Are you saved? If yes, are you sure? If no, why not?

[edpobre]

Originally posted by rekaburb
I am saved because I accepted Jesus into my heart by speaking the words of acceptance to God.

Are you a member of the church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood? If NOT, then you have NOT found REDEMPTION and your sins have NOT been forgiven. Remember friend, not everyone who says to Jesus, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the WILL of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:21)

The lord has given me the Holy Spirit which is a constant companion and guide to me now.

God SENDS the Holy Spirit only to the church that Christ will save. Are you a mmber of this church? If NOT, then it is wishful thinking to say that God has sent the Holy Spirit to you.

For the first time in my life I can truly feel the lord in me. I am an heir to Christ and a king on his eyes. He brings me more strength and fortitude than I have ever known. I pray that more could be truly saved. Pick up the word and follow it. Action speaks much to the lord.
God Bless this forum and all in it.
rek.

Unless one is REDEEMED by the blood of Christ and his sins are forgiven, one cannot become a son of God. And one cannot be REDEEMED unless one is a member of the church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood.

Ed

 

[Susan]

One can be redeemed only through faith in Jesus Christ ALONE.
Not through a church or any institution, not through works, but ONLY through faith in Jesus!
Peace

 

[Caedmon]

The White House where Pres. Bush resides is HUGE. The Malakanyang Palace where Pres. Arroyo resides occupies - how many blocks? Do these Presidents own these MANSIONS?

The Manalo Mansion in San Juan is the residence of whoever is the Executive Minister of the Church is. That property is OWNED by the IGLESIA NI CRISTO - not by the Manalos - much as the White House is OWNED by the United States of America.

Well, ed, thank you for coming clean and admitting that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is a political organization, paralleling it with the governments of the United States and of the Philippines. The only difference -- as I understand it, ed -- is that the first two work to instill human political rights, but the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo works to revoke them. Thank you for the honest answer ed; it is truly appreciated.

 

[rekaburb]

Originally posted by rekaburb
I am saved because I accepted Jesus into my heart by speaking the words of acceptance to God.

Are you a member of the church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood? If NOT, then you have NOT found REDEMPTION and your sins have NOT been forgiven. Remember friend, not everyone who says to Jesus, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the WILL of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:21)

The lord has given me the Holy Spirit which is a constant companion and guide to me now.

God SENDS the Holy Spirit only to the church that Christ will save. Are you a mmber of this church? If NOT, then it is wishful thinking to say that God has sent the Holy Spirit to you.

For the first time in my life I can truly feel the lord in me. I am an heir to Christ and a king on his eyes. He brings me more strength and fortitude than I have ever known. I pray that more could be truly saved. Pick up the word and follow it. Action speaks much to the lord.
God Bless this forum and all in it.
rek.

Unless one is REDEEMED by the blood of Christ and his sins are forgiven, one cannot become a son of God. And one cannot be REDEEMED unless one is a member of the church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood.

Ed

You are wrong. I did not say I was the son of god only an heir to Christ. You should re-read your scripture. I do attend a church and was saved praying with a pastor. Yes the spirit is a gift to us from Jesus. It is written my friend. I cannot believe what you have said here. I pray that you find the truth.
rek.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Susan
One can be redeemed only through faith in Jesus Christ ALONE.
Not through a church or any institution, not through works, but ONLY through faith in Jesus!
Peace

Then explain to me Col. 1:13-14. What is the kingdom in whom there is redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins.

The Bible teaches that Christ GAVE his life for the church (Eph. 5:25), PURCHASED the Church of Christ with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa) and Christ is the SAVIOR of the church (Eph. 5:23).

The Bible teaches that WITHOUT shedding of blood, there is NO remission (Heb. 9:22). Tell me Susan, how can one be REDEEMED through the blood of Christ if one is NOT a member of the CHURCH that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood?

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by humblejoe


Well, ed, thank you for coming clean and admitting that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is a political organization, paralleling it with the governments of the United States and of the Philippines. The only difference -- as I understand it, ed -- is that the first two work to instill human political rights, but the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo works to revoke them. Thank you for the honest answer ed; it is truly appreciated.

Aren't you committing MENTAL DISHONESTY friend? Where have I admitted that the IGLESIA NI CRISTO is a political organization?


Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by rekaburb



You are wrong. I did not say I was the son of god only an heir to Christ. You should re-read your scripture. I do attend a church and was saved praying with a pastor. Yes the spirit is a gift to us from Jesus. It is written my friend. I cannot believe what you have said here. I pray that you find the truth.
rek.

If you are NOT a son of God, then you are NOT an heir and co-heir with Christ to God's promises. And if your church is NOT the church that Christ purchased with his blood, then the letters of apostle Paul do NOT apply to you.

Praying with a pastor does NOT save anyone friend. Jesus set the guidelines for one to be saved. One must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3). But in order to ENTER the kingdom of heaven, one must be born of water and the spirit (John 3:5). This requires DOING the WILL of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:21?).

Have you DONE the WILL of the FATHER for you to ENTER the kingdom of heaven?

Ed

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by edpobre
Aren't you committing MENTAL DISHONESTY friend? Where have I admitted that the IGLESIA NI CRISTO is a political organization?

Ed, by admitting that your organization effectively CONTROLS the voting patterns of its adherents, you have PROVEN that the Iglesia Ni Cristo DOES EXERT POLITICAL INFLUENCE over its members. Politics may not be its exclusive purpose, but it is a major one. I don't know about others, but to me, ed, this seems to be an organization with a political agenda holding political sway over its members.

And ed, if you DON'T think that this significantly AFFECTS the elections and political procedures of the Philippines, you are sadly mistaken. The political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo claims more adherents than any of the Christian groups in the Phillipines, other than Catholics(but considering the staunchly antiCatholic propaganda set forth by your political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo, I'm sure that that is still somewhat irritating). For a political organization as large as Iglesia Ni Cristo to have EVERY ONE of its members vote the same way, don't you think that amounts to a significant political force of control, ed?

The way you TWIST what I say, you really are of your father, the DEVIL, for the DEVIL is father of LIES.

Come now, ed, that was most certainly unnecessary. I assure you that I am a Christian. But I also assure you that I will most avidly fight to preserve the integrity of Christianity and the body of Christ by identifying and exposing ANY organization, political or otherwise, that seeks to control, demean, abuse, or slander ANY of Christ's children. His little ones are to be protected.

May God show you His truth. Amen.

In Christ, hj...

 

[Susan]

My post was deleted.
Sorry if it offended anyone, I did not mean to challenge the current mods or break Rule 7.

peace

 

[Blackhawk]

That is okay. i sent you a PM. It should explain all and you are not in trouble or anything.

 

[Susan]

Thanks, i read it a minute ago.

 

[rekaburb]

Originally posted by rekaburb



You are wrong. I did not say I was the son of god only an heir to Christ. You should re-read your scripture. I do attend a church and was saved praying with a pastor. Yes the spirit is a gift to us from Jesus. It is written my friend. I cannot believe what you have said here. I pray that you find the truth.
rek.

If you are NOT a son of God, then you are NOT an heir and co-heir with Christ to God's promises. And if your church is NOT the church that Christ purchased with his blood, then the letters of apostle Paul do NOT apply to you.

Praying with a pastor does NOT save anyone friend. Jesus set the guidelines for one to be saved. One must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3). But in order to ENTER the kingdom of heaven, one must be born of water and the spirit (John 3:5). This requires DOING the WILL of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:21?).

Have you DONE the WILL of the FATHER for you to ENTER the kingdom of heaven?

Ed

It is obvious that you are addament in your beliefs. I give you credit for that but I am ending this conversation. Do not expect a reply.
rek.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by humblejoe


Ed, by admitting that your organization effectively CONTROLS the voting patterns of its adherents, you have PROVEN that the Iglesia Ni Cristo DOES EXERT POLITICAL INFLUENCE over its members. Politics may not be its exclusive purpose, but it is a major one. I don't know about others, but to me, ed, this seems to be an organization with a political agenda holding political sway over its members.

As usual, your asssumption is FALSE. The Administration of the church does not exert POLITICAL INFLUENCE over its members and the church is NOT a political organization holding political sway over its members.

The church Administration decision on WHO to vote is NOT politically motivated. It's purpose is to implement God's command to MAINTAIN unity in the BODY. In the IGLESIA NI CRISTO, we don't hear of brother hating or killing brother because of politics. Members of the church go on peacefully with their lives regardless of who win the elections.

And ed, if you DON'T think that this significantly AFFECTS the elections and political procedures of the Philippines, you are sadly mistaken.

What gives you the idea that I don't know?

The political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo claims more adherents than any of the Christian groups in the Phillipines, other than Catholics(but considering the staunchly antiCatholic propaganda set forth by your political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo, I'm sure that that is still somewhat irritating).

As a matter of fact, yes. The IGLESIA NI CRISTO is the largest RELIGIOUS organization in the Phillipines, next only to the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church teaches many doctrines that are NOT found in the Bible. Foremost among them is the Trinity.

In our desire to SNATCH people from the clutches of this FALSE religion in order for them to be saved, we of course have to attack their FALSE doctrines. Nothing personnal really.

But we don't go to the extent of branding the RCC FALSELY as a "political organization" although it does put her fingers on every political decision in the country.

For a political organization as large as Iglesia Ni Cristo to have EVERY ONE of its members vote the same way, don't you think that amounts to a significant political force of control, ed?

Is this good or bad? For most members of the church, this is good. For members of other churches, this is bad. How about you my friend, would you want to be on the good side?

Come now, ed, that was most certainly unnecessary. I assure you that I am a Christian.

So, you think you are a Christian. Then perhaps you should strive to avoid saying something that is not true or putting words into other people's lips. That's bad, you know.

But I also assure you that I will most avidly fight to preserve the integrity of Christianity and the body of Christ by identifying and exposing ANY organization, political or otherwise, that seeks to control, demean, abuse, or slander ANY of Christ's children. His little ones are to be protected.

May God show you His truth. Amen.

In Christ, hj...

We are on the same boat my friend. That's precisely what I intend to do and what I'm doing right now.

But in doing so, let's use the Bible for bullets instead of lies, shall we?

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by rekaburb


It is obvious that you are addament in your beliefs. I give you credit for that but I am ending this conversation. Do not expect a reply.
rek.

rekaburb,

I don't blame you for your decision to stay out of this thread. A little knowlege is dangerous, you know. But please keep reading these posts that you may COME to the knowledge of the TRUTH that leads you to the TRUE path to salvation.

Ed

 

[edpobre]

humblejoe,

I WROTE: Christ PURCHASED the Church of Christ (ONE church - HIS) with HIS own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). Christ GAVE his life for that ONE church (Eph. 5:25). Christ is the SAVIOR of that ONE church (Eph. 5:23). That ONE church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO in these last days.

Can any other church claim the distinction of being that ONE church that Christ WILL save?

YOU WROTE: Yes, the members of Christ's Body that circle the world can, ed.

Can you identify that "Christ's Body that circles the world?" What does it compose of and where can one find it?

I WROTE: Friend, membership to this exclusive club is FREE. Why don't you join while there is time? The Lord will come like a thief in the night, you know.

YOU WROTE: Sure, you just have to negate your political preferences first. Yes, I know. I study Scripture.

We don't have "political preferences." Everyone is FREEE to either OBEY or DISOBEY God's COMMANDS. Most members of the IGLESIA NI CRISTOchoose to OBEY God in order to be saved.

I WROTE: BEFORE they joined the IGLESIA NI CRISTO, they were TAUGHT the commands of God to maintain UNITY in the BODY and to OBEY what the ADMINISTRATION prescribes to IMPLEMENT what God COMMANDS. Voting is one of these.

They were FREE to decide whether they wanted to go thorough the BAPTISM or not. That's democracy!!!!

YOU WROTE: Ah yes, and if they didn't go through the "baptism" and SPECIFIC membership and bylaws of the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo, they'd go to Hell, right? Yeah ed, lots of freedom there.

Does your church teach that you will be saved EVEN if you do NOT believe Jesus? Don't they teach you that IF you don't BELIEVE Jesus, you will go to hell? You mean you have that much freedom in your church? Has your church rfewritten the Bible?

I WROTE: As a MEMBER of the church, they are FREE to decide whether they value their membership MORE than their freedom to choose the candidate to vote for. They were AWARE of the consequence even BEFORE they joined the church.

YOU WROTE: And yes, I'm sure the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo did their part to preach the gospel, and not scare them to death by convincing them that if they didn't adhere to the political agenda of the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo they'd go to Hell, right?

That's FALSE! Members are taught from the Bible that FELLOWSHIP and UNITY with the church Aministration means fellowship and unity with God and His son Jesus. And going AGAINST what the church Administration decides to MAINTAIN unity in the BODY is going AGAINST God and His son Jesus.

I WROTE: It is God's COMMAND not to inter-marry with UNBELIEVERS or non-members of the church. This is what the Church Administration admonish members NOT to do.

While the Church Administration discourages potential engagement of unmarried brothers and sisters to UNBELIEVERS (because this may lead to termination of their membership), the Church Administration does NOT tell members WHOM to marry nor does it tell members WHOM to stay away from.

yOU WROTE:Really? But then again, it's prohibited to marry unbelievers. Hmm, ed, that pretty much sounds like the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo tells people whom they can marry.

Again, you are MISINTERPRETING into my words. God COMMANDS His people NOT to marry UNBELIEVERS. That's NOT the same as telling His people WHOM to marry?

I WROTE: Then you do NOT deserve to be saved. Jesus himself TAUGHT that children will LEAVE their parents to FOLLOW him. Wives will LEAVE their husbands to FOLLOW him.

YOU WROTE: Ed, none of us deserve to be saved. You know ed, Jim Jones and David Koresh also taught their followers that "children will LEAVE their parents to FOLLOW him. Wives will LEAVE their husbands to FOLLOW him.". The political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo has no exclusive claims. It's learned from other "organizations".

It was Jesus who said these words my friend. See what FALSE religion can lead you? You are even equating Jesus to David Koresh and Jim Jones.

I WROTE: We do NOT leave our families though. We strive to convince them to SEE the LIGHT. Most often, they are the ones who DISOWN us.

YOU ROTE: Why ed? Because they kept telling them that unless they are "baptized" into the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo and forfeit their own human political rights and freedoms, they will go to Hell?

No, because like you, they REFUSE to BELIEVE Jesus and they REFUSE to OBEY God's COMMANDS. And they THINK they are superior to others!

Ed

 

[Blackhawk]

"Most members of the IGLESIA NI CRISTOchoose to OBEY God in order to be saved."

Sorry again to enter into y'alls conversation but I have another question. What can you not believe that the INC teaches and still go to heaven? Where is the line that if you corss then you are disfellowshipped and thus not going to heaven? I do want as specific of an answer as possible Ed.

blackhawk

 

[Caedmon]

It was Jesus who said these words my friend. See what FALSE religion can lead you? You are even equating Jesus to David Koresh and Jim Jones.

No, I am NOT "equating Jesus to David Koresh and Jim Jones". What I'm saying here ed, is that I consider your use of Scripture to be taken out of context as a universal application. I did not leave my parents to become a Christian. Does that make me not a Christian? Does a person ALWAYS have to forsake family to become a Christian?

 

[Blackwing]

Then why is that when voting time comes all the politicians here in the Philippines come to Manalo to woo the votes of the INC's?

And dont tell that block voting does not exist in the the INC ed because my grandma is an INC and they vote by block.

BTW about the original question i posted, is it not true that only the manalos can be executive ministers of the inc?

Then it must mean that the property in san juan is owned by the manalos?

Please clarify

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
"Most members of the IGLESIA NI CRISTOchoose to OBEY God in order to be saved."

Sorry again to enter into y'alls conversation but I have another question. What can you not believe that the INC teaches and still go to heaven? Where is the line that if you corss then you are disfellowshipped and thus not going to heaven? I do want as specific of an answer as possible Ed.

blackhawk

The doctrines of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO are not her own but God's. I have yet to hear a doctrine that is not of God or not found in the Bible.

If one goes AGAINST what the Administration has decided upon, that's going AGAINST God who COMMANDS members to respect the authority of the Administration and SUBJECT themselves to it. That is one ground for outright expulsion from the church.

Blatantly going AGAINST doctrines taught by the church is another ground for outright expulsion.

Inter-marriage with an UNBELIEVER is another. This is a deliberate DISOBEDIENCE to God's COMMAND against inter-marriage with UNBELIEVERS.

Before one is BAPTIZED into the church, he is made aware of these grounds for outright termination of membership in the church. These are sins against the Holy Spirit. Thus, when one commits any of these grave offenses, that means he is ready to be let loosed and wouldn't care if his membership in the church is terminated.

Prolonged continuous absence from the worship service and sins of the flesh like drunkenness, adultery, and the like do not merit outright disfellowship. Members concerned are exhorted to renew their life and turn back to God. Just as God is patient with sinners, church overseers are admonished to be patient with these brethren under their care and strive to lead them back to a righteous way of life.

I hope I was able to answer your question.

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Blackwing
Then why is that when voting time comes all the politicians here in the Philippines come to Manalo to woo the votes of the INC's?

If you were a politician, wouldn't it be sound political sense to woo the votes of the INC knowing that what the Church Administration says, the members OBEY? Politicians also run to Cardinal Sin for support, don't they?

And dont tell that block voting does not exist in the the INC ed because my grandma is an INC and they vote by block.

Of course block voting is recommended. What good is it to have a Mayor from one party and the Vice Mayor from another party?

BTW about the original question i posted, is it not true that only the manalos can be executive ministers of the inc?

It is not true that only the Manalos can be Executive Ministers of the Church. However, like the Kings of Israel whose successors were their sons (except for David who did not come from the line of Kings), the Manalos have descendants that are also qualified to become Executive Ministers. The present Executive Minister was selected from among several qualified successors of his late father. The next Executive Minister who is now the deputy, was also selected from among several qualified successors of his father, the present Executive Minister.

All things being equal, nobody among the qualified Ministers in the Church has any objection to the son of the present Executive Minister being selected by his peers to succeed his father when the time comes.

Then it must mean that the property in san juan is owned by the manalos?

Please clarify

As I said earlier, the property in San Juan is registered in the name of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO. The Manalos do not own the property and thus are not free to dispose of it in their own personal capacity.

Ed