Arguments for and against masturbation

[lnname]

although this post as many others trying to show this sexual immoral act as sinful seem to get removed, I will attempt again to post scriptures that show masturbation is a sexual act outside the confines of marriage. If anyone thinks its not a sin then its also not a sin to have sex with a blowup doll or a vegetable. It appears that naming folks who teach that its not a sin is against the rules.

I've quoted you, so with any luck when the mods delete your post we'll have a bit of it left.

your arguments appear to be:

1)Masturbation is sex with an object
2)Sex with an object is wrong
therefore 3) Masturbation is wrong
​

and

1)Masturbation is sex outside marriage
2)Sex outside marriage is wrong
therefore 3) Masturbation is wrong

I really hadn't considered the first, but I think they both have the same problem. I am worried that I am so new on this forum and I use so many dirty words, or talk about so many thorny issues.

If a husband and wife are in different countries, they may want to do something called phone sex, which involves an act of masturbation on both part, and gives them many of the emotional benefits of real intimacy. The question is, in this one case, is it sex outside marriage? is it sex with an object?
​

 

[lnname]

How to goats touch? They have hooves!

Again I do worry that I am courting moderation. I don't really want to describe goat masturbation. Its an act of self [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

 

[HCrossth2012]

I really hadn't considered the first, but I think they both have the same problem. I am worried that I am so new on this forum and I use so many dirty words, or talk about so many thorny issues.


Peace

If you are truly worried about Sin. Why is it a worry if you are exposing sin.
I would not.



If a husband and wife are in different countries, they may want to do something called phone sex, which involves an act of masturbation on both part, and gives them many of the emotional benefits of real intimacy. The question is, in this one case, is it sex outside marriage? is it sex with an object?
​

[/CENTER][/QUOTE]




Now to answer your question about phone sex Bit. I did that with my fiancé when I was Worldly/bad christian . WHY on earth would As a Believer and follower of Lord Jesus Christ would I do that. never. That's horrible for me now. Do christians really do this? Yes, why am I surprised. The whole thing is wrong for me.

Peace

 

[lnname]

Now to answer your question about phone sex Bit. I did that with my fiancé when I was Worldly/bad christian . WHY on earth would As a Believer and follower of Lord Jesus Christ would I do that. never. That's horrible for me now. Do christians really do this? Yes, why am I surprised. The whole thing is wrong for me.

Your posts on this thread have been nothing but up-building, I am sure the moderators won't mind.

Thanks for having the honesty to say such a thing. Do you think it was wrong because all phone sex is wrong (or all masturbation is wrong), or because you were unmarried?

Try not to feel to guilty, Christ died for all of your sins, and he has forgiven all of them, and doesn't think ill of you for them, even if you you still do.

 

[HCrossth2012]

Peace

At the time it was not wrong( but is wrong in the eyes of God) but back then I was following my lust filled flesh and even then bit of guilt I had Because I was born to Christian family and had christian upbringing, but I still did back then what fleshly people see normal. Satisfy your own fleshly desires. But to answer your questions as follower of the Holy one. All Masturbation is wrong and all phone sex is wrong and all masturbation in marriage is wrong. My belief . No matter how you look at it..I think this how is God looking at me ALL the time...and also devil looks at how Christians are ALL the time as well so I wanna always in my life inside and outside , closed doors or open doors bring glory to my true saviour Jesus Christ.

Peace

 

[HawkBlue27]

It's a sin.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17

 

[Blackwater Babe]

Again I do worry that I am courting moderation. I don't really want to describe goat masturbation. Its an act of self [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Oh. Well, learn something new everyday.

 

[true2theword]

Ephesians 2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


I do not think that verse is speaking of touching yourself.

masturbation is lust of the flesh and of the mind, as the lust of the mind begins first, then the flesh follows what its no longer able to fight, and simply gives into doing.

thats why the first step in overcoming (lust of the flesh) is getting control over what you allow yourself to think about. If you can get control over stinking thinking, you would be amazed at how little effort it takes not to give into fleshly desires

 

[true2theword]

It's a sin.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17

 

[true2theword]

I thought the discussion of masturbation in phantasmans thread (masturbation) was great, but I thought that if it had some neater ground work layed (like you would in the opening comments of a debate) it might be even better. I realize the following might look TLDR, but please read and contribute, I am deeply interested in hearing what you say.

What are the arguments for and against masturbation? Why do you choose to or choose not to?

My arguments for:
1) Complete sexual inactivity promotes genital infections and cancers, and is therefore unlikely to be the will of God

2) Animals (such as goats, otters and chimps) touch if they are kept without those of the opposite sex. Animals are unaffected by the fall and are not sinful.

3)Typically arguments against masturbation are of the form: "all acts of masturbation are wrong because they are all have a property p" where the property p is something that the arguer perceives to be immoral. Notably, if p is immoral, than this only proves that "acts of masturbation are wrong if they have the property p" ; if p is the property of being based on lust, or being extramarital, than a person who masturbates to a feeling of love for his spouse would not proved to be doing an immoral act. In these arguments the person making them also needs to find justification for the idea that p is immoral.

4) Masturbation is not condemned in most English translations of the bible.

my arguments against:
1) The Greek word pornea often translated fornication, has been suggested to include masturbation.

Although this suggestion is predomiantly made by those who also believe it includes all non procreative sex, or all acts of non vaginal sex (even marital ones).

2) Historically, when the church, or people of the church have mentioned it, it has been more often to condemn it than to defend it.

I would say that anyone saying it is not listed in the bible as sin would of looked just as stupid as ex-president Clinton when he declared "Me and Monica DID NOT HAVE SEX!"

well if thats the case christians, it appears you can pick up all the prostitutes you want and allow them to perform that type of act, and the door to eternal life will swing wide open for you, because its not SEX!

personally I find masturbation abit closer to homosexuality in all reality, I mean think about it, your touching and stimulating an organ of the same gender as yourself, not much different then doing it to your friend

maybe thats why Paul mentions what you do with your members

I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

 

[true2theword]

The word flesh when describing things of the sexual nature, has always been linked to sex organs, we see this as far back as Ezekiels writings concerning the harlot

Ezekiel 23:20
For she lusted for her paramours,
Whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys,
And whose issue is like the issue of horses.

lust of the flesh would be the equivelent of saying "lust of your sex organ"



the deceitfulness of sin tells you that you can't get free from such a powerful master, but I assure you it can be done if you understand that this sin is a liar, if it is rebuked as a liar, and you stop feeding your mind the food it feeds on, you can control it completely.

even medical journals say masturbation INCREASES your sex drive not the opposite, so for all those who have been deceived by the poor advice of Dr. Dobson, as if masturbation were a remedy to control sex drive..........he basically told you to throw gasoline on you're house thats on fire.


and quite literally your temple is on fire if you don't listen to some simple steps to get self control over your (flesh/sex organs)

 

[GuardianShua]

masturbation is lust of the flesh and of the mind, as the lust of the mind begins first, then the flesh follows what its no longer able to fight, and simply gives into doing.

thats why the first step in overcoming (lust of the flesh) is getting control over what you allow yourself to think about. If you can get control over stinking thinking, you would be amazed at how little effort it takes not to give into fleshly desires

Food, shelter, and clothing are also worldly desires of the flesh. If you are correct, then suicide would be an option to look at.

 

[Forge3]

What is the highest good? What gives the most glory to God? I was addicted to touching yourself. That was not giving glory to God or the highest good. Personally I am called to single life and that does not mean just celbacy but chastity. I have stopped touching yourself with the grace of God but that in itself is not enough. I am also called to sublimate my sexual energy into works of charity and in fellowship. In that way I am using what God gave me for the HIGHEST GOOD and to give Him glory. We can argue about if it is a sin or not to touch until the cows go home. But we should not think what we 'can get away with' so we feel justified in pleasuring ourselves. We need to look at what is the very most we can do in God's service.

These bodies are temporal and heaven is a reward beyond imagination and understanding. Even if we do our very best in grace to serve God we shall not 'earn' it anymore than a man with one shiny penny can buy the whole world. Yet we can give our all out of love from having received love, and in faith. We need to look at it that way.

 

[GuardianShua]

What is the highest good? What gives the most glory to God? I was addicted to touching yourself. That was not giving glory to God or the highest good. Personally I am called to single life and that does not mean just celbacy but chastity. I have stopped touching yourself with the grace of God but that in itself is not enough. I am also called to sublimate my sexual energy into works of charity and in fellowship. In that way I am using what God gave me for the HIGHEST GOOD and to give Him glory. We can argue about if it is a sin or not to touch until the cows go home. But we should not think what we 'can get away with' so we feel justified in pleasuring ourselves. We need to look at what is the very most we can do in God's service.

These bodies are temporal and heaven is a reward beyond imagination and understanding. Even if we do our very best in grace to serve God we shall not 'earn' it anymore than a man with one shiny penny can buy the whole world. Yet we can give our all out of love from having received love, and in faith. We need to look at it that way.

The Catholic Church forbids their priest to marry which has its origin in Gnosticism.

 

[GuardianShua]

masturbation is lust of the flesh and of the mind, as the lust of the mind begins first, then the flesh follows what its no longer able to fight, and simply gives into doing.

thats why the first step in overcoming (lust of the flesh) is getting control over what you allow yourself to think about. If you can get control over stinking thinking, you would be amazed at how little effort it takes not to give into fleshly desires

What about the fact that it is physically harmful for males to not expel the content of their prostate. And why did God create a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for Females?

 

[Forge3]

The Catholic Church forbids their priest to marry which has its origin in Gnosticism.

In the history of the Church Priest were becoming land owners and having concubines. Pope Gregory took 'extreme measure' to curtail that corruption by imposing celbacy.

 

[GuardianShua]

Ephesians 2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


In the past, commandments were given for matters of sexual morality. Most likely that is what that verse is about.

 

[Phantasman]

Ephesians 2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


In the past, commandments were given for matters of sexual morality. Most likely that is what that verse is about.

A commandment from God against sexual desires? Show me. I want to see a commandment, not a verse that tells me something is wrong. It was a time when harlot mongering and rape were rampant. Jesus taught us to get us away from how patriarch the society was towards women. People get abstinence mixed up with control.

 

[true2theword]

Food, shelter, and clothing are also worldly desires of the flesh. If you are correct, then suicide would be an option to look at.

more than likely anyone who promotes masturbation as not being a sin, is someone who is completely powerless to stop and is severely addicted,

like the alcoholic its not a problem, they can't see why addiction is a problem, addiction by clear definition is total loss of self control,

do you want to see all the scriptures that speak about Christians and self control

 

[true2theword]

What about the fact that it is physically harmful for males to not expel the content of their prostate. And why did God create a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for Females?

are you old enough to be discussing this content?......you're coming across as if you're like about 13 yrs old