Arguments about God

[-Vincent-]

I'm still curious how a cryptic message from the 50s that has yet to come to pass, convinces you that you 'interact' with God.

I got to know God better as I got older. I simply don't ask him questions, I ask him to act. I know him completely through his actions.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I got to know God better as I got older. I simply don't ask him questions, I ask him to act. I know him completely through his actions.

What acts did God perform, and what makes you think he did them?

 

[Gareth]

How can your "god" have likes and dislikes, woden? Why should you're "god" even listen to people's prayers, there is a chance other life is out there, why should 'he' listen to humans?
You ask "god" for help, but given me one instance where he has answered and told you what to do! Give me evidence of the "creator", give me reason to think the universe wasn't created by a chaos.

My Goddess is there and not, She is and isn't - She is the universe, one and many. I don't pray for her help, I make my own descisions based on what I'VE learned, not what She tells me - because She can't speak.
She isn't a physical entity and She isn't spiritual.

(I only personify the universe as a Goddess, because women bring forth life - the universe has no gender (shockingly))

I know that in the Pagan belief system, such as it is, each person or group has it's own set of core values to which "worship" is practiced. So the Goddess is not either a physical nor spiritual entity, so in what do you believe? What value is something if it is not real to you? If the Goddess is the universe in a non-gender sense, how does a Pagan put an identity to it? It doesn't make sense. Yet there are Pagans who know Jehovah is the name of God and that Satan is God's adversary.

You asked for evidence in a Creator. Chaos isn't a creator. The weather is actually according to the weather people formed by chaos, and not by a process. But the evidence that we need is right in front of us. Looking around at the natural world or at yourself would you ascribe all you see to a Goddess, a Creator or evolution? Just because someone like myself believes in a supernatural entity such as God doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else. At least there is proof for the existence of God. The Bible is as yet still the most reliable source of information about God and everything about that One. You have a different set of values. They have, up to this point in time served you fairly well, no question. I have something that I trust will serve me well even up to my death and beyond.

 

[The Nihilist]

I got to know God better as I got older. I simply don't ask him questions, I ask him to act. I know him completely through his actions.

Is there a good reason we shouldn't just assume you're a schizophrenic?

 

[Legion.As.One]

I know that in the Pagan belief system, such as it is, each person or group has it's own set of core values to which "worship" is practiced. So the Goddess is not either a physical nor spiritual entity, so in what do you believe? What value is something if it is not real to you? If the Goddess is the universe in a non-gender sense, how does a Pagan put an identity to it? It doesn't make sense. Yet there are Pagans who know Jehovah is the name of God and that Satan is God's adversary.

You asked for evidence in a Creator. Chaos isn't a creator. The weather is actually according to the weather people formed by chaos, and not by a process. But the evidence that we need is right in front of us. Looking around at the natural world or at yourself would you ascribe all you see to a Goddess, a Creator or evolution? Just because someone like myself believes in a supernatural entity such as God doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else. At least there is proof for the existence of God. The Bible is as yet still the most reliable source of information about God and everything about that One. You have a different set of values. They have, up to this point in time served you fairly well, no question. I have something that I trust will serve me well even up to my death and beyond.

My belief system is set by MY moral ethics, and that of the human society in which I live, they weren't made by a higher being for me to follow, I learned and was taught them.
I put an identity to the universe to make it easier for me - just as a child does a pet rock (eg.); because I am a child in the (metaphorical) eyes of the universe. My life is much less than a micro-second in Time.
On quite the contrary. Chaos IS everything. The weather formed by chance, and chance is chaos, unordered. Nothing is perfect.

Looking around me, I see no creator, that is higher or a better being than myself. A mother mouse is a carrier and bringer of life. I see no way in which my life is more important or has more meaning than hers.

I never said anyone was better than anyone else. Because no one is. Everything is equal. Even little me is equal to a supernovae explosion. You and I and everything in our solar system was part of a supernvae explosion once, too.

I worship everything, I give thanks for eveything and to everything. Keeping in mind everthing is one in the universe. I am monotheistic and polytheistic. The way I see it your "god" and satan are one. They are really the 'bad' and 'good' sides in humanity.
But then again, the terms 'evil' and 'good', apply only to humanity. The universe is neither bad nor good. And thats what chaos is - without order, random, taking no sides.

There is no evidence of a creator, only of creation itself.

(I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, it was not my intention, I only wish to have a good debate)

 

[-Vincent-]

Is there a good reason we shouldn't just assume you're a schizophrenic?

What difference does it make? God will answer anyones sincere prayer, schizophrenic or not. He can respond to you, and that is the only important thing that you need to know from me.

 

[The Nihilist]

What difference does it make? God will answer anyones sincere prayer, schizophrenic or not. He can respond to you, and that is the only important thing that you need to know from me.

So no is what you're saying.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What difference does it make? God will answer anyones sincere prayer, schizophrenic or not. He can respond to you, and that is the only important thing that you need to know from me.

You kinda missed the point: how do you know that you're actually hearing God? How do you know that it isn't your own brain deluding you?

 

[-Vincent-]

You kinda missed the point: how do you know that you're actually hearing God? How do you know that it isn't your own brain deluding you?

I only asked one question, a long time ago. He answered, once to my one question.

It seems that you are really very afraid of what I have told you. Everyone does fear God, which is probably why you don't seem to know anything about God answering your prayers.

Some people are very attached to a small model of what reality is, but have not realized that they believe their little ideas about reality with no real justifications. What reality is has to be learned, you are not born with a true doctrine of metaphysics.

 

[Eudaimonist]

It seems that you are really very afraid of what I have told you. Everyone does fear God, which is probably why you don't seem to know anything about God answering your prayers.

What I see is a desire to weed out truth from falsehood. Maybe he fears falsehood, but I don't see any fear of God.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I only asked one question, a long time ago. He answered, once to my one question.

Which is exactly my point: how do you know God answered your question? You say he did, but (as The Nihilist said) is your own mind not a more probable explanation? It has a fantastically powerful capacity for self-delusion, after all.

It seems that you are really very afraid of what I have told you. Everyone does fear God, which is probably why you don't seem to know anything about God answering your prayers.

Fear? How can I fear something which I don't believe exists? Why would I fear something that, if true, would be monumentally awesome? I'm simply trying to get you to answer my question .

Some people are very attached to a small model of what reality is, but have not realized that they believe their little ideas about reality with no real justifications. What reality is has to be learned, you are not born with a true doctrine of metaphysics.

The same applies to you: you have your ideas about reality, but what justification do you have?

 

[tanzanos]

Fear? How can I fear something which I don't believe exists? Why would I fear something that, if true, would be monumentally awesome? I'm simply trying to get you to answer my question .

Heathen! Just you wait till you feel the wrath of FSM with his scalding noodle appendages stroking your back like a cat o nine tails! Eye there mate! Ye shall feel the sting of the almighty and he shall put the fear in your loins till ye remembers the day ye first took breath on this God forsaken land! Quiver with fear Wiccan child!

Actually the reason why fundamentalists use FEAR is because:

Forget
Everything
And
Repent

 

[Tikiman06]

I only asked one question, a long time ago. He answered, once to my one question.

It seems that you are really very afraid of what I have told you. Everyone does fear God, which is probably why you don't seem to know anything about God answering your prayers.

Some people are very attached to a small model of what reality is, but have not realized that they believe their little ideas about reality with no real justifications. What reality is has to be learned, you are not born with a true doctrine of metaphysics.

Interpreting reality to see God in it, is just that: one person's interpretation. The "truth" you see in God answering your prayers is a limited, subjective truth, and not a universal, objective truth.

Furthermore, I don't believe everybody fears God. I personally do not fear a being that is omni-benevolent, as it would have only good intentions, there is nothing about it that makes me afraid.

 

[-Vincent-]

Which is exactly my point: how do you know God answered your question? You say he did, but (as The Nihilist said) is your own mind not a more probable explanation? It has a fantastically powerful capacity for self-delusion, after all.


Fear? How can I fear something which I don't believe exists? Why would I fear something that, if true, would be monumentally awesome? I'm simply trying to get you to answer my question .


The same applies to you: you have your ideas about reality, but what justification do you have?

Concerning the bottomless pit, God had said, "It will become known as the black hole." In the late 1950's no one knew of black holes. Black holes were first called singularities by physicists. When the first physical discoveries were made about them they were called black holes in the news reports, which was I believe during the 1970's. So what was said, I believe, contained prophetic information. Perhaps there will be a reason that a black hole will attract a lot of attention and be commonly refered to as "the black hole". It is not very likely to gain valuable information about astronomy from a delusional state of mind.

The scriptures say, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Awe is reverent fear.

I test my ideas about reality. I believed that God exists, and I have found that he does exist through my own efforts.

I hope you can develop enough faith to confront God, but I am not the source of God, you will never get God from simply analysing these forum messages.

 

[Tikiman06]

Concerning the bottomless pit, God had said, "It will become known as the black hole." In the late 1950's no one knew of black holes. Black holes were first called singularities by physicists. When the first physical discoveries were made about them they were called black holes in the news reports, which was I believe during the 1970's. So what was said, I believe, contained prophetic information. Perhaps there will be a reason that a black hole will attract a lot of attention and be commonly refered to as "the black hole". It is not very likely to gain valuable information about astronomy from a delusional state of mind.

The scriptures say, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Awe is reverent fear.

I test my ideas about reality. I believed that God exists, and I have found that he does exist through my own efforts.

I hope you can develop enough faith to confront God, but I am not the source of God, you will never get God from simply analysing these forum messages.

Black holes were considered singularities, but now we know that they have a lot more volume than a singularity would.

The scriptures were written by humans, and therefore subject to flaws. I believe in my heart of hearts that religion is not something you read and learn in a book.

In reference to testing the reality of God, your scriptures (Matthew 4:7) say do not test the Lord thy God. I am pretty sure this is where faith comes in.

Also, I think it presumptuous that you assume I am lacking in faith. Furthermore, confronting something is to approach it with hostility, which I surely would not do to God. No, if there is one emotion that describes my feelings about God, it is Love. The polar opposite of your fear. Fear is not the beginning of wisdom at all, understanding is. Do we progress by fearing other things and people? Or do we progress by trying to understand and empathize with them?

 

[-Vincent-]

Also, I think it presumptuous that you assume I am lacking in faith.

I was not making a reply to anything that you posted...

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Concerning the bottomless pit, God had said, "It will become known as the black hole." In the late 1950's no one knew of black holes. Black holes were first called singularities by physicists. When the first physical discoveries were made about them they were called black holes in the news reports, which was I believe during the 1970's.

The term 'black hole' was first used to describe these singularities in the mid '60s, I believe.

Do you not find it interesting that your 8-year-old self saw a 'bottomless' pit, and a voice in your head said it would be called a 'black hole'? What are pits but black holes?

What makes you think 'God' was referring to the physical phenomenon?

So what was said, I believe, contained prophetic information. Perhaps there will be a reason that a black hole will attract a lot of attention and be commonly refered to as "the black hole". It is not very likely to gain valuable information about astronomy from a delusional state of mind.

With all due respect, I'm not entirely convinced that any astronomical information was given. Did you know it was about astronomy before the term was first applied to celestial singularities?

The scriptures say, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Awe is reverent fear.

I test my ideas about reality. I believed that God exists, and I have found that he does exist through my own efforts.

I hope you can develop enough faith to confront God, but I am not the source of God, you will never get God from simply analysing these forum messages.

Perhaps, but I don't see the need to waste my life searching for something that may not even exist. Especially considering the fact that billions of people search for (or claim to have found) God, yet not one can justify this fantastic claim.

Even your own testimony is dubious: an 8-year-old 'heard' the words 'black hole' after looking at a bottomless pit? That's as prophetic as starting at the Sun, and then thinking 'bright disc'.

 

[The Nihilist]

Did he come up with a reason for us not to just assume he's a schizophrenic yet?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Did he come up with a reason for us not to just assume he's a schizophrenic yet?

Nope...

 

[-Vincent-]

Did he come up with a reason for us not to just assume he's a schizophrenic yet?

Well, I am not schizophrenic. But, why is it that you choose to insult me with the question? I have not insulted you.