ARG! Where do I fit?? Anyone feel Similar??

[Grace_Alone4gives]

With all due respect to my Catholic and Orothodox friends, this thread is mainly in question to Protestants as I do not wish a debate to start.

Secondly, this is more of a vent than anything as I find myself adrift in where I sit theologically.

Well, as many of you may know, I love to study Theology. I like studying different Soteriology, Ecclesiology and Eshatology views...and all other forms of theology. This is my priblem....

I think it is good to study and find where you fit, however, I find my walk was far less troubled prior to my study. I had a simple faith and a passion (I still have the passion). There was no doubt on where I stood theologically as I was never faced with it. Some days I wish I never dove in theological study. Why?

You see, I have no clue where I sit. There are many denominations out there and I am starting to depise that, because me, myself, can not find myself agreeing 100% with any one denomination.

For instance - I baptise my children, beliving in a covenant community, I do not feel they need to be a certain age. I tend to like Covenant Theology which in most cases supports my baptism beliefs...however, most Covenant Theologists are Calvinists - and well, I am not. So where does that leave me?

I do not believe baptism is a necessity for salvation but an obidience issue. Then again, I get confused on all the different beliefs as there are over 20+ baptism issues that nobody within the Body of Christ can agree on.

That takes me into salvation beliefs...I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian - I am somewhere inbetween. I lean towards the fact that a true believer in Christ can not fall away from Glory and lose their salvation. I believe man was fallen, in every meaning of the word, not able to choose to please God as they were enemies of Him. I believe that only when God regenerates us are we able to live for Him. I believe in Predestination of some sort, however can't get my head around it and am not convinced by prayer and bible searching that God Jesus died for a certain few. (though I guess He did cause we are not all saved - look at all the lost)

I am still in the air about the End Times - although I lean towards Pre-Wrath. I go to a Reformed Denomination (which I like), they hold to my baptism beliefs however many are Pre-Trib (which is uncommon in the Reformed denomination).

I believe the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today - I have seen them work, I have been so wooed by God that I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. I believe miracles, healings etc... are for today as well as all other Spiritual Gifts you see function in the church. Guess that sounds Pentecostal - HOWEVER, I do not believe in huge 'Miracle Crusades' and Healing Ministries and Christian Deliverance from Demons. I dont bark, moo or fall down everytime I "feel the Spirit move". (In my eyes the Spirit is always present and moving"I tend to feel awkward around teachers like Hinn and Copeland (no intent to slander).

You see - I do not know where I sit, some of my studies bring me to one conclusion regarding salvation, and a conclusion regarding baptism, and a conclusion regarding the end times - however...they all butt heads with each other in terms of denominations.

I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

 

[Terri]

Victoria

I'm in the same boat you are .... I just don't worry about it anymore.

A child like faith is all we need.

MT 18:2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I read all of the theological discussions on this board and am totally amazed that people get wrapped up in all that they do. I have been called an ignorant person who wants to remain in their ignorance on this board for not knowing all the "worldly wisdom" of different theological aspects--so be it.

As time goes by, God makes more and more clear to me. But, I will take my childlike faith over all of the theological discussion in the world!

Just turn everything over to God and don't worry about it--He will lead you into all truth! And, so what if we don't fit exactly with any denomination...

Love you in the Lord,

Terri

p.s. I agree with most of your beliefs!!

 

[Lotar]

Well I can't help you much

I have never been to a church I 100% agreed with myself.
It also seems that as I learn more, I agree less and less with my current church.
Theology is a hard thing, it makes it so you can't just sit in church and believe everything the preacher tells you. But it is also a good thing, we should know why we believe what we believe, and why we don't believe something else.
As I learn more, I am face with the idea that maybe all the denominations are wrong

 

[ukok]

HTD,

You write so coherently, my own thoughts - I have never been able to accept 100% any denominations beliefs wholly. I have wanted to, but i have been unable to. This has caused much confusion within my church attendance. I have felt hypocritical at certain churches, as i have not been fully accepting of their doctrines - and thus i have left. I have continued a faithful and solitary walk with the Lord ever since, attending Church sporadically, and feeling confused.

I have sought to give my all to God, and i pray that the LORD will guide me. I have become more and more interested in Catholicism and study its basis, doctrines, beliefs, with zeal - but even there, I am having a problem getting my head around certain elements of it. I am fully aware that many of the difficulties that i have are due to my own lack of understanding or misunderstanding, and that is why i feel unable to find a church home that i can commit to completely - because i'm an all or nothing kind of person- and i want to serve the LORD completely.

I love to educate myself theologically, but the more i learn, the less i understand sometimes- not that i am as well studied as i am giving the impression of being!

I sympathise with you.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Victoria

I'm in the same boat you are .... I just don't worry about it anymore.

A child like faith is all we need.

MT 18:2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I read all of the theological discussions on this board and am totally amazed that people get wrapped up in all that they do. I have been called an ignorant person who wants to remain in their ignorance on this board for not knowing all the "worldly wisdom" of different theological aspects--so be it.

As time goes by, God makes more and more clear to me. But, I will take my childlike faith over all of the theological discussion in the world!

Just turn everything over to God and don't worry about it--He will lead you into all truth! And, so what if we don't fit exactly with any denomination...

Love you in the Lord,

Terri

p.s. I agree with most of your beliefs!!

Thanks Terri - it is good to find someone in the same boat with me.
You actully follow the same school of though as I? Not many people do..lol

As I learn more, I am face with the idea that maybe all the denominations are wrong

I have to agree that every one has their errors I am sure. If there was a denom that was 100% correct, it would be hard to weed out of the 100+ that are not.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

HTD,

You write so coherently, my own thoughts - I have never been able to accept 100% any denominations beliefs wholly. I have wanted to, but i have been unable to. This has caused much confusion within my church attendance. I have felt hypocritical at certain churches, as i have not been fully accepting of their doctrines - and thus i have left. I have continued a faithful and solitary walk with the Lord ever since, attending Church sporadically, and feeling confused.

I have sought to give my all to God, and i pray that the LORD will guide me. I have become more and more interested in Catholicism and study its basis, doctrines, beliefs, with zeal - but even there, I am having a problem getting my head around certain elements of it. I am fully aware that many of the difficulties that i have are due to my own lack of understanding or misunderstanding, and that is why i feel unable to find a church home that i can commit to completely - because i'm an all or nothing kind of person- and i want to serve the LORD completely.

I love to educate myself theologically, but the more i learn, the less i understand sometimes- not that i am as well studied as i am giving the impression of being!

I sympathise with you.

Thank you

 

[poplarbythebrook]

Gods word teaches us that each man must work out his (or her) own salvation with fear and trembeling. No church can intrepret your own personal relationship with God. There is no unity in theology, because theology is man made not Spirit led. It is good to search to dig deep, Ask and you shall recieve.

 

[ukok]

what an excellent first post poplarbythebrook - and welcome to Christian Forums!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

...I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

Boy do I know exactly where you are coming from. Many years ago I wandered from one church to another. Catholic, Methodist, Evangelical, Pentacostal, eventually Charimatic. I really felt out of place everywhere I went and expressed this feeling to the Lord in prayer.
One morning I went to a Bible study at a Christian friends house. The minister prophesyed to me and told me exactly what I have been feeliing about these things, and comforted me by saying that there was a place for me. I have not worried about it ever since. Many people try to push their teachings and opinions down your throat... but in the end, all that matters is that you are true to what the Lord tells you. These people will not be there to take the heat when it is discovered how wrong you were for listening to them.
You stay true to the Word and what He is showing you. That is all you really have!

 

[poplarbythebrook]

Are most not? and thank you I hope to share what God imparted to me in life. It's been hard but worth it.

 

[ukok]

i suppose it depends upon where you are posting your first post - mine for example was in the New members forum - so it wasn't anything spectacular - you might like to wander over there and give everyone the opportunity of welcoming you.

I was going to bless you, but i don't see the icon to do so...hmm...

 

[ukok]

Ok, found it - don't know what happened then...

You can use these blessings to alter the appearance of your username and enter a signature etc...here goes...

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences in this thread. I felt like I was the only one, and that I was somehow a "loser" christian because I couldn't find a church I like. It's nice to know that there are others who go through the same thing. It makes one feel less alone.
I guess we all are living Christ's words when He said, "Foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." I will continue to follow Him no matter where He leads.
I can't find a denomination that I completely agree with, and when I think that I do, the people do not even know what the reason for the denomination. I went through catholic, baptist, assembly of God, nondenominational, plymoth brethren, presbyterian........I like the reformed faith best, but God has arranged my life so that I am called to attend the Roman Catholic Church at this time. Isn't that crazy?, A reformed catholic? I know what it is I am doing, and believe me, I have fought it tooth and nail. I know the doctrinal differences, and it is not for doctrine that I am attending. I simply have no other choice. The only way to describe it is like when Jonah was called to Nineveh. No way he wanted to go there but he had to. I could explain further but it is beyond the scope of this thread.
Let's just say that we should all follow where the Lord leads us. As the hymn says, "He sought me and He bought me with His redeeming blood. He loved me e'er I knew Him, and all my love is due Him. He plunged me to vicotry beneath the cleansing flood."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, HopeTheyDance and everyone else. I feel a peace in my spirit just from having read this thread.
Take care everyone.

JA

 

[admtaylor]

Hopetheydance,

I completely understand where you're coming from. I was raised in the Presbyterian church, a reformed style. I never got much of a bilbical education there, though. So, the world won out and I turned my back on God. As I went through life I fell farther and farther away from Him. Eventually debating Christians on why what they believed was false. I had gone from "belief", which I'm not sure if I really ever had, to fighting against the faith. The Lord showed His Grace by sending to me a woman that forever changed my life, my wife. She was a believer and we hit it off right off the bat. Although at the time we didn't agree on faith issues we married. Not something that's normally considered wise in church circles, heck or even in the Bible. God's hand was in it the whole time. Eventually my daoist (sp?) best friend converted to Christianity and at a later date he and my wife debated, and talked in front of me, about the faith. That night I became VERY angry. Of course looking back that was conviction and my will battling it out. Around three weeks later I came to the Lord while delivering construction materials to a new home. I got on my knees in a partially built house and prayed to receive Christ into my life. It wasn't an easy road after that. I couldn't find a church that I agreed with, let alone that my wife and I agreed with. For 3 years we bounced around from church to church. We finally found a great church that teaches from the Bible, a rare thing these days. But even here I've run into a thing or two I don't agree with or are questioning. As a previous poster stated. We have to work out our salvation with the Lord. Only He knows where we need to be and what He wants for our life. Go before Him pray to receive wisdom on this situation. He will guide you.

 

[admtaylor]

Oh my! I need to change my font values. It looks like I'm yelling at everyone. Ok, I fixed it.

 

[daphndon]

With all due respect to my Catholic and Orothodox friends, this thread is mainly in question to Protestants as I do not wish a debate to start.

Secondly, this is more of a vent than anything as I find myself adrift in where I sit theologically.

Well, as many of you may know, I love to study Theology. I like studying different Soteriology, Ecclesiology and Eshatology views...and all other forms of theology. This is my priblem....

I think it is good to study and find where you fit, however, I find my walk was far less troubled prior to my study. I had a simple faith and a passion (I still have the passion). There was no doubt on where I stood theologically as I was never faced with it. Some days I wish I never dove in theological study. Why?

You see, I have no clue where I sit. There are many denominations out there and I am starting to depise that, because me, myself, can not find myself agreeing 100% with any one denomination.

For instance - I baptise my children, beliving in a covenant community, I do not feel they need to be a certain age. I tend to like Covenant Theology which in most cases supports my baptism beliefs...however, most Covenant Theologists are Calvinists - and well, I am not. So where does that leave me?

I do not believe baptism is a necessity for salvation but an obidience issue. Then again, I get confused on all the different beliefs as there are over 20+ baptism issues that nobody within the Body of Christ can agree on.

That takes me into salvation beliefs...I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian - I am somewhere inbetween. I lean towards the fact that a true believer in Christ can not fall away from Glory and lose their salvation. I believe man was fallen, in every meaning of the word, not able to choose to please God as they were enemies of Him. I believe that only when God regenerates us are we able to live for Him. I believe in Predestination of some sort, however can't get my head around it and am not convinced by prayer and bible searching that God Jesus died for a certain few. (though I guess He did cause we are not all saved - look at all the lost)

I am still in the air about the End Times - although I lean towards Pre-Wrath. I go to a Reformed Denomination (which I like), they hold to my baptism beliefs however many are Pre-Trib (which is uncommon in the Reformed denomination).

I believe the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today - I have seen them work, I have been so wooed by God that I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. I believe miracles, healings etc... are for today as well as all other Spiritual Gifts you see function in the church. Guess that sounds Pentecostal - HOWEVER, I do not believe in huge 'Miracle Crusades' and Healing Ministries and Christian Deliverance from Demons. I dont bark, moo or fall down everytime I "feel the Spirit move". (In my eyes the Spirit is always present and moving"I tend to feel awkward around teachers like Hinn and Copeland (no intent to slander).

You see - I do not know where I sit, some of my studies bring me to one conclusion regarding salvation, and a conclusion regarding baptism, and a conclusion regarding the end times - however...they all butt heads with each other in terms of denominations.

I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

Hello Victoria.

It sounds as if you already hold to many reformed doctrines. I am a reformed Christian and I was thinking that it may be helpful to understand what it is that you find disagreeable about John Calvin's theology.

Is there anything in particular that is a stumbling block for you? You mentioned limited atonement but then you seemed as if you grasped the obvious connection between God's efficacy in redemption and the actual salvation of His elect. IOW, if God's purpose in Christ's substitutionary atonement was mankind wide redemption then we either have to acknowledge that God is capricious or He is unable to accomplish His desire. That, to me, does not invoke a feeling of confidence in the sovereignty of God.

Don't worry. I won't try to "push my teachings and opinions down your throat." I just feel it's necessary to know more about what you take issue with to be able to offer any advice, if indeed you are even looking for advice.

God bless

 

[Yitzchak]

I certainly have experienced the same Arggh feeling. It doesnt particularly bother me though recently.
For myself, I even go to synagoge sometimes (messianic and non-messianic) and find that the Lord is there too.
I like to imagine that if Jesus were to come today he would attend all kinds of churches and synagoges.
One thing I have found though. There is a huge emphasis on our connecting with God in church nowadays. Which is a good thing except the second part of the great commandment speech by jesus said love our neighbors as ourselves.This is sometimes neglected some.
The best church I have found for neighboring is the amish and mennonites although I havn't done an exhaustive search. The jewish community is pretty good about it also.
So for me the problem isn't just theology or doctrine, but also other concerns such as fellowship.I mean real fellowship, not just smiles and friendlyness. Fellowship that makes you feel like this person has the title of brother or sister not just as a theological statement but that there is that emotional connection as well.A person I could call at 3am in an emergency and a person I would feel comfortable dropping by uninvited.I suppose it means different things to different people but with my earthly family it is that way. I could phone my brother in a rainstorm and have him come and help me change my tire in the rain because I forgot to fix the spare. he would come because he is my brother. (and then later would schlop me upside the head for not planning ahead of course) it should be thus with my brother in the Lord also.
For me, this is the bottom line. We are not saved based on theology. It is about relationship. both between us and God and between us and our brothers and sisters.
One of my favorite verse in the whole bible is John 7:23. Which to many seems a strange verse to have as a favorite. It says.
" Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the sabbath?"
This verse is one of my favorites because I like to think it expresses the heart of Jesus for us about much more than just physical healing. It is about how and when and in what way we come to God to be made whole. Many say "no, no,no...they can't come that way!!" But yet jesus says come. wrong doctrines, wrong church, wrong way to pray. Come anyway.
I like to nickname this common sense theology. Fulfill the two great commandments(love God and love you neighbor) and the rest will be ok even if it has mistakes then God will just make an exception like he did for circumcision on the Sabbath because the heart is right.
[updown] MY OPINION [/updown]

 

[Auntie]

Great post Yitzchak!

 

[KelsayDL]

.

 

[filosofer]

Victoria,

You might very well into into the conservative Lutheran Churches (LCMS/WELS). We "look" Roman Catholic because of our liturgical focus, but we sound somewhat like evnagelicals, and we differ with the Reformed regarding predestination and the view of the Lord's Supper. Out focus is on the Gospel.

If you have questions, please respond.