sinful.

sniperelite7 said:

Wow I forgot how scared of human sexuality Christians where.

It isn't mentioned in the Bible, your not harming anyone, your not harming yourself, must not be a sin.

I find it ridiculous that people are saying its sex with an object. Sex, or technically, intercourse can only happen between two consenting people, male and female. Unless your hand is a person, i'd give up trying to push that drivel.

Also, the early church fathers where influenced by the anti sexual attitudes of the worlds academics at the time. You'll excuse me if I find a moral philosophy regarding sex that was scrounged up by a bunch of dusty old men who where afraid of a woman's naughty bits, to be just a tad bit irrelevant.

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Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...

Masturbation is in the bible.
I argue that a person who is sexual active compared to one who are their differences of diseases.
The sexual abstinence is done in wisdom rather than fear, although it can be because of fear...

Genesis 38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the foolish god*: wherefore he slew him also.

He masturbated and got killed for it.

Scripture (the devil) teaches polygamy. Scripture (God) also teaches its better to be single.
With a foolish god who demands that people populate the earth, I think putting away debauchery is putting up the good fight.

Maybe your not aware your harming someone?
Peace be with you.

Phantasman said:

A commandment from God against sexual desires? Show me. I want to see a commandment, not a verse that tells me something is wrong. It was a time when harlot mongering and rape were rampant. Jesus taught us to get us away from how patriarch the society was towards women. People get abstinence mixed up with control.

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Here are some:
139. Not to have sexual relations with your mother Lev. 18:7
140. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife Lev. 18:8
141. Not to have sexual relations with your sister Lev. 18:9
142. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter Lev. 18:11
143. Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter Lev. 18:10
144. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter Lev. 18:10
145. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter Lev. 18:10
146. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter Lev. 18:17
147. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter Lev. 18:17
148. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter Lev. 18:17
149. Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister Lev. 18:12
150. Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister Lev. 18:13
151. Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife Lev. 18:14
152. Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife Lev. 18:15
153. Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife Lev. 18:16
154. Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister Lev. 18:18
155. A man must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
156. A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations Lev. 18:22
158. Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father Lev. 18:7
159. Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father's brother Lev. 18:14
160. Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife Lev. 18:20
161. Not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman Lev. 18:19

eachallberg said:

Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...

Masturbation is in the bible.
I argue that a person who is sexual active compared to one who are their differences of diseases.
The sexual abstinence is done in wisdom rather than fear, although it can be because of fear...

Genesis 38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the foolish god*: wherefore he slew him also.

He masturbated and got killed for it.

Scripture (the devil) teaches polygamy. Scripture (God) also teaches its better to be single.
With a foolish god who demands that people populate the earth, I think putting away debauchery is putting up the good fight.

Maybe your not aware your harming someone?
Peace be with you.

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Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up (seed / children)to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...
Children. It is about children. It has to do with nothing else. It is all about having children.

HawkBlue27 said:

It's a sin.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17

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And masturbating defiles your body how? Relieving pressure? I'm sure God is very offended Who decided the natural functions of your own body are dirty and evil? You or God?

I'm not pointing out you in particular b/c there are many people I address this to:

Aren't there enough "sins" already without you projecting your own opinions onto the Bible and declaring them sins also?

People seem so obsessed with "sins" that they become enthralled by calling things sins that aren't just so they can create new ones. Does the feeling of denying yourself something ease your guilt? Or do people just like puffing themselves up by pointing out all the arbitrary things they don't do?

true2theword said:

personally I find masturbation abit closer to homosexuality in all reality, I mean think about it, your touching and stimulating an organ of the same gender as yourself, not much different then doing it to your friend.

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LOL! I guess everybody is gay, and if they aren't they're lying about it!

These conversations are nothing if not entertaining, you will never expect to see opinions this ridiculous on most other subjects...

GuardianShua said:

Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up (seed / children)to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...
Children. It is about children. It has to do with nothing else. It is all about having children.

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I know this passage is often interpreted about being about producing children, or masturbating. When I read it it seems Onan's duty was to give his brother's wife a child, and instead he used this as an excuse to have sex with her and he came on the ground, maybe so he could keep having sex with her.

I don't know about most guys here, but I'd imagine the prospect of more sex is better than less sex. (Pretty far-fetched theory, I know)

The fact that he [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on the ground does not come near to proving that he even masturbated to begin with. Just because you have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside of a woman's body does not mean you have to touch, as I'm sure most people realize that a person doesn't [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] instantly when he has an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

I don't know why people are so determined to say onan's story is about masturbation, b/c it doesn't seem to be based on any sort of logic. I can say for certain God doesn't kill people for doing it b/c we would all be dead, most of us hundreds if not thousands of times over. I can only guess that people have an intense desire to feel guilty for things. Like Elaine Pagels wrote, (and I'm quoting poorly I'm sure) "People seem like they would rather feel guilty because it means that the bad things that happen to them are within their own control. If they aren't deserving when bad things happen, it takes away all control."

This is a slippery slope for people to go down, and pretty soon people will be saying ridiculous things like mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex, etc etc etc, between married people is sin, despite the general consensus that what married people do is holy union.

But look, if people want to feel guilty for absolutely everything then by all means, go for it! I'm not here to stop people from being martyrs to their own fabricated causes.

GuardianShua said:

The Catholic Church forbids their priest to marry which has its origin in Gnosticism.

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If you're refering to Thomasine Christians, I'm pretty sure they weren't Gnostic.

At any rate I'm certain at least two of the Gnostics on this forum think marriage is A-ok.

eachallberg said:

Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...

Masturbation is in the bible.
I argue that a person who is sexual active compared to one who are their differences of diseases.
The sexual abstinence is done in wisdom rather than fear, although it can be because of fear...

Genesis 38:10
And the thing which he did displeased the foolish god*: wherefore he slew him also.

He masturbated and got killed for it.

Scripture (the devil) teaches polygamy. Scripture (God) also teaches its better to be single.
With a foolish god who demands that people populate the earth, I think putting away debauchery is putting up the good fight.

Maybe your not aware your harming someone?
Peace be with you.

Click to expand...

Onan died because he did not impregnate his brother's wife. He disobeyed an order from God to do so. In this case masturbation is not the sin. Failing to put the little dudes inside your dead brother's wife was the sin. Seriously, a little critical thinking can go a long way.

As for you Monica, let me know when your hand counts as a person. If it does, then i'll be impressed. As for hurting myself? one could start chaffing I assume. But then again eating food and drawing pleasure from it isn't sinful. But gluttony is, I guess thats ones perogative to have all things in moderation.

My gosh, the fear of sexuality is so strong, I mean I COULD be hurting SOMEONE through self pleasure. Perhaps I am hurting your moral sensibilities? Does that count? GOOD HEAVENS! I hurt more people when I litter...and I dont!

GuardianShua said:

Here are some:
139. Not to have sexual relations with your mother Lev. 18:7
140. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife Lev. 18:8
141. Not to have sexual relations with your sister Lev. 18:9
142. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter Lev. 18:11
143. Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter Lev. 18:10
144. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter Lev. 18:10
145. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter Lev. 18:10
146. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter Lev. 18:17
147. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter Lev. 18:17
148. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter Lev. 18:17
149. Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister Lev. 18:12
150. Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister Lev. 18:13
151. Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife Lev. 18:14
152. Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife Lev. 18:15
153. Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife Lev. 18:16
154. Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister Lev. 18:18
155. A man must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
156. A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal Lev. 18:23
157. Not to have homosexual sexual relations Lev. 18:22
158. Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father Lev. 18:7
159. Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father's brother Lev. 18:14
160. Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife Lev. 18:20
161. Not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman Lev. 18:19

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GuardianShua said:

Genesis 38:7-9
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the foolish god* slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up (seed / children)to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother...
Children. It is about children. It has to do with nothing else. It is all about having children.

Click to expand...

GuardianShua said:

Here, dodge this: What about the fact that it is physically harmful for males to not expel the content of their prostate. And why did God create a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for Females? No one ever answers this question.

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GuardianShua said:

Some Men and Women have brain damage, or some other condition that prevents them from having normal sexual desires. Such people may teach others that sex is a sin. If a person teaches that sin is required in touching yourself, then they do not know what they are talking about, do not listen to such people. Their thinking is twisted in that they think there is no other way. Did you know that there are also people who have phobias about sex?

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Bump

GuardianShua said:

Here, dodge this: What about the fact that it is physically harmful for males to not expel the content of their prostate. And why did God create a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for Females? No one ever answers this question.

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actually I did answer you, are you 13 yrs old, are you curious why women have a rectum too?

Well I am a woman Well over the age of 13.

If God kills everyone who ever mastrubated he forgot me (and most women I know) My husband and I have used objects during sex as well (some vegtable & some require batteries.) I also touch myself in some places while my husband touches me in others (^friend? who then the enemy? and I am by no means homosexual ) I would consider mastrubation to be more in line with a good massage or a chiropractic adjustment in some cases. Now some make it into an obsession as FORGE3 mentions or addiction..Addiction takes rule over a person and regardless of the substance or activity that is a whole different dog than just the act of mastrubation.

Cigarlady had some really good points in her post that seem passed over here by most. Prehaps because mastrubation is primarly considered to be a male issue, but if you knew how many women I know who do it to "spare their inexperienced or egotisical husbands" feelings you might be surprised.

If we are to deny ourselves pleasure in the process of following Christ I need also to organize a group and get busy boycotting football, and ice cream-surely Ice Cream is a sin since it is fattening, oh yeah and McDonald's and Lay's. Wow how about shopping malls-bath and beauty works.How about TV, books of fiction-the list is endless.

God is not against pleasure He just does not want it to be our primary focus in existence in any form.

I'm with GuardianShua who's point I believe is that the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] purpose is for pleasure. It is not necessary in childbrith or procreation, of course neither is kissing, nor hugging which I also engage in for pleasure.

Peace.

I want to ask a question, were in bible does it say that priests are allowed or not allowed to molest children? Anywhere in the Bible? I sure know what Jesus said about what is better be done to people that do something to Children, and it is not out of Contexts, But a lot of priests lately get into hot waters over it, now if bible says nothing about I guess it is allowed( away that) this is why Christians that take the holy name through the mud will get the harder judgment, we say we know God, but we know nothing, we know how to make Sin dwell in us. Instead of the Holy Spirit that gives us Victory. I have not come across It in the bible about molesting children. people, no some Christians are Out of their mind. be in Jesus mind and you might see some light. All sexual acts outside marriage that god intended for man and women
in a Godly way is wrong, I say God way. And even inside marriage it must be done by the the holy word of God. And these priest know nothing of God in my opinion anyway just driven by their sinful flesh.
Those priests are full of masturbation that led them to seek even more sick ways of pleasure. And to call people that want to only please God " brain damaged " and seek his will in their whole life. I guess for god I am a fool.

What do you call the masturbation on others as well as themselves, wisdom of God?
People take the holy name through Dirt as they are dirty. God is Holy. You are eather led by spirit or led by your flesh. What is from spirit is spirit and what is from flash is flesh.
Not all will exept that it is sin, but what happen when lots of disciples were following Jesus and Jesus started preaching some heavy stuff. Soon was only 12. Bible is for Gods chosen children and we must see more than letters. We can know the bible but not know the power of holy God.


"This is a slippery slope for people to go down, and pretty soon people will be saying ridiculous things like mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex, etc etc etc, between married people is sin, despite the general consensus that what married people do is holy union. "

Are you for real...are you joking or is this real statement. I cannot tell even when Christians speak the truth or Joke ( because of how much rubbish they participate in) .hmmm.....my husband is not a believer an as soon as God made me his own, my husband has not asked me oral sex , Anal is just wrong in everyway.. Why is that? So are you saying these thing are ok? Between married couple? What about Child marriages some of them in their opinion are very holy.
what you are sayin these things are allowed because you are married..repulsive and my holy God that i follow would not except these kind of things EVER.
Just because people say something is Holy, does not mean in Gods eyes it is Holy.




Peace

I'm having trouble following what you are saying.

Are you honestly comparing masturbation to child molestation?

And yes I'm being serious. I'm not saying everyone should do those things or even want to do those things. I think what married couples consent to is their business. I'm just pointing out that once people start fabricating arbitrary rules there is really no end to it.

I have been struggling with this for year and honestly I've come to the understanding that its completely wrong, and undermines Gods plans for you.

I've done some similar research reaching out to ppl and have gotten a lot of different answers but the main thing I had to understand is that I Knew it was wrong, but was looking for that right source or right person with the right words to tell me it's ok, so I can continue. I wasn't ready to give it up hole heartedly.

I believe if your questioning it you know it's wrong and even if it was completely ok, most of us become addicted to these images and they become an idol.

Lust is a sin. The Lord says if you fornicate with her in your mind you have already done it.

Even JOB makes a covent with his eyes not to look at a "lustful" woman.

Just seek scripture and beware ppl that tell you it's nothing to worry about... Even serial killer Ted bundy said the porn made me do it, and was his message to the world to be wary. Not saying touching yourself will lead you to kill, but you can see the extreme negative.