Are you saved? If yes, are you sure? If no, why not?

[edpobre]

Friends,

Let's forget Calvin and friends and take the word of Jesus himself. Then let's take this poll. Please show scriptures NOT Calvinism, etc. to support your vote.

Ed

 

[LouisBooth]

Yup, I am...

 

[Caedmon]

Yes, I'm saved by God through Christ's sacrifice, as stated in Scripture, as outlined in the five points of Reformed Theology... LOL!!!

Ok, here's your Scripture, Ed:

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. - Romans 8:29&30, NASB

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. - Ephesians 1:3-8a, NASB

(See, I didn't even mention Calvin in my reasoning... THAT'S AMAZING!!! ROFLOL!!!!! )

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by humblejoe
Yes, I'm saved by God through Christ's sacrifice, as stated in Scripture, as outlined in the five points of Reformed Theology... LOL!!!

Ok, here's your Scripture, Ed:

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. - Romans 8:29&30, NASB

Are you sure you have been called by God? How were you called and what proof can you show that you have been called?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. - Ephesians 1:3-8a, NASB

(See, I didn't even mention Calvin in my reasoning... THAT'S AMAZING!!! ROFLOL!!!!! )

Do you have proof that you are INCLUDED in apostle Paul's letter? Do you have proof that you have been redeemed by Christ's blood and your sins have been forgiven?

Ed

 

[Caedmon]

Are you sure you have been called by God? How were you called and what proof can you show that you have been called?

I'm sure. I was effectually called by the Holy Spirit. My proof is my faith. I have been born into a new life, I am a new creation, serving God in obedience, doing works out of joy, always in prayer, daily asking forgiveness.

Do you have proof that you are INCLUDED in apostle Paul's letter? Do you have proof that you have been redeemed by Christ's blood and your sins have been forgiven?

As I said above, I have faith, and I am on a path of sanctification by God, daily striving to be more like Christ and to eradicate sin in my life. And it is by the virtue of the new spiritual attitude that God has placed in me that I have proof that my sins have been forgiven; Christ bought me at a price, and He will not let his purchase go to waste.

I am not a model of perfection, and I still occasionally sin. But Christ is working inside me, and He is not only the author, but also the perfector of my faith.

 

[MissytheButterfly]

I KNOW I am saved..because I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And it is through His grace and my faith in him that I am saved.

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

Jesus said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life."

From the Son of Man Himself:

Luke 23:42-43
John 3:16
John 5:24-25 (OSAS support)
John 6:47

From Pauline Epistles:

Romans 3:22-24
Romans 10:9-10
Galatians 2&3
Ephesians 2:8-9

If we accept the fact that we cannot stand before God in our filthiness, and accept His righteousness, believing in God we are saved. If we think that we can stand before the throne of God and list off our resume of how "good" we are, how we deserve to co-dwell with God because of our works of self-exaltation, then we will pass through the fires of judgement. God says we're saved, then we're saved. Period. If one ends up turning away from God and cursing Him, then the Holy Spirit was never established there in the heart, and they were a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Well, I'm done "preaching" and am about ready to go get some sleep... TTYL Jesus loves you!

 

[edpobre]

Hi Humblejoe!

I wrote: Are you sure you have been called by God? How were you called and what proof can you show that you have been called?

You wrote: I'm sure. I was effectually called by the Holy Spirit. My proof is my faith. I have been born into a new life, I am a new creation, serving God in obedience, doing works out of joy, always in prayer, daily asking forgiveness.

What you are saying humblejoe are self-serving statements that CANNOT be proven. And anybody can do just that, even Jim Jones and David Koresh.

The Bible teaches that those who were called by God to have peace with Him are in ONE body (Col. 3:15) because it is in this ONE body where Christ RECONCILES both Jews and Gentiles to God through the cross (Eph. 2:16). Do you know what this ONE body is and are you in this ONE body?

The Bible teaches that we are CALLED by the gospel PREACHED by AUTHORIZED messengers of God (2 Thes. 2:14). Apostle Paul provided proof of his commissioning by reading Isaiah's prophecy about him. Can you show proof that you HEARD the gospel from an AUTHORIZED messenger of God?

I wrote: Do you have proof that you are INCLUDED in apostle Paul's letter? Do you have proof that you have been redeemed by Christ's blood and your sins have been forgiven?

You wrote: As I said above, I have faith, and I am on a path of sanctification by God, daily striving to be more like Christ and to eradicate sin in my life. And it is by the virtue of the new spiritual attitude that God has placed in me that I have proof that my sins have been forgiven; Christ bought me at a price, and He will not let his purchase go to waste.

I say again that what you are saying humblejoe are self-serving statements that CANNOT be proven. And anybody can do just that, even Jim Jones and David Koresh.

The Bible teaches that those who were called by God are delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of His son, in whom there is redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:13-14).

Apostle Paul's letters were addressed to those whom God CALLED and have been translated into the kingdom of God's son. Do you know what this kingdom is? Are you in this kingdom? What proof can you show that you are in this kingdom?

The Bible teaches that Christ PURCHASED his CHURCH with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). The Bible also teaches that Christ GAVE his life for the church (Eph. 5:25) and Christ is himself the SAVIOR of the CHURCH, his BODY (Eph. 5:23). Do you know what this church is? Are now a MEMBER oif this CHURCH that Christ will save? Can you show proof that you are a MEMBER of this CHURCH?

You wrote:

I am not a model of perfection, and I still occasionally sin. But Christ is working inside me, and He is not only the author, but also the perfector of my faith.

The Bible teaches that APART from Christ, one is alien from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and WITHOUT God in the world (Eph. 2:12).

To be made near by the blood of Christ, one must be IN Christ (Eph. 2:12). This means one must be INSIDE the BODY of Christ of which he is the HEAD (Col. 1:18).

That BODY is the church of Christ which he PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). In Pilipino, that church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

Those who are CALLED by God through the PREACHING of the gospel by AUTHORIZED messengers of God have been delivered from darkness and translated to the kingdom of his son in theses last days, the IGLESIA NI CRISTO in whom there is REDEMPTION through Christ's blood, the FORGIVENESS of sins.

Ed

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by edpobre
Hi Humblejoe!



What you are saying humblejoe are self-serving statements that CANNOT be proven. And anybody can do just that, even Jim Jones and David Koresh.

The Bible teaches that those who were called by God to have peace with Him are in ONE body (Col. 3:15) because it is in this ONE body where Christ RECONCILES both Jews and Gentiles to God through the cross (Eph. 2:16). Do you know what this ONE body is and are you in this ONE body?

The Bible teaches that we are CALLED by the gospel PREACHED by AUTHORIZED messengers of God (2 Thes. 2:14). Apostle Paul provided proof of his commissioning by reading Isaiah's prophecy about him. Can you show proof that you HEARD the gospel from an AUTHORIZED messenger of God?

And ed, can you PROVE that YOUR church is the one, only, authorized, authentic church of Christ? Can you admit, without ANY possibility, however infinitesimal, that YOUR church is correct and no others are?

I say again that what you are saying humblejoe are self-serving statements that CANNOT be proven. And anybody can do just that, even Jim Jones and David Koresh.

The Bible teaches that those who were called by God are delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of His son, in whom there is redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:13-14).

Apostle Paul's letters were addressed to those whom God CALLED and have been translated into the kingdom of God's son. Do you know what this kingdom is? Are you in this kingdom? What proof can you show that you are in this kingdom?

The Bible teaches that Christ PURCHASED his CHURCH with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). The Bible also teaches that Christ GAVE his life for the church (Eph. 5:25) and Christ is himself the SAVIOR of the CHURCH, his BODY (Eph. 5:23). Do you know what this church is? Are now a MEMBER oif this CHURCH that Christ will save? Can you show proof that you are a MEMBER of this CHURCH?

Can you show proof that I am NOT a member of YOUR church, and that YOUR church is the only one that can save me? Hmmm, but I thought it was CHRIST that saves... oh well...

The Bible teaches that APART from Christ, one is alien from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and WITHOUT God in the world (Eph. 2:12).

To be made near by the blood of Christ, one must be IN Christ (Eph. 2:12). This means one must be INSIDE the BODY of Christ of which he is the HEAD (Col. 1:18).

That BODY is the church of Christ which he PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). In Pilipino, that church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

Those who are CALLED by God through the PREACHING of the gospel by AUTHORIZED messengers of God have been delivered from darkness and translated to the kingdom of his son in theses last days, the IGLESIA NI CRISTO in whom there is REDEMPTION through Christ's blood, the FORGIVENESS of sins.

And how do you KNOW that those that are not "translated" by YOUR church will not go to Heaven? And what caused the seperation in the Iglesia Ni Cristo, when Teogila Ora, one of the founder ministers of the sect, seperated from Felix Manalo, the lone founder of the Iglesia Ni Cristo? If the Iglesia Ni Cristo is of one mind, and is the ONLY one that has the truth, why was there dissension in the ranks?

And, if in fact, the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the only true church of Christ, why is it that the doctrines held by Felix Manalo CHANGED over time? Why is it that when the sect was first begun, Manalo did not attack the deity of Christ, but after WWI, around 1930, he began bitterly denying Christ's preexistence?

And tell me, why is it that the "true" church that arises from the "far east" is the Phillipines, and yet "the Phillipines" is never written in the Bible? The Iglesia Ni Cristo says that the word "trinity" is not written in the Bible and therefore must be nonexistent, and yet the word "Phillipines", the central origin area of its beliefs, is not to be found ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Why does the Iglesia Ni Cristo seek to control the minds, politics, actions, etc. of its members? Why is it that attendance to Iglesia Ni Cristo is MANDATORY, and that missing services could take away salvation? Why is marriage MANDATORY in the Iglesia Ni Cristo? Why are men and women seperated at church services, regardless of whether they be married, sons and daughters, siblings, infants, etc.? Why does the Iglesia Ni Cristo COMMAND its members which political figures to vote for?

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by humblejoe


And ed, can you PROVE that YOUR church is the one, only, authorized, authentic church of Christ? Can you admit, without ANY possibility, however infinitesimal, that YOUR church is correct and no others are?

I'm glad you asked! Sure! We can go to the LAW and TESTIMONY (Isaiah 8:20). In fact, every so-called church should be tested against this standard.

There is ONLY ONE true church of Christ. Christ built ONLY ONE church - HIS church (Matt. 16:18). All other churches are false! We BELIEVE the IGLESIA NI CRISTO is the TRUE church of Christ in these last days.

However, you need to talk to a minister of our church in person regarding this.

Can you show proof that I am NOT a member of YOUR church, and that YOUR church is the only one that can save me? Hmmm, but I thought it was CHRIST that saves... oh well...

If you were a member of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO you would know that the foundation of the church is the TRUTH that Jesus is the Christ, the SON of the living God. In short, Jesus, being the SON of God CANNOT be God because the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). You would also stand firm on what Jesus TAUGHT about himself - he is a MAN (John 8:40).

Sure, Christ is the ONLY savior. But do you know who Christ will save? The church, HIS body (Eph. 5:23). It HIS church that he PURCHASED with his own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa), the church that he GAVE his life for (Eph. 5:25). This church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO where I am a member of.

And how do you KNOW that those that are not "translated" by YOUR church will not go to Heaven?

Those who are CALLED by God in these last days through the gospel preached by AUHORIZED messengers of God, are DELIVERED from the power of darkness and TRANSLATED into the IGLESIA NI CRISTO which is the kingdom of His son in whom there is REDEMPTION through Christ's blood, the FORGIVENESS of sins(Col. 1:13-14).

Therefore, those who are NOT translated INTO the IGLESIA NI CRISTO have not been redeemed by Christ's blood and their sins have not been forgiven.

And what caused the seperation in the Iglesia Ni Cristo, when Teogila Ora, one of the founder ministers of the sect, seperated from Felix Manalo, the lone founder of the Iglesia Ni Cristo? If the Iglesia Ni Cristo is of one mind, and is the ONLY one that has the truth, why was there dissension in the ranks?

There had always been dissension among members of the first-century church of Christ. Don't you remember the 70 who walked with Christ no more? How about Judas who betrayed Christ? Does that make Christ LESS credible because Judas broke away from him? Apostle Paul also talked of Christians who wanted to divide the members into the camp of Apollos and Paul.

Despite all these, why did the religion that Christ founded flourish? Because this is the work of God! Today, the IGLESIA NI CRISTO has spread in about 70 countries and is being preached in about 120 languages.

And, if in fact, the Iglesia Ni Cristo is the only true church of Christ, why is it that the doctrines held by Felix Manalo CHANGED over time? Why is it that when the sect was first begun, Manalo did not attack the deity of Christ, but after WWI, around 1930, he began bitterly denying Christ's preexistence?

The doctrine that Christ is a MAN - NOT God has always been the foundation of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO. When the church first begun, it started with only 8 people and people of bigger religions did not pay too much attention to her. But as the church began to grow, people became attracted to her doctrine and started challenging our ministers to debates about the nature of Jesus Naturally, this made the church all the more popular. Again, this is the work of God!

And tell me, why is it that the "true" church that arises from the "far east" is the Phillipines, and yet "the Phillipines" is never written in the Bible?

Can you find the names of John, Jesus and Paul in the prophecies of Isaiah that testify to their being SENT by God? Isaiah's prophecies regarding the place where the "other sheep" of Christ will come from is, likewise, NOT named in the prophecies but we can prove that the Phillipines is the fulfullment of these prophecies.

The Iglesia Ni Cristo says that the word "trinity" is not written in the Bible and therefore must be nonexistent, and yet the word "Phillipines", the central origin area of its beliefs, is not to be found ANYWHERE in Scripture.

The Trinity CONTRADICTS John 8:40 and John 17:3. The Phillipines as the place prophesied can be proven historically and geographically that it is the fulfillment of prophecy.

Why does the Iglesia Ni Cristo seek to control the minds, politics, actions, etc. of its members?

The Bible teaches that Christians must be of one mind and JUDGMENT. Voting is one kind of judgment. Elections create dissension and division UNLESS the Central Administration does something about it. To maintain UNITY in the body, the Central Administration determines the candidate to vote for based on collective recommendations from local church officials. Regardless of who wins the election, God's WILL of maintaining UNITY in the Body is done and every member wins.

Why is it that attendance to Iglesia Ni Cristo is MANDATORY, and that missing services could take away salvation?

What is agreed upon on earth is also agreed upon in heaven. One of the doctrines that an aspiring member believes in is subjecting himself to the authority of the Administration whom we believe is appointed by God.

Worshipping God in a manner at a place, days and time agreed upon and affirmed by the Adminstration must be obeyed. Failure to obey means that one is no longer agreeable to subject himself to the authority of the Adminstration. In that case, the Adminstration can let loose those who no longer want to subject themselves to the authority of the church.

Why is marriage MANDATORY in the Iglesia Ni Cristo?

Marriage is NOT mandatory. But marriage with NON-MEMBERS of the church is PROHIBITED by God.

Why are men and women seperated at church services, regardless of whether they be married, sons and daughters, siblings, infants, etc.?

To obey God's command that members of the church should asssemble themselves in an orderly manner.

Why does the Iglesia Ni Cristo COMMAND its members which political figures to vote for?

See above.

Ed

 

[Blackhawk]

Ed,

sorry to jump into you and Humblejoe's conversation here but I have a quick question.

HJ: Why is marriage MANDATORY in the Iglesia Ni Cristo?

Ed: "Marriage is NOT mandatory. But marriage with NON-MEMBERS of the church is PROHIBITED by God."

BH: Now I believe that I should not be married to a nonbeliever. That I should not be unequally yoked but I think you mean more than that by the statement above.

1. Could a member of your church marry a member of any other church?

2. What would happen to a member of your church if they did marry someone who was not a member of your church? Maybe they marry an atheist what would happen? What I am looking for is if they would be excomunnicated or shunned or would they be accepted while trying to win over the atheist?

blackhawk

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
Ed,

sorry to jump into you and Humblejoe's conversation here but I have a quick question.

HJ: Why is marriage MANDATORY in the Iglesia Ni Cristo?

Ed: "Marriage is NOT mandatory. But marriage with NON-MEMBERS of the church is PROHIBITED by God."

BH: Now I believe that I should not be married to a nonbeliever. That I should not be unequally yoked but I think you mean more than that by the statement above.

1. Could a member of your church marry a member of any other church?

Absolutely NOT!

2. What would happen to a member of your church if they did marry someone who was not a member of your church? Maybe they marry an atheist what would happen? What I am looking for is if they would be excomunnicated or shunned or would they be accepted while trying to win over the atheist?

Before one is baptized into the church, they are asked if they truly believe and accept the doctrines that they heard. One of this is the prohibition by God of inter-marrying with unbelievers (non-members of the church). Every prospective member is taught that marrying a non-member is a ground for outright termination of membership in the church.

While having a non-believer boyfrind or girlfriend is discouraged as much as possible because this could lead to their losing the benefits of membership in the church that Christ will save, members are admonished and exhorted to strive to get their non-member friend to become a member of the church if they truly intend to marry.

A lot of times, this is what happens.

Ed

blackhawk

 

[Caedmon]

That sounds cultish to me, ed. Basically, what you're saying is that NO other Christian group member on the planet is going to go to Heaven, and that the only criterion you have to use to judge the salvation of another person is whether or not they're in your exclusive club. So far you've explained that members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo: vote as they're told(negating democracy!!!), seperate male from female as they're told, marry whom they're told, stay away from whom they're told even if these are other family members or friends(girlfriends and potential future wives included). And there's the clinching point: potential mandatory seperation from friends and family. Ed, I would seriously be careful about this organization. No ed, I would be afraid.

 

[Blackwing]

How about tithes ed?

Is it mandatory and if not you will be expelled also?

BTW i have to manalo's mansion and it is big, really big, like a whole block at San juan right?

also why are the chiurches of the inc have a point like structure at the top of the buildings?

 

[Susan]

Go to this link, http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/a00.html
click on the lettter "I" (you will be at the letter "A") and then scroll down to Iglesia Ni Cristo. The author seems to think it a cult, and I would like your opinions on that. . .
BTW I hope that link works for you. i was having some problems with it, so if you have problems, say so and I will post an alternative way of entry.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by humblejoe
That sounds cultish to me, ed. Basically, what you're saying is that NO other Christian group member on the planet is going to go to Heaven, and that the only criterion you have to use to judge the salvation of another person is whether or not they're in your exclusive club.

Christ PURCHASED the Church of Christ (ONE church - HIS) with HIS own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). Christ GAVE his life for that ONE church (Eph. 5:25). Christ is the SAVIOR of that ONE church (Eph. 5:23). That ONE church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO in these last days.

Can any other church claim the distinction of being that ONE church that Christ WILL save?

Friend, membership to this exclusive club is FREE. Why don't you join while there is time? The Lord will come like a thief in the night, you know.

So far you've explained that members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo: vote as they're told(negating democracy!!!),

BEFORE they joined the IGLESIA NI CRISTO, they were TAUGHT the commands of God to maintain UNITY in the BODY and to OBEY what the ADMINISTRATION prescribes to IMPLEMENT what God COMMANDS. Voting is one of these.

They were FREE to decide whether they wanted to go thorough the BAPTISM or not. That's democracy!!!!

As a MEMBER of the church, they are FREE to decide whether they value their membership MORE than their freedom to choose the candidate to vote for. They were AWARE of the consequence even BEFORE they joined the church.

seperate male from female as they're told,

Only during worship services and other church activities inside the house of worship as prescribe by the Administration to maintain ORDERLINESS as commanded by God.

marry whom they're told, stay away from whom they're told even if these are other family members or friends(girlfriends and potential future wives included).

It is God's COMMAND not to inter-marry with UNBELIEVERS or non-members of the church. This is what the Church Administration admonish members NOT to do.

While the Church Administration discourages potential engagement of unmarried brothers and sisters to UNBELIEVERS (because this may lead to termination of their membership), the Church Administration does NOT tell members WHOM to marry nor does it tell members WHOM to stay away from.

And there's the clinching point: potential mandatory seperation from friends and family. Ed, I would seriously be careful about this organization. No ed, I would be afraid.

Then you do NOT deserve to be saved. Jesus himself TAUGHT that children will LEAVE their parents to FOLLOW him. Wives will LEAVE their husbands to FOLLOW him.

We do NOT leave our families though. We strive to convince them to SEE the LIGHT. Most often, they are the ones who DISOWN us.

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Blackwing
How about tithes ed?

Is it mandatory and if not you will be expelled also?

Apparently you haven't attended any of our worship services or Bible studies. I suggest you attend one so you will have first-hand knowledge about this.

Tithing is NOT even a word used in the church. Offering or "tithing" is NEVER mandatory. We OFFER what our heart dictates as the Bible teaches.

BTW i have to manalo's mansion and it is big, really big, like a whole block at San juan right?

The White House where Pres. Bush resides is HUGE. The Malakanyang Palace where Pres. Arroyo resides occupies - how many blocks? Do these Presidents own these MANSIONS?

The Manalo Mansion in San Juan is the residence of whoever is the Executive Minister of the Church is. That property is OWNED by the IGLESIA NI CRISTO - not by the Manalos - much as the White House is OWNED by the United States of America.

also why are the chiurches of the inc have a point like structure at the top of the buildings?

Funny, I haven't had the interest to inquire about that. I was more concerned about their doctrines than anything else.

Ed

 

[rekaburb]

I am saved because I accepted Jesus into my heart by speaking the words of acceptance to God. The lord has given me the Holy Spirit which is a constant companion and guide to me now.
For the first time in my life I can truly feel the lord in me. I am an heir to Christ and a king on his eyes. He brings me more strength and fortitude than I have ever known. I pray that more could be truly saved. Pick up the word and follow it. Action speaks much to the lord.
God Bless this forum and all in it.
rek.

 

[Caedmon]

Christ PURCHASED the Church of Christ (ONE church - HIS) with HIS own blood (Acts 20:28 Lamsa). Christ GAVE his life for that ONE church (Eph. 5:25). Christ is the SAVIOR of that ONE church (Eph. 5:23). That ONE church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO in these last days.

Can any other church claim the distinction of being that ONE church that Christ WILL save?

Yes, the members of Christ's Body that circle the world can, ed.

Friend, membership to this exclusive club is FREE. Why don't you join while there is time? The Lord will come like a thief in the night, you know.

Sure, you just have to negate your political preferences first. Yes, I know. I study Scripture.

BEFORE they joined the IGLESIA NI CRISTO, they were TAUGHT the commands of God to maintain UNITY in the BODY and to OBEY what the ADMINISTRATION prescribes to IMPLEMENT what God COMMANDS. Voting is one of these.

They were FREE to decide whether they wanted to go thorough the BAPTISM or not. That's democracy!!!!

Ah yes, and if they didn't go through the "baptism" and SPECIFIC membership and bylaws of the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo, they'd go to Hell, right? Yeah ed, lots of freedom there.

As a MEMBER of the church, they are FREE to decide whether they value their membership MORE than their freedom to choose the candidate to vote for. They were AWARE of the consequence even BEFORE they joined the church.

And yes, I'm sure the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo did their part to preach the gospel, and not scare them to death by convincing them that if they didn't adhere to the political agenda of the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo they'd go to Hell, right?

It is God's COMMAND not to inter-marry with UNBELIEVERS or non-members of the church. This is what the Church Administration admonish members NOT to do.

While the Church Administration discourages potential engagement of unmarried brothers and sisters to UNBELIEVERS (because this may lead to termination of their membership), the Church Administration does NOT tell members WHOM to marry nor does it tell members WHOM to stay away from.

Really? But then again, it's prohibited to marry unbelievers. Hmm, ed, that pretty much sounds like the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo tells people whom they can marry.

Then you do NOT deserve to be saved. Jesus himself TAUGHT that children will LEAVE their parents to FOLLOW him. Wives will LEAVE their husbands to FOLLOW him.

Ed, none of us deserve to be saved. You know ed, Jim Jones and David Koresh also taught their followers that "children will LEAVE their parents to FOLLOW him. Wives will LEAVE their husbands to FOLLOW him.". The political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo has no exclusive claims. It's learned from other "organizations".

We do NOT leave our families though. We strive to convince them to SEE the LIGHT. Most often, they are the ones who DISOWN us.

Why ed? Because they kept telling them that unless they are "baptized" into the political organization Iglesia Ni Cristo and forfeit their own human political rights and freedoms, they will go to Hell?

 

[Susan]

Amen Humblejoe!