Are you saved?

[Stealth]

by Itself, Inward Faith Will Not Save.

John 12:42,43 - People "believed" in Jesus but would not confess Him, because they loved the praises of men more than the praises of God. Were they saved? (Cf. Rom. 10:9,10; Matt. 10:32,33.)

James 2:19,20 - Even devils believe. Are they saved?

James 2:14,24 - Can faith save without obedience? No, that is a dead faith (v17,20,26). Man is not justified by "faith only." This is the only passage that mentions "faith only," and it says we are not justified by it! Men say justification by faith only is a wholesome, comforting doctrine; but the Bible flatly says we are not justified by faith only!

Some say these people were unsaved because they have the wrong kind of faith: They have intellectual conviction, but they do not trust Jesus to save them. We are making progress! We now agree that faith is essential to salvation, but there are different kinds of faith! Faith is necessary, but there are kinds of faith that do not save, even when people believe in God and Jesus.

The issue then is: What kind of faith saves, and what does that saving faith include? Does it include repentance, confession, obedience to Divine commands, and even baptism?

Some Things besides faith that are Essential to Salvation

God's grace (Ephesians 2:4-10; 1:7; Titus 2:11,12; Acts 15:11)

Jesus' death and resurrection (Ephesians 1:7; Romans 5:6-10; 1 Peter 1:18,19; Revelation 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:17; 1 Peter 3:21)

The gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Peter 1:23-25; Acts 11:14; James 1:18,21; 1 Corinthians 15:1,2; John 8:31,32)

Learning God's will (Acts 11:14; John 6:44,45; Romans 10:17; 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21)

Faith (see the verses listed above)

Love (1 Corinthians 16:22; 13:1-3; Galatians 5:6; 1 John 4:7,8,

Hope (Romans 8:24)

Repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30; Luke 13:3,5; 2 Peter 3:9)

Obedience (Hebrews 5:9; Romans 6:17,18; 1 Peter 1:22; Acts 10:34,35; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9; Galatians 5:6; James 2:14-26)

Confession of Christ (Romans 10:9,10; Matthew 10:32)

Baptism (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Romans 6:3-7; Galatians 3:26,27; Colossians 2:12,13)

Faithfulness (Matthew 10:22; Revelation 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:58; Matthew 28:20; Titus 2:11,12; 1 John 2:1-6)

Church membership (Acts 2:47; 20:28; Ephesians 5:23,25)

Some of these are things God has done; others we must do. All are essential to our salvation. To say we are saved by faith alone in light of all these other verses is a conlusion based on excluding much of the gospel plan of salvation and only focusing on isolated verses.

 

[Stealth]

Many Passages Say Obedience Is Necessary.

1 Peter 1:22,23 - We purify our souls in obeying the truth.

Romans 6:17,18 - Servants of sin must obey from the heart in order to be made free from sin.

Hebrews 5:9 - Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

James 2:24 - Man is justified by works, not by "faith only."

Acts 11:14; 10:34,35 - Peter told Cornelius words whereby he would be saved. But the first words He said were that, to be accepted by God, people must work righteousness. This is true for all people, for God shows no partiality!

Matthew 7:21-27; Luke 6:46 - To accept Jesus as Lord (ruler, master) and enter the kingdom of heaven, we must do what He says. We may believe and confess Him yet be rejected, because we did not obey.

2 Thessalonians 1:8,9; Romans 2:6-10 - Receiving eternal life requires us to do good. Those who do not obey will be destroyed.

1 John 5:3; John 14:15,21-24 - Loving God requires us to keep His commands. If we do not obey, we do not love Him. Can one be saved if he does not love God (cf. 1 Corinthians 16:22; Matthew 22:37-39)?

The doctrine of "faith only" denies the necessity for all obedience to commands. All the passages we have just studied show that such a view is false doctrine. (See also Rev. 20:12-15; John 5:28,29; 1 John 2:17.)

The Bible says by faith we are justified before God,(Romans 5:1, Gal 2:16. 3:24)

The Bible also says that it is a "command" that we are to "have faith" in Jesus or God, (1 John 3:24, John 6:29, Mark 11:22, )

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of the Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as he gave us commandment.1 John 3:24

And "this is the will" of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.John 6:40

-If obedience to commands does not justify us before God in your doctrine, then you must rule out faith as being essential for justification, for believing in Jesus is a commandment. But since having faith is a commandment and you do not believe we have to follow commands to be justified, "then how is a person justified before God without obeying these commands to have faith?"
-If someone does not believe on Jesus, are they not being disobedient? Are they not dead in their sins? How can you say that obeying commands is not necessary to salvation when the Bible says you must obey the commandment of having faith?

 

[Stealth]

If Obedience Is Not Essential, Consider the Consequences.
Matthew 22:37-39 - Love is the greatest of all commands. If obeying commands is not necessary to salvation, then love is not necessary! Yet note 1 Corinthians 16:22.

Acts 17:30 - Repentance is a command. If keeping commands is not necessary, then repentance is not necessary to salvation! Yet note Acts 2:38; 3:19; 2 Cor 7:10, 2 Peter 3:9.

Romans 10:9,10 - Confession with the mouth is a command. If obeying commands is not essential to salvation, then confession is not essential! Yet the Bible says it is essential. And it is not just an inner act; it is an outward act done with the mouth, in contrast to faith in the heart. Like baptism, here is an outward, physical action that is essential to salvation. (See also Matthew 10:32,33.)

1 John 3:23; John 6:28,29 - Faith itself is a command; it is a work God tells people to do. If works and obedience are not necessary, then faith itself is not necessary! But if faith is essential, then we must abandon the view that obedience and works are not essential!

Acts 10:48, Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, Baptism is also a commandment of God, it is something all disciples must do. If obedience is not essential to salvation, then baptism is not essential either, but consider, Acts 2:38, 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, col 2:11-13, Gal 3:27

It should be clear that obedience to these new testament commands of faith are essential to salvation, so ask yourself, have you obeyed God from the heart and are you saved?

 

[Reformationist]

Being that the purpose of this forum is "specifically for non-believers to ask Christians, both staff and members, questions about Christianity, the Christian faith and issues about salvation and the Gospel" I'm inclined to wonder if you had a question or were you just looking for a platform from which to preach your version of the Gospel.

So, do you have a question about Scripture that you'd like a Christian member or staff to help you understand? If not, this might be better suited for one of the debate forums.

God bless

 

[Stealth]

I was not preaching my own version of the gospel, i was just stating what the "Bible says" Not what I say. Thats all.

 

[Outspoken]

No, you're actually trying to debate because you're adding your own commentary.

 

[Stealth]

Actually my question is: "Are you saved, based on what the Bible says or what man say?" So thats my question. I just quoted several verses for you to read and check for yourself,, thats all.

 

[Reformationist]

I was not preaching my own version of the gospel, i was just stating what the "Bible says" Not what I say. Thats all.

LOL! It never fails to amuse me when people say "I wasn't giving my own opinion of what these verses mean I was just stating what the Bible says" and then procede to quote a verse and give their opinion on what those verses mean.

Look Stealth, if all you wanted to do was "state what the Bible says" your post would be NOTHING except direct quotes of Scripture. The minute you introduce your interpretation of the meaning of those verses you are not "stating what the Bible says."

There is nothing wrong with sharing your understanding of the Gospel, or part of it, and then inviting others to discuss/debate how accurate your view is. It is actually beneficial to the spiritual growth of all who are able to do so with a desire to grow in faith and edify others in doing the same.

It is a completely different story when someone makes 3 long posts, citing a bunch of verses that they believe supports their view and then passing it off as "what the Bible says" because they insert their own interpretation of those verses.

You ask:

Are you saved, based on what the Bible says or what man say?

I'm saved by the grace of God. Whether I understand the Bible to say that or not is irrelevent. My understanding of the Gospel isn't the defining factor in whether I'm saved. I'm saved because God chose to save me through the meritorious work of Jesus Christ. If you believe that's what the Bible says then my answer is that I'm saved according to what the Bible says. If you don't believe what I've said, well, I'm still saved according to the grace of God in His Son Jesus Christ.

God bless

 

[Stealth]

let me rephrase myself, I posted some questions, with scriptures, and what they say and what they mean in light of what they say,, so that people can read them. i'm not trying to argue with you or anyone in here,, I'm just making a point.

 

[Reformationist]

let me rephrase myself, I posted some questions, with scriptures, and what they say and what they mean in light of what they say,, so that people can read them. i'm not trying to argue with you or anyone in here,, I'm just making a point.

Let me rephrase myself. I have no problem whatsoever with you posting your opinion. That's just not what this forum is for. This forum, as I related before, is "specifically for non-believers to ask Christians, both staff and members, questions about Christianity, the Christian faith and issues about salvation and the Gospel." I didn't make that up. It's a quote from the Senior Administrator of this forum in the first thread in this forum.

If you want to share your faith with non believers then a more appropriate forum would be something like General Apologetics. If, however, your desire was to engage other Christians in a discussion as to whether a person's ability to be saved is contingent upon their adherence to certain works then that would be better suited to one of the debate/discussion forums like P/R/E or Soteriology.

God bless

 

[Stealth]

Reformationist, I'm sorry, I'm a newbie at this and wasn't aware that there were certain guidelines for particular forums. Thankyou for helping me figure it out better, abd again I'm sorry, I don't want to break any rules or offend anyone.

 

[Reformationist]

Reformationist, I'm sorry, I'm a newbie at this and wasn't aware that there were certain guidelines for particular forums. Thankyou for helping me figure it out better, abd again I'm sorry, I don't want to break any rules or offend anyone.

I hope that I didn't give you the opinion that I was offended. You have nothing to be sorry for. As you said, you're a "newbie" and didn't realize which forums were for what purpose. Normally in the first couple of threads in each forum you'll see posts that will explain the rules of that forum, who can post there, and the purpose of the forum. If I came across to harshly please forgive me. I have a natural ability to do that and often don't even realize that I'm doing it until someone responds with such godly gentleness as you have in the above post.

Welcome to Christian Forums. There are some wonderful people here who are much better suited than I to discuss these potentially volatile issues in a spirit of love and gentleness.

God bless,
Don

 

[Rising_Suns]

hey stealth,
I want you to know that I believe your message is right on target. Although it initially came off as a little too "preacher-like", you propose a point that too many people forget these days. Salvation is a life-long process, not a one time event. We can't just wake up one day, say we are saved, and then sit on our butts and do nothing for the rest of our lives. If you truly have faith, then you will naturally want to act on your faith. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. the two go hand in hand. In any case, if I may make a suggestion. If you are going to make a post on the "Questions about Christianity" page, try making it a little more welcoming next time. New/Soon-to-be Christians should be welcomed and see friendly faces to help guide them, not to be preached at. Just change your approach a little on this board, then you'll be fine.

Welcome.