ARGGH!!! What is the Truth?

[heartnsoul]

Lol!!! Duh!!!!

Ok, I'll ask the question of myself. Why don't I want to be wrong??? I wouldn't care if I was right or wrong about something that didn't affect me personally...but if it meant changing my behaviour or current course of action then it might be a liiiiiiiiittle bit harder to change my view on something.


Ok...brain still ticking over...

Hi Northstar,
I don't see it as people afraid to be "wrong." I truly think each person feels justified and valid in his/her own opinions/interpretations. It still has to come down to where each person is in his/her own walk with God. Everyone is at different points of understanding of the true heart of God. In time, as each person grows more mature in Christ, he/she will have a more complete understanding of who God is...thus the interpretations will match that belief as he/she grows. So it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of perspective. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Grishnak]

I was looking through all the previous arguments on this forum and was wondering why people react so badly to each other all the time...which is what led me to ask the question about 'finding truth'.

I've been mulling this over for a while, and in my thinking so far I've sort of come to the conclusion that people react so badly because they want their own 'interpretation' to be the *right* one. But why?

What is so scary about being wrong???

Now where are you headed?

Are you attempting a diversion here to cause us to question why we believe what we believe so you can present us with YOUR ''interpretation"?

If thats not what youre up to, then Id say that we all read with preconceived notions caused by granddads old timing religion or possibly we draw conclusions from other peoples ideas and dont seach the whole of scripture for ourselves before we attempt to teach.

Ive not met the man yet who picked up a bible one day having never heard a word of doctrine from someone else to help him along his merry path of error.

Nothing is scary about being wrong.
Are you afraid that you may be wrong?

 

[~Nikki~]

Hi Northstar,
I don't see it as people afraid to be "wrong." I truly think each person feels justified and valid in his/her own opinions/interpretations.

I agree.

 

[Grishnak]

An option is something you may choose or not choose. IMHO, "May I divorce?" is not a legitimate question, but "Must I divorce?" is a legitimate question. Read Matthew 16-20 and see whether this makes sense.

I think I see what youre saying.
If it is still an option in our mind, then quite possibly the answer is NO, dont divorce.

If we are left with no choice thru the actions of a spouse, then YES, we must divorce.

an interesting take on things.

 

[~Nikki~]

Now where are you headed?

Are you attempting a diversion here to cause us to question why we believe what we believe so you can present us with YOUR ''interpretation"?

If thats not what youre up to, then Id say that we all read with preconceived notions caused by granddads old timing religion or possibly we draw conclusions from other peoples ideas and dont seach the whole of scripture for ourselves before we attempt to teach.

Ive not met the man yet who picked up a bible one day having never heard a word of doctrine from someone else to help him along his merry path of error.

Nothing is scary about being wrong.
Are you afraid that you may be wrong?

Nope...

I'm not discussing all this so that I can give any 'interpretation'...I believe I said that from the start.

 

[ChristyP4Christ]

I was looking through all the previous arguments on this forum and was wondering why people react so badly to each other all the time...which is what led me to ask the question about 'finding truth'.

I've been mulling this over for a while, and in my thinking so far I've sort of come to the conclusion that people react so badly because they want their own 'interpretation' to be the *right* one. But why?

I do not believe that the case, I think others just take some people wrong. I mean some times a person my be giving advice out of a good loving heart, but because we are not talking to that person face to face they can not see our emotions, sometiems we may seem we are coming off harsh or rude when we are really not....

 

[babyangel]

All I can say is we need to follow the bible and open up our minds to the scriptures and what is really being said. We can not look at one or two verses and say thats it. Can't divorce etc. There is much more to God and the bible that we will probably ever know. If I was face to face with God I think you all know what my first question would be. And I could see myself slapping myself in the head saying duh that is what he meant. I think the scriputures are there to be followed but followed with common sense. As I said God knows all and sees all. I think Abuse, desertion, unbelieving spouse, adultery are all good reason for divorce and we do not need to justify that to anyone. God also knows if one just got "bored" with their marriage. I do have another question though. If adultery breaks a marriage bond, then does it really matter who committed the adultery, I mean say a spouse wanted out of a marriage and knew the only way was to committ adultery, could they not just do it to break the bond get divorced and repent and start over? I am not saying this is right but I have had people say well the guilty can never remarry they are still bonded, but how can God bond you to someone who isnt bonded to you? I mean if you repent and become saved or whatever would you not have a fresh start? Is there any scriputre that says the guilty is alway guilty and remains bonded to the innocent and in NEVER free to marry?

 

[Crazy Liz]

I do have another question though. If adultery breaks a marriage bond, then does it really matter who committed the adultery, I mean say a spouse wanted out of a marriage and knew the only way was to committ adultery, could they not just do it to break the bond get divorced and repent and start over? I am not saying this is right but I have had people say well the guilty can never remarry they are still bonded, but how can God bond you to someone who isnt bonded to you? I mean if you repent and become saved or whatever would you not have a fresh start? Is there any scriputre that says the guilty is alway guilty and remains bonded to the innocent and in NEVER free to marry?

This is a problem with the "indissoluble bond" theory and its variations. It's a big part of the reason I don't hold to that theory, at least not 100%.

I think judgments of the church in times past that allowed only the innocent spouse to remarry were not intended to declare a bond that could not be broken, but to punish the wrongdoer, as well as try to prevent him/her from repeating the same thing with a new spouse.

There are other problems with this theory of an unbreakable bond. However, I would also say that there is something about the bonds that form between closely related people - husbands and wives, parents and children, etc. that is both psychological and spiritual and can never be completely erased. So there is some truth in the idea of a marriage bond being unbreakable. Even after one of the people dies, there are attachments, or remnants of attachments, that remain. So there is a perspective from which one can talk about permanent bonds, but from the perspective of it being breakable on one side but not the other, that doesn't work.

 

[babyangel]

This is a problem with the "indissoluble bond" theory and its variations. It's a big part of the reason I don't hold to that theory, at least not 100%.


I think judgments of the church in times past that allowed only the innocent spouse to remarry were not intended to declare a bond that could not be broken, but to punish the wrongdoer, as well as try to prevent him/her from repeating the same thing with a new spouse.

There are other problems with this theory of an unbreakable bond. However, I would also say that there is something about the bonds that form between closely related people - husbands and wives, parents and children, etc. that is both psychological and spiritual and can never be completely erased. So there is some truth in the idea of a marriage bond being unbreakable. Even after one of the people dies, there are attachments, or remnants of attachments, that remain. So there is a perspective from which one can talk about permanent bonds, but from the perspective of it being breakable on one side but not the other, that doesn't work.

Call me naive but, depending on my age I think I would find it hard to get on with life after the "love of my life" died. There is still a bond there. And I would not want that incredible love to be replaced by something else. Altough life is a funny thing and sometimes people are blessed to have 2 great loves. That is where some of the problem lies I guess, when you are married and have been betrayed in any way that special bond is not there, not emotionally anyways. How does God view the bond, when there is nothing to work with?

 

[Donnabing]

One of the ways that you can know the truth is to understand the context in which the scripture is given. Who is the targeted audience, and who was ment to read it origionally? Who wrote it and what had they experienced in their lives? Knowing the "full counsel of God" by reading the entire bible...not just reading it but studying it. I know that sounds like a huge task, but that is why we have our lives and each day to work at it. God will reveal His truth to you through the word, which is living and able to reveal answers to any question in life.

 

[apenman]

For example, if I'm happily married I could find it easy to say that divorce and remarriage is wrong under any circumstance, but if I was unhappily married I could probably give verses which I would interpret as saying I could divorce and remarry...

Is someone saying that divorce and remarriage is wrong under any circumstance?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Is someone saying that divorce and remarriage is wrong under any circumstance?

That would be the basis of my statement in post #19:

Divorce is never an option.

An option is something you may choose or not choose. IMHO, "May I divorce?" is not a legitimate question, but "Must I divorce?" is a legitimate question. Read Matthew 16-20 and see whether this makes sense.

What I meant is that divorce and remarriage is always wrong, but sometimes there is something wrong with all the available options. If all available options are wrong, it is necessary to do something that is wrong. In such situations we must choose responsibly. I think you've heard me say this before in other discussions of Christian ethics.

So yes, I would say that it is always wrong in the sense that God intends that marriage among God's people be permanent, and divorce always falls short of that. But permanence of marriage is not always possible. In fact, given our mortality, we might even say that permanence of marriage is always impossible. Every marriage on earth will end, one way or another.

Today is Good Friday, and during this Easter season our awareness is drawn to the fact that death is always wrong. Every death brings us up against the reality that something is wrong, and we can't make everything right. But Easter is the promise that God can.

 

[apenman]

What I meant is that divorce and remarriage is always wrong, but sometimes there is something wrong with all the available options. If all available options are wrong, it is necessary to do something that is wrong. In such situations we must choose responsibly. I think you've heard me say this before in other discussions of Christian ethics.

So yes, I would say that it is always wrong in the sense that God intends that marriage among God's people be permanent, and divorce always falls short of that. But permanence of marriage is not always possible. In fact, given our mortality, we might even say that permanence of marriage is always impossible. Every marriage on earth will end, one way or another.

Today is Good Friday, and during this Easter season our awareness is drawn to the fact that death is always wrong. Every death brings us up against the reality that something is wrong, and we can't make everything right. But Easter is the promise that God can.

OK, I'm on board with this. It's like saying that in a perfect world here's what would happen, but now let's deal with reality.

 

[seebs]

Maybe the reason there's no marriage in Heaven is that the whole thing has always been a bit of a compromise.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Maybe the reason there's no marriage in Heaven is that the whole thing has always been a bit of a compromise.

Maybe so!

 

[Yitzchak]

The question of why people find it so difficult to admit that they are wrong or that they could be wrong is an important and interesting question.

I can't answer for everyone else, but for myself I remember feeling as if part of being a Christian meant defending truth. As I have grown in my walk with the Lord, I have reliazed that the absolute highest call is love. As a close second behind that is faith. As I said, I cannot answer for others but for myself, the main reason I have struggled with admiting I was wrong is I was still in works and not fully in grace yet. Getting it "right" carries more of an edge to it when a mistake means hell or at least some harsh judgment or consequence for my failure. The more that I understand grace, the less important it seems to me to get it perfect.

 

[heartnsoul]

The question of why people find it so difficult to admit that they are wrong or that they could be wrong is an important and interesting question.

I can't answer for everyone else, but for myself I remember feeling as if part of being a Christian meant defending truth. As I have grown in my walk with the Lord, I have reliazed that the absolute highest call is love. As a close second behind that is faith. As I said, I cannot answer for others but for myself, the main reason I have struggled with admiting I was wrong is I was still in works and not fully in grace yet. Getting it "right" carries more of an edge to it when a mistake means hell or at least some harsh judgment or consequence for my failure. The more that I understand grace, the less important it seems to me to get it perfect.

Amen brother! May all of us learn to *love* more as Christ has loved us.

 

[Hortysir]

well, in my humble opinion...the way I've always interrpretted scripture is: Divorce is "okay", but yew still can't re-marry until the death of that person.
Sadly, today, too minny peepill fail to understand that "for better or worse" part!!!
...
.
. As for the "TRUTH" part of the kwestion razed originally..... the truth is what yew heer wen yew reed yer Bible. Yew can call it intuition, instinct, or even understanding, but it's God's Voice telling you the truth!!!
GodBless

 

[~Nikki~]

Thanks for all the replies...I've been away for a couple of days but still mulling over the whole issue...

It seems to me that anyone can make the Bible mean whatever they want it to mean...

For example people can justify why you should or shouldn't pay tithes...
People can justify why you should or shouldn't (as a woman) wear head coverings...
People can interpret predestination or free will from the Bible depending on how they've been taught...
Some people can justify why you should keep Saturday as the Sabbath, and others can justify why it's a Sunday...
Homosexuality is another one...
No divorce, or divorce and remarriage interpretations included...

Every single person can make the Bible say what they personally want it to say and will just say 'that's my interpretation of it...'

I think the only way to find the truth is to seek the truth. The truth at any cost. Even if it means changing one's behaviour so that our lives are lived in line with the truth. Otherwise we'll all just be finding scriptures that supposedly back up our own point of view and for as long as we live we'll find a hundred different people with a hundred different interpretations of the same scriptures because everyone interprets things so that they personally are not in the wrong!

Who is willing to seek the TRUTH???

I'm going to rise to my own challenge! I'm going to seek the truth even if it means coming on here and telling everyone I've changed my mind...
I'm going to seek the truth even if it means admitting I'm wrong.
I'm going to seek the truth even if it means letting go of patterns of behaviour, habits, lifestyle, finishing unhelpful friendships, forgiving people who've hurt me, restoring friendships with people, whatever it takes. I'm going to stop using the Bible to try and justify my behaviour, but see what the Bible says and modify my behaviour to fit God's Word! I'd encourage everyone here to do the same. Remember (someone else said this in another post) that when you point the finger it should always point inward and seek to find our own faults in order to change our behaviour...we can encourage and exhort others but not change them...only God can change people...

God bless everyone here!

 

[Grishnak]

Who is willing to seek the TRUTH???

I'm going to rise to my own challenge! I'm going to seek the truth even if it means coming on here and telling everyone I've changed my mind...
I'm going to seek the truth even if it means admitting I'm wrong.
I'm going to seek the truth even if it means letting go of patterns of behaviour, habits, lifestyle, finishing unhelpful friendships, forgiving people who've hurt me, restoring friendships with people, whatever it takes. I'm going to stop using the Bible to try and justify my behaviour, but see what the Bible says and modify my behaviour to fit God's Word! I'd encourage everyone here to do the same. Remember (someone else said this in another post) that when you point the finger it should always point inward and seek to find our own faults in order to change our behaviour...we can encourage and exhort others but not change them...only God can change people...

God bless everyone here!

The very first thing you need to do sis is understand that rules are put in place for our benefit.
One, its pleasing to God to see a desire in us to obey.
That apple wasnt going to kill anyone, but God said 'dont touch it'
When Eve did eat, there was no need to.
God had provided them all they needed, so only disbedience was involved when she ate, and then Adam.

Then also for our good our health and safety.

When Jesus is talking about ''I desired mercy and not sacrifice" His disciples were hungry.
They were breaking the sabbath, and Jesus never says otherwise.
When He defends Davids need about eating the showbread, again, He doesnt say that David wasnt breaking the law, but showing that there was a need to do so.


Killing is a sin, right?
What about having a man come into your home to rape and murder your young daughters?
Do you think God will let you burn in hell for taking this mans life?


Laws of the land, lets say speeding.
But your son was in the car with you on the way to the grocery store when a bee flew in and stung him. Now hes swelling up like a balloon, can hardly gasp for air. The hospital is 1 mile up the road and you can just make it there if you drive fast. waiting on an abulance will almost surely mean a dead son.
Will God or the state not understand your need here?


God made rules for man for us to follow.
We show Him we love Him when we obey Him. When we show a desire to.

Eve eating the fruit was just plain, unnecessary willful disobedience.
If she had only had that fruit for food and was hungry, you can bet God would have said "I desire mercy, take and eat"