ARG! Where do I fit?? Anyone feel Similar??

[Drotar]

With all due respect to my Catholic and Orothodox friends, this thread is mainly in question to Protestants as I do not wish a debate to start.

Secondly, this is more of a vent than anything as I find myself adrift in where I sit theologically.

Well, as many of you may know, I love to study Theology. I like studying different Soteriology, Ecclesiology and Eshatology views...and all other forms of theology. This is my priblem....

I think it is good to study and find where you fit, however, I find my walk was far less troubled prior to my study. I had a simple faith and a passion (I still have the passion). There was no doubt on where I stood theologically as I was never faced with it. Some days I wish I never dove in theological study. Why?

Whoa! That's backwards... not really. THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME! As it did to everyone. I had the same concern and same problem. I went to my mentor and he had the same problem too. Here's what went wrong: you cannot simply try to kick your religion into high gear by itself. First mistake I made was to substitute systematic theology for my devotionals. But here's the solution to your problem: Franscis Schaeffer once said that theology that was not applicable in your lifestyle is worthless theology. He's right. It's not that I was actually immorally. It's that I wasn't doing ANY volunteer and service work.

Solution I was given to our problem: For every 10lbs you learn of doctrine, we need to balance it with 10lbs of volunteer service work. Just good works for the sake of doing good works. My mistake was that I was trying to up my Christian knowledge, but I didn't boost up my service as well. Eventually, while my mind progressed further, my heart stayed immobile. That's why it seemed like I drifted. Because I was balancing myself.

Now I read systematic theology AND volunteer with house construction (bricklaying and carpentry) and elementary kids, and I'm LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!! Let me tell you about a guy I know who simply studied theology and didn't bother to progress in good works at all. He knew a lot, and what's more, he knew it. He got SO arrogant that he became a dangerous person to be around. His last name is Drotar. Hey, I'm not a very good liar. You'll see that same attitude on the forums from me sometimes. When you see me develop a sarcastic arrogant tone on the forums, you know what's up. I'm studying theology, but I'm cutting my time out of good works and service. I'm pretty transparent.

So the solution is simple: don't study theology unless you're going to go the extra mile with helping children or helping the community as well. My mentor told me that for every 10 lbs of doctrine, I need to balance it with 10 lbs of good works. Hey, I know I'm just another faceless name on the internet, but TRY THIS. I PROMISE this is the solution. And don't give up studying theology. Just keep adding good works and devotionals and you will love life and love Jesus!

You see, I have no clue where I sit. There are many denominations out there and I am starting to depise that, because me, myself, can not find myself agreeing 100% with any one denomination.

For instance - I baptise my children, beliving in a covenant community, I do not feel they need to be a certain age. I tend to like Covenant Theology which in most cases supports my baptism beliefs...however, most Covenant Theologists are Calvinists - and well, I am not. So where does that leave me?

Well, you don't NEED to be Calvinist, but if you're not going to be, understand that there are reasons for every link in every chain in theology. You can't see it yet, and neither can I, but we're still just opening our eyes and inspecting this close enough to see this. Almost every doctrine is linked to every doctrine. Once I started to learn Calvinism, I saw how now the TRINITY doctrine was tied into Calvinism! Calvinists are generally Covenant theologians, and Arminians dispensationalists because there are inherent links in the theological chain. Actually, I'm JUST discussing this RIGHT NOW in a thread a few under this one called "Question to Calvinists". I'm asking this same question and getting the same answer. Covenant Heart is explaining to me the soteriological and eschatological links between the two systems. I think you'd be intrigued to take a peek.

Talk about irony of ironies... You're a non-Calvinist covenant theologian... I'm a Calvinist dispensationalist! LOL!

I do not believe baptism is a necessity for salvation but an obidience issue. Then again, I get confused on all the different beliefs as there are over 20+ baptism issues that nobody within the Body of Christ can agree on.

That takes me into salvation beliefs...I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian - I am somewhere inbetween. I lean towards the fact that a true believer in Christ can not fall away from Glory and lose their salvation. I believe man was fallen, in every meaning of the word, not able to choose to please God as they were enemies of Him. I believe that only when God regenerates us are we able to live for Him. I believe in Predestination of some sort, however can't get my head around it and am not convinced by prayer and bible searching that God Jesus died for a certain few. (though I guess He did cause we are not all saved - look at all the lost)

Baptism does not save, because if it did, then either 1) OT saints were not saved or 2) God impusively just changed the requirement for salvation, out of the blue.

If you're interested in hearing my defense of the five points, it's simple writing, unaggressive and Biblical. If you would like to read it, then I'll post it. You'd be under no obligation to get involved in discussing or debating your personal views, it'd just be a thorough cordial defense of our beliefs, and a response to every objection imaginable against it. I would much like to post it here, and if I did you'd be under no obligation to respond. Just say the word and I'll arrange it. I used to be right where you are. This is where I used to stand. I know what you mean when you say you were neither Calvinist or Arminian; I used to be in between. Here's what I would say: Man fell at the Garden and gained a sin nature. God predestines based on foreseen faith, but in no violation to the will (it's a mystery no mind can comprehend). Christ died intending to save all men, when we come to faith, THEN we are regenerated (grace is resistible), and we cannot fall from the faith if we were truly saved. If you'd be interested in some light reading, I wouldn't mind it AT ALL.

I am still in the air about the End Times - although I lean towards Pre-Wrath. I go to a Reformed Denomination (which I like), they hold to my baptism beliefs however many are Pre-Trib (which is uncommon in the Reformed denomination).

That is unusual. I mean, pre-tribulationism has its roots in dispensationalism and fundamentalist hermeneutics. I'm pre-trib too, but I think that's interesting.

I believe the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today - I have seen them work, I have been so wooed by God that I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. I believe miracles, healings etc... are for today as well as all other Spiritual Gifts you see function in the church. Guess that sounds Pentecostal - HOWEVER, I do not believe in huge 'Miracle Crusades' and Healing Ministries and Christian Deliverance from Demons. I dont bark, moo or fall down everytime I "feel the Spirit move". (In my eyes the Spirit is always present and moving"I tend to feel awkward around teachers like Hinn and Copeland (no intent to slander).

Then I'd say we're PRETTY MUCH on the same page when it comes to Charismatic issues. (With the exception of the fact that I believe in gifts today, but not tongues, based on my Biblical understanding of what the gift of tongues/languages really was). But that's what I believe. I think I know a denomination PERFECT for you. Let me read on and make sure...

You see - I do not know where I sit, some of my studies bring me to one conclusion regarding salvation, and a conclusion regarding baptism, and a conclusion regarding the end times - however...they all butt heads with each other in terms of denominations.

I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Me too. I'm a 5 point Calvinist partial-dispensationalist pretribulation premillinnialist. NO denomination for me either. It does kind of stink.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

Here's the issue. THERE IS NO ONE TRUE DENOMINATION. There is no one true "church", institutionally speaking. There is a true CHRISTIAN. And these true believers, trans-denominationally make up the spiritual church. I don't believe any denomination is right, because no denomination has all the doctrines right, because not all the doctrines are known because not all doctrines have yet been revealed. The Scripture remains unchanged, but God reveals understanding of it progressively, as time goes on. The apostle Paul wasn't a Calvinist partial preterist amillennialist traducian consubstationist. He was a Christian. As time goes on, you can add to that. Trinitarian. Augustinian. Calvinist. Charismatic. Etc. As of yet, there is no true denomination UNTIL all doctrine is revealed and completely established, whether this will be at the Millennial kingdom or in heaven I do not know.

We often think as if Christ established all truth, orthodoxy, and rightful doctrine before He left. Not so. I used to have this mistake when I believed that Christ established the truth, and then there was a Great Apostasy until the Restoration. Doctrine is developed progressively, and thus, we'll never run into a denomination with the truth. Only a denomination that believes it has the truth based on their interpretations.

When Christ comes, the TRUE denomination will be established. In fact, charge that idea. There won't be denominations anymore. There'll only be CHRISTIANITY, understood to the extent that it has been revealed. TTYL Jesus loves you!

I think it's great seeing a woman get involved in studying the doctrines of the faith. I've been searching for FOREVER for a girl around here that shares that passion. Not to sound creepy, but I wish there was a girl around where I lived that shared the same passion as you, and a few years younger around my age.

Oh, and the denomination I think you'd fit in? The one I came directly from- the Southern Baptist Church. As pertaining to Calvinism and Arminianism, they run down the middle right where you are. They hold to covenant theology, and do not believe in baptismal regeneration. Some I have met are post-trib. It's not a PERFECT match, since they don't practice paedobaptism, but if you want a close match, I think you'd like that church. TTYL Jesus loves you! Again!

 

[Knight]

HTD,
I will try and help as best I can.

Well, as many of you may know, I love to study Theology. I like studying different Soteriology, Ecclesiology and Eshatology views...and all other forms of theology. This is my priblem....

I think it is good to study and find where you fit, however, I find my walk was far less troubled prior to my study. I had a simple faith and a passion (I still have the passion). There was no doubt on where I stood theologically as I was never faced with it. Some days I wish I never dove in theological study. Why?

You see, I have no clue where I sit. There are many denominations out there and I am starting to depise that, because me, myself, can not find myself agreeing 100% with any one denomination.

Don't look for a denomination. Look for a church that teaches from the Bible. Then you can see how close they stick to Biblical doctrine.

For instance - I baptise my children, beliving in a covenant community, I do not feel they need to be a certain age. I tend to like Covenant Theology which in most cases supports my baptism beliefs...however, most Covenant Theologists are Calvinists - and well, I am not. So where does that leave me?

I do not believe baptism is a necessity for salvation but an obidience issue. Then again, I get confused on all the different beliefs as there are over 20+ baptism issues that nobody within the Body of Christ can agree on.

We've had the infant baptism discussion before. This is not an essential doctrine. (Though I disagree with the infant baptism when there is not another baptism when they come to Christ.) Churches split over very picky issues when it comes to baptism. For example: the Bretheren church split because one baptised once in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit while the other dunked you once for each. (3 times)

Look to the scriptures on this issue.

That takes me into salvation beliefs...I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian - I am somewhere inbetween. I lean towards the fact that a true believer in Christ can not fall away from Glory and lose their salvation. I believe man was fallen, in every meaning of the word, not able to choose to please God as they were enemies of Him. I believe that only when God regenerates us are we able to live for Him. I believe in Predestination of some sort, however can't get my head around it and am not convinced by prayer and bible searching that God Jesus died for a certain few. (though I guess He did cause we are not all saved - look at all the lost)

When it comes to this issue I always encourage people to look at this from God's perspective. I do not call myself a Calvinist. This is because I have not studied Calvin's teachings. I became convinced of the doctrine of election by studying the Scriptures. Specifically Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 just to name a couple. RC Sproul has also written a couple very good books which address this subject. He is always referencing scripture.

Be at peace with this issue as best you can. The important thing about our salvation is our faith in Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins. How we came to that faith is of lesser importance. (I may take some flak from the Calvinists for that one.) Provided, of course, that we do not add our works to the work that Christ did on the cross.

I am still in the air about the End Times - although I lean towards Pre-Wrath. I go to a Reformed Denomination (which I like), they hold to my baptism beliefs however many are Pre-Trib (which is uncommon in the Reformed denomination).

I'm currently team teaching an adult Sunday School class on 1 Thessalonians. The elder I'm teaching with discussed the different end times theologies a couple of weeks ago. (Thanks to him since I did not want to teach that one.)

If you ask 20 theologians about the end times you're likely to get 30 answers. However, there are three critical things that all Bible believing Christians agree on with regards to End Times.

1) Christ will return.
2) Nobody knows when. (Not even Jesus)
3) We (Christians) are to be ready.

That's it. Everything else is disputible. There are solid Biblical arguments for and against every major End Times Theology. Be wary of any church that says you must believe a certain way on this. Even if you agree with them.

I believe the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today - I have seen them work, I have been so wooed by God that I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. I believe miracles, healings etc... are for today as well as all other Spiritual Gifts you see function in the church. Guess that sounds Pentecostal - HOWEVER, I do not believe in huge 'Miracle Crusades' and Healing Ministries and Christian Deliverance from Demons. I dont bark, moo or fall down everytime I "feel the Spirit move". (In my eyes the Spirit is always present and moving"I tend to feel awkward around teachers like Hinn and Copeland (no intent to slander).

I agree with you here. However I believe that gifts of the Spirit include gifts of teaching, discernment, wisdom, evangelism, etc. I believe that tongues is possible but in 20 years of being a Christian I've never seen it. Therefore I tend to think it's rare. In your experience, was this an actual language that you spoke or some sort of "spiritual language?"

I do believe that healings are possible. However, I do not necessarily believe that this gift is tied to a specific person.

I am in agreement with you on the "Miracle Crusades."

You see - I do not know where I sit, some of my studies bring me to one conclusion regarding salvation, and a conclusion regarding baptism, and a conclusion regarding the end times - however...they all butt heads with each other in terms of denominations.

I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

Sister, peace be with you. You do not need all the answers to be a Christian. Anyone that tells you otherwise is teaching heresy. All you need is what you already have. Belief in God and faith in Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.

As for everything else. Look to the Bible. The answers are there. Pray. Ask the Holy Spirit to open your mind to the Scriptures. Study what other theologians have said and written. Pray for guidance on these as well. Always check anything they say with the Bible.

Approach the Bible without preconceptions as best you can.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions. Or, you can PM me if you want.

In Christ,
Knight

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

You have all helped so much. Thank You.

I was talking to someone lastnight who said that if you ask someone what led them to their theological views, they all answer "Bible Spirit, Prayer, and the leading of the Holy Spirit" My concern is, how can the Holy Spirit lead in so many different places...The Answer - He doesn't.

I think sometimes we hear what we want to hear and spmetimes we don't. All my beliefs on theology are being challenged right now. I guess my fear is that I fall into depression quite easily (especally now that I am an emotional pregnanty mess) that I do not want to tackle my beliefs any further - but would just like to have peace over them.

I agree, doctrin will not be 100% correct until the Kingdom. You and I may find that what we belive concerning one issue in theology, was incorrect. I pray my theological errors will not interfer with my salvation - although I am sure it will not. I want to teach my children correctly and do not want them to follow any incorrect theology - but I can not guaruntee that, because I am human - and not one person I know has it down completely!

I guess only God knows. And I am sure he is displeased some days over all the battles between us Christians....Arminianism vs Calvinism, Paedobaptism vs credobaptism, Pre-Trib vs Preterist.

I want to return to my simple faith I had only a year ago. When theology was not questioned, or worried about. The problem is - I know to much about theology that my head wants to straighten it all out.

My husband has told my to be at peace. That all these differences between denominations are non-essentials. Then I question, how do we know for sure thay are non-essential when some people make some essential. (ie: baptism for instance)

However, I should listen to him, he is not troubled. He has a clear conceince towards God. I am sure God loves me regardless of any error in my theology. I am sure He wants me to be at peace with it all.

Thank you for your encouragement. If you have more comments, please post them. I love hearing encouragment from my brothers ans sisters in the Lord.

GBU

Victoria

 

[Knight]

Your husband is correct. In the majority of cases the differences between Protestant denominations are disputible matters.

This is not to say that this is always the case. I have a huge problem with any denomination that adds works to salvation. (Meaning: you must do something to be saved.)

I also have a problem with any that denies the deity of Christ.

However, for most of the cases you mentioned you are dealing with disputible matters. You are correct when you say that the Holy Spirit does not lead us in different directions. People tend to approach the Bible with preconceptions and thereby read what they want to.

However, I know that the Bible teaches us to not judge each other over these disputible matters. Romans 14 and 15 illustrate this quite well.

PS: Congrats on the pregnancy. When are you due? (You may have told me but I forget.)

 

[Knight]

You'll enjoy this article, then. Hopefully it can help you in your discernment.

(removed link)

God bless,
TIM

Interesting article but I do not believe this is the place to discuss that since it obviously challenges the Protestant church.

This is not a forum for that sort of debate.

 

[Drotar]

Well, your unborn child is first priority. It caused trouble for me, until I made an effort to double my good works in conjunction with theology reading. Now, I don't regret having ever read a single line.

However, since you're carrying your child, it's probably hard to get out and do community service projects and all. But by saying that learning about God is challenging your faith, I think that's exactly what Satan wants us to think. I don't think Satan rejoices when we pick up a book about the glory of God. I think his goal is to get us to put it down, or to confuse us while we're reading us and to make us feel inadequate meanwhile because we're not keeping up to par in our moral lives. I really think that studying the Scriptures systematically is what we're called to do.

I love my faith now. I would NEVER go back to who I was a year and a half ago. True, ignorance is bliss, but you'll only get depressed if you let yourself. I PROMISE it's not God that's giving you those feelings of sadness. Satan doesn't want you to learn, he wants you to never progress in understanding your faith. That's what I learned through trial and error. I felt confused and sad and mostly alone because when I started reading. But I promise that getting involved in service, church activities, and helping teach children, coupled with reading, redoubled my vigor. It inspired me to go into the ministry. Had I never studied, I would have wanted to go into cabinetry.

As for something being essential or unessential, I guess you'll never know until we take it upon ourselves. Here's the advice I give, that I myself am also following: Secretly find a mentor. An educated Christian who knows what he believes, but keeps it real. And watch what he or she does. I keep my eye on a friend of mine who now has the most sincere, genuine relationship with Jesus I've ever seen in my life. He bears the fruit of the Spirit so well that someone who meets him can't help but experience it. I make it a goal not to learn just intellectually, but morally. I want to be like that guy, even though I've kept that a secret to myself. Anywho, thanks for letting me get that out. Lots of stuff has been spinning around in my head about this. I dunno... TTYL Jesus loves you!

 

[Yitzchak]

You have all helped so much. Thank You.
I guess only God knows. And I am sure he is displeased some days over all the battles between us Christians....Arminianism vs Calvinism, Paedobaptism vs credobaptism, Pre-Trib vs Preterist.

I want to return to my simple faith I had only a year ago. When theology was not questioned, or worried about. The problem is - I know to much about theology that my head wants to straighten it all out.

My husband has told my to be at peace. That all these differences between denominations are non-essentials. Then I question, how do we know for sure thay are non-essential when some people make some essential. (ie: baptism for instance)

However, I should listen to him, he is not troubled. He has a clear conceince towards God. I am sure God loves me regardless of any error in my theology. I am sure He wants me to be at peace with it all.

Victoria

There is lots to agree on as well. praying, helping someone who is ill, loyalty to spouse and family. The scripture is not given so that we may be "know -it -alls "or gods to use a more theological term. One major grievance I have with christian culture is the false belief that having the holy spirit means I will know everything spiritual. My opinion is the reason there is such disagreement about many issues is people are speaking about things that God has left as a mystery until heaven.perhaps, the bottomline is very very simple. We are in this predicament because we are not to be lone rangers but we need God and we need eachother.
1 Corinthians 14:36
"what? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"
spoken to those in the Corinthian church who tryed to monopolize the meeting.
I think this is still true on a larger scale as well. except instead of individuals in a congregation, it is denominations in the world.

 

[Knight]

There is lots to agree on as well. praying, helping someone who is ill, loyalty to spouse and family. The scripture is not given so that we may be "know -it -alls "or gods to use a more theological term. One major grievance I have with christian culture is the false belief that having the holy spirit means I will know everything spiritual. My opinion is the reason there is such disagreement about many issues is people are speaking about things that God has left as a mystery until heaven.perhaps, the bottomline is very very simple. We are in this predicament because we are not to be lone rangers but we need God and we need eachother.

Excellent point.

We do have a tendancy to spend too much time focusing on what we disagree on.

Case in point: I had a very fruitful discussion over in the Catholic forum a couple of weeks ago regarding something that we agree on. It was very pleasant and uplifting.

I like your point about God leaving us a mystery until Heaven. I once heard the comedian Mark Lowry say that the reason Eternity is going to last so long is it'll take that long to straighten us out!

 

[Woodsy]

Great thread with some wonderful observations.
Good posts, Drotar.

 

[W.C.]

Well ,coming from me . I think we as Christians should read the bible for ourselves and pray for guidance. Going from church to church looking for doctrine is all wrong. We must get our understanding from the bible and not a church. The bible has a consistent theological view that does not contradict and is clearly evident in scripture. The Holy spirit gives us ears to hear.

 

[Ken]

Victoria, something that I would like to add is that its ok to have differences, we have biblical evidence of great men of God disagreeing with one another, yet they could still carry out God's work....

(Acts 15:37-41 NASB) And Barnabas was desirous of taking John, called Mark, along with them also. {38} But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. {39} And there arose such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. {40} But Paul chose Silas and departed, being committed by the brethren to the grace of the Lord. {41} And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches."

Blessings

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Excellent point Ken - thanks

 

[sracer]

Victoria, for the first 38 years of my life I was a Catholic... I could feel the legalism and rituals choking the Holy Spirit's work in my life, binding, friction, wearing away.

It was then that I started attending a non-denominational church... Calvary Chapel of Prescott, where they teach straight out of the Bible.

Being exposed to the unvarnished beauty of God's Word simply ignited the tinderbox in my heart and the Holy Spirit is now burning brightly.

This leads me to the point of theological confusion. God is consistent and He is unchanging. The Bible taken in totality, when compared to an engine fits together perfectly, operates smoothly, with no friction.

If you feel that various aspect are "binding"...or have detrimental friction, then it is most likely because of either (A) what you're being taugh skews slightly from God's word, (B) your application of what you're being taught is slightly askew.

My advice... pray. Pray a lot! Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, that He may reveal to you how it all fits together.... and for the gift of discernment so that you can sense what fits, what doesn't, and why.

 

[Peter]

I am responding to the original question and have not read any of the other posts.

Your questions sounds like the one I asked for 25 years. I finally found my answers 3 years ago. Now I have peace.

Peace.

Peter

 

[JesusServant]

With all due respect to my Catholic and Orothodox friends, this thread is mainly in question to Protestants as I do not wish a debate to start.

Secondly, this is more of a vent than anything as I find myself adrift in where I sit theologically.

Well, as many of you may know, I love to study Theology. I like studying different Soteriology, Ecclesiology and Eshatology views...and all other forms of theology. This is my priblem....

I think it is good to study and find where you fit, however, I find my walk was far less troubled prior to my study. I had a simple faith and a passion (I still have the passion). There was no doubt on where I stood theologically as I was never faced with it. Some days I wish I never dove in theological study. Why?

You see, I have no clue where I sit. There are many denominations out there and I am starting to depise that, because me, myself, can not find myself agreeing 100% with any one denomination.

For instance - I baptise my children, beliving in a covenant community, I do not feel they need to be a certain age. I tend to like Covenant Theology which in most cases supports my baptism beliefs...however, most Covenant Theologists are Calvinists - and well, I am not. So where does that leave me?

I do not believe baptism is a necessity for salvation but an obidience issue. Then again, I get confused on all the different beliefs as there are over 20+ baptism issues that nobody within the Body of Christ can agree on.

That takes me into salvation beliefs...I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian - I am somewhere inbetween. I lean towards the fact that a true believer in Christ can not fall away from Glory and lose their salvation. I believe man was fallen, in every meaning of the word, not able to choose to please God as they were enemies of Him. I believe that only when God regenerates us are we able to live for Him. I believe in Predestination of some sort, however can't get my head around it and am not convinced by prayer and bible searching that God Jesus died for a certain few. (though I guess He did cause we are not all saved - look at all the lost)

I am still in the air about the End Times - although I lean towards Pre-Wrath. I go to a Reformed Denomination (which I like), they hold to my baptism beliefs however many are Pre-Trib (which is uncommon in the Reformed denomination).

I believe the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today - I have seen them work, I have been so wooed by God that I have spoken in tongues on one occasion. I believe miracles, healings etc... are for today as well as all other Spiritual Gifts you see function in the church. Guess that sounds Pentecostal - HOWEVER, I do not believe in huge 'Miracle Crusades' and Healing Ministries and Christian Deliverance from Demons. I dont bark, moo or fall down everytime I "feel the Spirit move". (In my eyes the Spirit is always present and moving"I tend to feel awkward around teachers like Hinn and Copeland (no intent to slander).

You see - I do not know where I sit, some of my studies bring me to one conclusion regarding salvation, and a conclusion regarding baptism, and a conclusion regarding the end times - however...they all butt heads with each other in terms of denominations.

I am a theological mess. I prayed the other night - God, I just want to know the truth. I hope He answers. However, then I start thinking...is it that important that I figure out all this? I believe in a Triune God. I believe Jesus dies for my sins and only through Him can I have forgiveness and eternal life. I call Him Saviour.

Can I figure it out? There are hundreads of Theologins in this world, deceased and living. A handful of them I respect and I believe to be true men of God, However, out of these handful - can any 2 or 3 agree theologically....not really. And thus we have denominations.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Victoria

You are not alone Victoria. I know exactly how you feel.

 

[JesusServant]

Victoria, for the first 38 years of my life I was a Catholic... I could feel the legalism and rituals choking the Holy Spirit's work in my life, binding, friction, wearing away.

It was then that I started attending a non-denominational church... Calvary Chapel of Prescott, where they teach straight out of the Bible.

Being exposed to the unvarnished beauty of God's Word simply ignited the tinderbox in my heart and the Holy Spirit is now burning brightly.

This leads me to the point of theological confusion. God is consistent and He is unchanging. The Bible taken in totality, when compared to an engine fits together perfectly, operates smoothly, with no friction.

If you feel that various aspect are "binding"...or have detrimental friction, then it is most likely because of either (A) what you're being taugh skews slightly from God's word, (B) your application of what you're being taught is slightly askew.

My advice... pray. Pray a lot! Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, that He may reveal to you how it all fits together.... and for the gift of discernment so that you can sense what fits, what doesn't, and why.

Ah Speedracer. I loved that cartoon.

Very good post here and very good advice. You are exactly right. We are raised in a country where we are taught very differently from the Bible so when we read certain things, we think it's either wrong or we're reading it wrong. People try to find a way to read Scripture how they want it to read. Like men being the head of the household and women having to actually listen to their husbands. Not many women like this at all, but it's there. On the other hand if the man in question is a man of God and seeking to please God in the first place then his wife would probably have no qualms at all about following his lead in decision making. It all has to work together or it doesn't work.

 

[A. believer]

Hi Victoria,

I think I understand what you're feeling, and I think it's important that you keep in mind the reason why a Christian should study theology. Certainly there's no doubt whatsoever that we're saved by God's grace alone, and not by having all our theological ducks lined up properly. You're no less saved by a lesser understanding of who God is, than you are with a greater and more mature understanding. But I'm convinced that the more you know God, the more deeply will you appreciate Him and trust Him. Here's an article that I think might be helpful for you to put this in perspective.

Why Study Theology

This one, too, shows the practical implications of theology:

A Dying Man's Consolation--The Active & Passive Obedience of Christ

Have you ever read J.I. Packer's Knowing God? I'm reading it now, and I recommend it to you. I think you'll find it helpful and comforting.

God bless!

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Im still torn lately. I have been challeged constantly in my head on certain issues.
Of course, you pray and you seek counsel from other Christians - but they all claim the same thing.

I mean, ask 10 Christians with differing views on baptism, what led to their belief regarding it, and they all say, The Bible, The Holy Spirit and Prayer. Well....how can that be. What if 9 of them are wrong? Where did their conclusions come from. What if they have never been baptised...but should have been. What if someone did not baptise their infant, but should have...or vice versa. What if one was dipped, one sprinkled, one poured and one immersed. What is the outcome of all of that. 7 of the 10 may say, well, it is not a salvation issue, so the end factor does not matter...well what if they are wrong too?

This is just ONE out of SEVERAL areas I am working with.

I also differ in opther areas. I WILL NOT call the Catholic Church a cult just because I am Protestant. I will not say the Orothodox Church is boring because I do not follow thei liturgies. I will not say that Baptist folks are 'far from truth' because we have differing views on baptism.I WILL NOT say one denomination is more correct then aother...because, obviously, I doubt I have it all down either. In fact, I have been staying away from CF lately because every thread seems to be pulling the other person down. Protestant vs Catholic, Protestant vs Protestant etc...etc..etc.. It is bothering me and mixing me up more.

I pray about it, but do not feel led to any particular answer in any area.

Victoria

 

[sracer]

I guess it boils down to shedding theologicial positions because they seem like the "right" ones to you and going straight back to what the Bible says.

It is our weakness.

Study leads to knowledge.
Knowledge leads to Confidence.
Confidence leads to Pride.
Pride leads to....

And that is why we end up with differing views and theologies. At some level, it is our pride that is the cause... pride and arrogance in the notion that we have the facts so we must be right. I'm dismayed but not surprised at how many of our brothers and sisters are so emphatic in their views... brimming with the full confidence that they have the one and only correct one. Never considering that they could be wrong.

If we let the Holy Spirit guide us, He will give us what we need, when we need it. Can we push the Holy Spirit aside and try to forge ahead on our own? Sure... that's exercising our free-will. But that won't lead us in the right direction.

As I mentioned previously, I attend a non-denominational church whose pastor teaches straight from the Bible. Each and every teaching is relevant and applicable. I don't have that "torn" feeling... the various theological studies all mesh well together. The teachings with regard to Hermeneutics, Eschatology, Christology, Soteriology, etc. etc. all fit and are in harmony with Scripture...in harmony with a God who loved us so much that He sent His only Son to be sacrificed for our sins.

Do I have a full understanding of all the theological disciplines? Certainly not. But I'm learning more every day, and the more I learn, the greater appreciation, the greater the love, the greater the desire to serve our Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
I think that's a good sign.

You are in my prayers.

----
As for calling Catholicism a cult, I agree. It isn't the best way to lovingly show our Catholic brothers and sisters that they are under an unnecessary burden of legalism. A lot of this approach stems from people parroting what they've heard others say. These "talking points" are often repeated without a true understanding of Catholic beliefs.

When the opportunity arises, I provide my fellow born-again Christians with the correct information when they have an erroneous view of Catholicism. Being properly equipped will make them more effective witnesses and above all brings glory to God by being able to spread the "Good News" in love.

 

[Luchnia]

Posted by WC: Well ,coming from me . I think we as Christians should read the bible for ourselves and pray for guidance. Going from church to church looking for doctrine is all wrong. We must get our understanding from the bible and not a church. The bible has a consistent theological view that does not contradict and is clearly evident in scripture. The Holy spirit gives us ears to hear.

>>>>Very good post. I was reading a post earlier in this thread and was amazed that someone stated that there was no one church, but many. However, that is false and it is only one - the Body of Christ. These people that think that every so-called church is the body of Christ doesn't read God's word. Now, there may be members in various so-called churches that are in Christ' body and that would be acceptable. The Word does not teach, "You have millions of bodies of Christ."

Word up!