Are you saved if baptised?

[New_Wineskin]

This is a totally erroneous analogy! Paul wished those who were trying to bind the OT on Christians would emasculate themselves. They were trying to add to the gospel. The Judaising teachers were wreaking havoc in the church. Baptism on the other hand is a teaching of Paul (and thus the Holy Spirit) - Colossians 2:12, Gala 3:27, 1 Cor 12:13. Baptism saves 1 Peter 3:21.
Refrus

Your reliance on manmade traditions has blinded you . The Jewish act of water baptism is no more powerful than the Jewish act of circumcism . You have replaced the Law with another law . Paul stated that if *any* set of laws could bring righteousness , that set would have been the Law . You have taken out the law and brought in something else . You only want people to be water baptized so that you can brag about their flesh . You are trying to convince others to be justified by this new "law" of yours and alienate them from Christ .

6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (NIV)

Nothing about water , there . The "only" thing ...

 

[jmacvols]

HARDLY JTB speaks of christ baptizing with the Spirit. scripture speaks of a baptism with the holy spirit in 1 cor 12:13 and when the apostles were baptized. SO no i can read and not ignore passages that might in some way show something against what i may believe. the onl;y one that counts is the one that saves. your just being a bit top litterale.

1 Cor 12:13 say BY one Spirit, not WITH one Spirit.

As has been shown to you before, in Jn 4:1,2. Verse 2 says Jesus baptized not, yet verse 1 says Jesus baptized. Is this a contradiction? No, for Jesus baptized not personally, but He baptized by giving His authority to His disciples to baptize. The Holy SPirit does not baptize Himself personally, He baptizes by giving His authority to the disciples to baptize, just as He gave Paul the authority to water baptize some of the Corinthians. Again, EPh 4:5 says ONE baptism, we see Paul water baptizing the Corinthians in 1 COr 1:14,16 and we see you trying to make 1 COr 12:13 a diiferent baptism thus creating two, not one.

seeing how i am not a calvanist, dont see your point. BUT scripture is clear that one is in there sinful nature. Rom 8 talks about it as does others. If we did not have a sinful nature God would not have to work through GRACE or send his son to do what we OBVIOUSELY couldnt EVER do. If we could have a part any part at all then WHY didnt he just stick with the sacrifiices. you just merely blow off what i say because AGAIN it would damage your theology.

False teachers have created the ides of a "sinful nature", the bible teaches otherwise. See Gen 4:4-8, note what God said to Cain in v7. If Cain had a "sinful nature" he could not do well nor rule over sin.

There is no scripture anywhere that says or proves this idea correct. you say scripture shows you right show me ANYWHERE else this idea is true. NO place in scripture talks about making disciples BY water by water baptizing.

Mt 28:19,20

how is it fulfilled you dont even ADD the rest of the prophecy, the whole part about the seeing visions the miracles in the sky sun turning to dark moon turned red ect. SOOO it is abviouse it was NOT fulfilled. OR are you gooingt o show me where all this other stuff in the prophecy was fulfilled in the two places you say it was. ITs a two fold prophecy it is NOT fulfilled it is BEING fulfilled still.

If Joel's prophecy has not been fulfilled then Jesus was not the Messiah and every jot and tittle of the OT law is still in place and in effect. Has Acts 2:21 come to pass? Verses 19,20 referencing the crucifixition of Christ.

I dont say doing nothing. one must believe, which according to scripture means believe and ACCEPT him into your heart. seeig how God sees the heart of man and knows if you do or not.

I did a word check and could not find a verse that says to believe and accept Him into your heart...no such vers exists.

acts 15:8 shows us this. AGAIN WE do not do anything we cant, YOU DO RECALL WE DID ONCE AND GOD SAID HE DIDNT LIKE IT, THE SACRIFICES, You speak of eigogenisis w hat of those who say that passages reads better as IN LIGHT OF the forgiveness of sins. NEVER mind ALL the other passages that say belief forgives sins acts 10:43 and others. You merely take the one place it seems to say it like you think and make ALL the other say. And ignore the scripture that says ONLY blood forgives sin. again tell me how water baptism is blood.

Acts 15:8 "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as unto us." Peter is saying God gave the Gentiles in Acts 10 the Holy GHost as He did the Apostles in Acts 2. Absolutley nothing here says Cornelius was saved before he was water baptized.

Peter has already said inn Acts 2:38 that baptism is for the remission of sins. NO VERSE say "belief alone" forgives sins, Acts 10:43 does not say belief alone forgives sins. Biblical belief ia an action word, it includes being baptized. As shown to you before in Acts 2:41, those that gladly recieved Peter's wrods were baptized, so theose that rejected his words refused to be baptized. In verse 44 it says all that believed were together. Now who were the ones that believed? The ones that gladly accepted Peter's words and baptized or those that rejected his words and not baptized? Obviously the ones that believed were the ones baptized. So here we have the word "believe" include eing baptized.

You do not deal with Acts 10:35 where Cornelius was to work righteousness to be accepted with God. Working righteousness is obeying GOd's commands, so when COrnelius obeyed the command to be water baptized, he then was accepted with God, not before. Also note that the Holy Ghost fell upon Cornelius before Peter told him Acts 10:43, can Cornelius be "saved" before he believed? No.

NO it doesnt contradict. YOU MAKE CONTRADICT. disharmony. like saying BELIEVE on me for eternal life, and be water baptised for eternal life or all who have faith in Jesus will have the sins forgiven, or be water baptised and your sins will be forgiven. How did you receive the Spirit in BELIEF no PAUL in water baptism. Or so by FAITH we will be GIVEN the holy SPirit. NO paul you are wrong it is in water baptism we are given the Spirit. WERE does it say Faith is getting water baptised NO WHERE. Rom 10:8-10 shows us WHAT FAITH is. There are SOOO many others but these show well your the one making it all contradict. the only way it wont for you is to ignore them or add to them.

So your saying Acts 2:21 and Acts 2:38 do not contradict? I agree. Since "saved" and 'remission of sins" are the same thing, then the same thing that saves must also remit sins, thus "calling on the name of the Lord" must be the same as "repenting and being baptized". Acts 22:16 Saul/Paul was calling upon the name of the Lord when he was baptized and had his sins washed away. It all fits together so perfectly.

as above. NO everyone who does not believe is condemed already. SEEING how you dont accept that we cold never do anything to have our sins removed or total depravity. which is in rom 8 and others. our fleshful nature is the same as sinfull nature. WHY wont you deal with rom 8. it rather clear we cant please GOd without christ in us. If we could be OBEDIANT in our flesh there would be no need of Christ dieing on the cross.

Again, the bible does not teach that man has a "sinful nature", from Gen 4:7 Cain sure did not have one. Rom 2:14 The Gentiles did not have God's law, but did BY NATURE the things contained in the law. This would have been impossible if "sinful nature" were true.

YOUR JUST ignoring the passage. every passage about it shows it does not include water baptism acts 15:8 shows it is what is in our hearts as does rom 10:8-10. ITS THERE stop ignoring it. IT does you just dont like to see it.

Maybe I can't see it because no passage says "faith only saves"...if it's not there...I can't see it.

 

[jmacvols]

notice NO other passages to back up this claim. only you ignoring ones and making them say what they CLEARLY CLEARLY dont say. AND AGAIN that verse DOES NOT say water baptism last till the end . IT SAY A LO I WILL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS, UNTILL THE END. the whole untill the end was ENPHESISING him saying ALWAYS. And water baptism was SOOOOO important Paul said he was glad he only baptized a few. SURE. and 1 cor 12:13 is RATHER OBVIOUSLY CLEAR. we were ALL baptised by the ONE Spirit into the ONE body. sounds like eph 4. not that that counts for you.

You say "No other passages to make up this claim"
What's that suppose to mean?
Something needs to be said only once in the bible to make it true, it doesn''t have to be said mulitple times to be true.
Mt 28:19,20 is very clear, it's your posts that are "hazy".
It's clear that Jesus told His disciples to do the baptizing, thus this passage is talking about human administered water baptism...this is NOT some kind of "Spirit baptism".
It's clear that making disciples is a necessity in order for Christianity to continue until the end of the world.
It's clear that making disciples is done by baptizing them. The participle 'baptizing' explains 'how' the disciples are made.
It's clear therefore that water baptism is what makes one a disciple, thus it is necessary that water baptism last till the end of the world so new disciples can be made to keep Chrsitianity going. Therefore EPh 4:5 must be water baptism, for water baptism must last till the end of the world for the church to continue.

 

[RefrusRevlis]

Your reliance on manmade traditions has blinded you . The Jewish act of water baptism is no more powerful than the Jewish act of circumcism .

Neither circumcision nor baptism are/were from man.

Trying to bind the OT command of circumcision during NT times is a doctrine of man's.

Jesus gave the great commission:

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

You have replaced the Law with another law . Paul stated that if *any* set of laws could bring righteousness , that set would have been the Law . You have taken out the law and brought in something else .

I haven't replaced anything with anything - you must have confused me with Jesus. He brought in the perfect law of liberty. Under this law we are expected to do some things, this however does not mean we earn salvation.

James 1:22-25

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

You only want people to be water baptized so that you can brag about their flesh .

No, I want them to be baptised because it is a command and because it washes away sins:

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

You are trying to convince others to be justified by this new "law" of yours and alienate them from Christ .

Refrus

 

[Schroeder]

You say "No other passages to make up this claim"
What's that suppose to mean?
Something needs to be said only once in the bible to make it true, it doesn''t have to be said mulitple times to be true.
Mt 28:19,20 is very clear, it's your posts that are "hazy".
It's clear that Jesus told His disciples to do the baptizing, thus this passage is talking about human administered water baptism...this is NOT some kind of "Spirit baptism".
It's clear that making disciples is a necessity in order for Christianity to continue until the end of the world.
It's clear that making disciples is done by baptizing them. The participle 'baptizing' explains 'how' the disciples are made.
It's clear therefore that water baptism is what makes one a disciple, thus it is necessary that water baptism last till the end of the world so new disciples can be made to keep Chrsitianity going. Therefore EPh 4:5 must be water baptism, for water baptism must last till the end of the world for the church to continue.

you cherry pick scriputre that is clear. Yes it is obviouse for chrisitianity to continue one must be saved, you could say a disciple though one can be a disciple and not saved. Judas was and he wasnt saved or truelly believed. The whole , it is clear one must be water baptized to be a disciple is stupid, because it is NO where else in scripture. IT is never mentioned as such anywhere else. SO thus it is necessary to keep it untill the end, AGAIN YOU REFUSE TO SEE IT CORRECTLY. for crying out loud, you can still make your incorrect statement about it being water baptism and not say The part of untill the end is speaking of water baptism. it is SOOOO clear it isnt. Just shows your blind willingness to see it the way you want NOT the way it is. It can be a participle as well if it meant, THis is what making a disciple will do, JOIN them into the Church. which is what 1 cor 12:13 says CORRECT. And that is truelly what they did. FOr it is NOT them that bring them into the Church it is God because it is God who saves. Them going and sharing the Gospel brings one into the Church when they believe.

 

[Schroeder]

1 Cor 12:13 say BY one Spirit, not WITH one Spirit.

well it should because that is what Jn 3:6 says the SPirit gives the Spirit. What is the difference really of "by" or "with". BY Christ WITH his SPirit we are baptized. PLEASE axplain what it means then. " By one SPirit we are all baptized" what does the "by" stand for. the way you read it it say "by" the SPirit we are all "water" baptized. YOu cant prove this. heres your idea "show me proof you were water baptized "by" the SPirit".

As has been shown to you before, in Jn 4:1,2. Verse 2 says Jesus baptized not, yet verse 1 says Jesus baptized. Is this a contradiction? No, for Jesus baptized not personally, but He baptized by giving His authority to His disciples to baptize. The Holy SPirit does not baptize Himself personally, He baptizes by giving His authority to the disciples to baptize, just as He gave Paul the authority to water baptize some of the Corinthians. Again, EPh 4:5 says ONE baptism, we see Paul water baptizing the Corinthians in 1 COr 1:14,16 and we see you trying to make 1 COr 12:13 a different baptism thus creating two, not one.

This you decide is what it says because it doesnt say this anywhere. You could easily say it is just one way of saying it. HOw it is said by a different observer. Again you wont give scripture to back this up because it is not there. your just saying out of what you think it is saying. Gave him JUST SOME, funny seeeing how important it is. explain this SOME and not ALL. why did NOT any of the disciple EVER teach about it in any of there epistles. ! cor 12:13 is clear it say ONE Spirit ONE body. same as in eph 4. your the one changing it all around. there was TWO thats obviouse, you refuse to admit it because then it might make you see passages differently. i am not afraid to do such a thing. There were three different ways the word baptism was used. I can freely see this as well.

False teachers have created the ides of a "sinful nature", the bible teaches otherwise. See Gen 4:4-8, note what God said to Cain in v7. If Cain had a "sinful nature" he could not do well nor rule over sin.

i will look this up. but your still ignoring rom 8 WHY? Cain did kill Abel. But he was such a good man. And why would God kick out Adam and Eve if they were not in a sinfull nature. The garden was perfect they were not anymore. your idea doesnt EVER add up.

Mt 28:19,20

Any OTHER passage. none of the other gospel buts it this way NOR is it found anywhere else in scriputre of this idea.

If Joel's prophecy has not been fulfilled then Jesus was not the Messiah and every jot and tittle of the OT law is still in place and in effect. Has Acts 2:21 come to pass? Verses 19,20 referencing the crucifixition of Christ.

good heavens you will not look at the REST REST REST REST REST of the prophecy will you. PLEASE show me were the REST REST REST of it was fulfilled in the passages you say it was fulfilled. He is the messiah because his spirit is bing put in us today and it is given to ALL flesh not just the jews.

I did a word check and could not find a verse that says to believe and accept Him into your heart...no such vers exists.

I diid a word search and could not find any place that said water baptized. funny since you keep seeing it. IT said they BELIEVED and he SAW THEIR HEARTS and ACCEPTED them. ARE you saying we dont need to ACCEPT him inot our hearts JUST get water baptized that will do it. That is ALL GOd sees, our works. WRONG. Your just trying desperetly to ignore or get around the VERY OBVIOUSE.

Acts 15:8 "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as unto us." Peter is saying God gave the Gentiles in Acts 10 the Holy GHost as He did the Apostles in Acts 2. Absolutley nothing here says Cornelius was saved before he was water baptized.

Still trying to make it this way. ignoring all the passages i give you. WHERE does scripture say the apostles were water baptized to receive the spirit. NOTHING WHAT SO EVER IN ACTS 10 THAT SAYS THEY WERE SAVED ONLY AFTER THEY WERE WATER BAPTIZED. again FUNNY you will allow this but not a more obviouse comnclusion backed up with scripture. Peter NEVER says be water baptized to be saved for the forgiveness of your sins ect. he tells them when they BELIEVE they will recieve forgiveness of sins. Acts 15:8 just confirms this. The ONLY way God would ACCEPT them is if they had the SPirit and their sins were gone. That is what He told them to do in Jn 6:29. and what is said in ROm 8.

Peter has already said inn Acts 2:38 that baptism is for the remission of sins. NO VERSE say "belief alone" forgives sins, Acts 10:43 does not say belief alone forgives sins. Biblical belief ia an action word, it includes being baptized. As shown to you before in Acts 2:41, those that gladly recieved Peter's wrods were baptized, so theose that rejected his words refused to be baptized. In verse 44 it says all that believed were together. Now who were the ones that believed? The ones that gladly accepted Peter's words and baptized or those that rejected his words and not baptized? Obviously the ones that believed were the ones baptized. So here we have the word "believe" include eing baptized.

Again ALL of scriputre says ONLY blood can remove sin, the WHOLE reason Christ died. to shed his blood for the blood sacrifice that the OLD sacrifices COULD NOT DO. its in heb 10. YOu do know it doesnt say they were all "WATER" baptized just baptized. The ones that GOd saw in their hearts TRUELLY believed.

You do not deal with Acts 10:35 where Cornelius was to work righteousness to be accepted with God. Working righteousness is obeying GOd's commands, so when COrnelius obeyed the command to be water baptized, he then was accepted with God, not before. Also note that the Holy Ghost fell upon Cornelius before Peter told him Acts 10:43, can Cornelius be "saved" before he believed? No.

SCRIPTURE DOES NOT say this. Acts 15:8 shows clearly that this is wrong. get over it. Its a flat lie to say otherwise. IT was NOT before it states DURING or while he was still speaking. YOur trying to hard to ignore scripture, its starting to show.

So your saying Acts 2:21 and Acts 2:38 do not contradict? I agree. Since "saved" and 'remission of sins" are the same thing, then the same thing that saves must also remit sins, thus "calling on the name of the Lord" must be the same as "repenting and being baptized". Acts 22:16 Saul/Paul was calling upon the name of the Lord when he was baptized and had his sins washed away. It all fits together so perfectly.

Nothing contradicts. Fact is Christ did what remits sin SHEDDING HIS BLOOD. no scripture says it takes both shedding blood and getting water baptized to make our sins forgiven. you just cant see it. If he was calling on the name of the lord he was SPirit baptized. which washed his sins away because it is Christ in him that God now sees. A look at ALL of scripture shows this. When baptism can mean SPirit baptism and not "water" baptism. Your just adding the word "water" i add "spirit" mine makes more since in the light of what GRACE means and that the shedding opf blood is the only thing that removes sin.

Again, the bible does not teach that man has a "sinful nature", from Gen 4:7 Cain sure did not have one. Rom 2:14 The Gentiles did not have God's law, but did BY NATURE the things contained in the law. This would have been impossible if "sinful nature" were true.

yes it would. The Law did not save so to follow it di not please God. Heb even says this. read it.

Maybe I can't see it because no passage says "faith only saves"...if it's not there...I can't see it.

OBVIOUSLY. nO PASSAGES SAY "WATER" BAPTISM but OF COURSE THIS DOESNT STOP YOU FROM USING IT DOES IT. when i passages speaks "only" of having belief or faith then one might conclude it means "only" seeing how that is what Christ told them in Jn 6:28-29 that GOd said was our work. to BELIEVE. that would be our work "faith only".

 

[Schroeder]

Neither circumcision nor baptism are/were from man.

Trying to bind the OT command of circumcision during NT times is a doctrine of man's.

Jesus gave the great commission:

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

why cant it be EMMERSING them into the name of... or joining or such. even refernecing SPirit baptism. is not the father son and SPirit the ONE BODY. i think so. so 1 cor 12:13 shows it is the SPirit. It is stating what making disciple does and what they did do. made disciples and joined or immersed them into the Church, THEN taught them..





I

haven't replaced anything with anything - you must have confused me with Jesus. He brought in the perfect law of liberty. Under this law we are expected to do some things, this however does not mean we earn salvation.

James 1:22-25

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

this is about the POINT of salvation not before or after. which is what this passage is about AFTER.

No, I want them to be baptised because it is a command and because it washes away sins:

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’





Refrus

again NOTHING but BLOOD remits sin. which is why CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS. doesnt take blood and water baptism. heb 10. the SPirit washes away sin. because it is when we are reborn that the PSirit takes over the flesh. Titus 3:5 shows this WASHING. The apostles NEVER teach it as a command EVER EVER.

 

[RefrusRevlis]

again NOTHING but BLOOD remits sin. which is why CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS. doesnt take blood and water baptism.

So you don't believe the Bible where it says
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
The language is quite clear, Paul had to submit to a baptism to have his sins washed away. This was not "baptism in the Spirit" - that sort of baptism was not something one could submit to, God gave it as he willed. Baptism in water is the act of obedience at which on receives their sins removed. The use of the word wash hints strongly at water.

Water is actually used in relation to our sanctification in Eph 5:26

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and lgave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

heb 10. the SPirit washes away sin. because it is when we are reborn that the PSirit takes over the flesh. Titus 3:5 shows this WASHING.

Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


Yes the Spirit washes away sins, but the question is "when?". The testimony of the other scriptures shows this to be at baptism in water - remember Act 22:16

Hebrews 10:22-23
let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

The apostles NEVER teach it as a command EVER EVER.

Peter was an Apostle, he said (by the Holy Spirit):

Acts 2:38

Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The use of the word "let" in the English does not mean "if you want to, but if you don't it's ok". If you want to receive the remission of sins- you had better do this was Peter's meaning. It is in the imperative mood in the Greek - Just as the word "repent" is. Just as repentance is not optional, neither is baptism.

Remember there is one Baptism (which unites the church) - Eph 4:5, this is the baptism that Peter commanded and Jesus commanded. (Matth 28:19-20).

You are making the scriptures conflict with each other and are actually being self-contradictory in saying:

Statement 1

NOTHING but BLOOD remits sin

(Emphasis mine)

and then saying:

Statement 2

the SPirit washes away sin

According to your reasoning, if statement 1 is correct then statement 2 is not.

Refrus

 

[Schroeder]

So you don't believe the Bible where it says
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
The language is quite clear, Paul had to submit to a baptism to have his sins washed away. This was not "baptism in the Spirit" - that sort of baptism was not something one could submit to, God gave it as he willed. Baptism in water is the act of obedience at which on receives their sins removed. The use of the word wash hints strongly at water.

hwy could the word baptism NOT be about the Spirit. the whole one could not submit to is silly. to submit to the SPirit baptism one must BELIEVE in there heart and they will receive it. acts 15:8 shows this. Again Why not explain how one can be obediant in their sins? Rom 8 strongly suggest its not possible to please him without the Spirit in you already. SO AGAIN explain how we can be OBEDIANT in our sins. If this was remotely possible why did Christ die on the cross.

Water is actually used in relation to our sanctification in Eph 5:26

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and lgave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

nothing to do with water baptism, just because one sees a hint of water doesnt make it water baptism. Jn 4,7 show water in relation to the SPirit so there is more to make hints of water or washing be the SPirit then water baptism.

Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


Yes the Spirit washes away sins, but the question is "when?". The testimony of the other scriptures shows this to be at baptism in water - remember Act 22:16

SEE "WASHING" is used wiht the PSirit, yet you will use it with water baptism, scripture seems clear it is associated with what the Spirit does not what water baptism does. NO because EVERY passage says one receive the Spirit when they BELIEVE. gal 3:2,14, eph 1:13-14 and others.

Hebrews 10:22-23
let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

see above. washing is done by the Spirit. only thing PURE is GOD which includes his SPirit.

Peter was an Apostle, he said (by the Holy Spirit):

Acts 2:38

Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The use of the word "let" in the English does not mean "if you want to, but if you don't it's ok". If you want to receive the remission of sins- you had better do this was Peter's meaning. It is in the imperative mood in the Greek - Just as the word "repent" is. Just as repentance is not optional, neither is baptism.

the word "baptism" does not ONLY mean water baptism. And it is worded as repent and be baptized, EVERY ONE OF YOU, in the name of.... And i have read commentaries that say it is better read,, rpent and be........ in light of the forgiveness of your sins. But it could just as easily be spirit baptism since that is what JUST happened to them. And Jesus did say the Spirit gives the SPirit did he not. One must repent and believe that is what ALL the other passages say, the only way it wont contradict what Jesus said in Jn. 3:16 and others, believe in me for eternal life is if BELIEF is all the is reguired and lo and behold that is what he said GOd said is our work Jn 6:29. Spirit baptism is not administered by us which is why it is what is being spoke of because that is what GRACE is God saving us in our sins. It is being washed clean through Christ.

Remember there is one Baptism (which unites the church) - Eph 4:5, this is the baptism that Peter commanded and Jesus commanded. (Matth 28:19-20).

1 cor. 12:13 is CLEAR what joins one into the Church. spirit baptism, it is clear this is the ONE baptism because it says so, we are ALL BAPTIZED by the one SPIRIT into the one BODY. Seeing how the word baptism in matt. 28 is not about water baptism makes that claim mute. None of the other gospels makes even a close claim to this idea.

You are making the scriptures conflict with each other and are actually being self-contradictory in saying:

Statement 1
(Emphasis mine)

and then saying:

Statement 2


According to your reasoning, if statement 1 is correct then statement 2 is not.

Refrus

i suppose in a sense i am. It is the SPirit that unites us with Christ who shed his blood and washed away the curse of sin being death. Scripture is clear only blood can remove the curse of sin. Heb. makes this clear. Only Christ was perfect and could shed his blood to do it. which is why it says it was ONCE FOR ALL for the forgiveness of sins. YOu saying one must be water baptized for forgiveness of sins is CONTRADICTORY to scripture. BECAUSE it was already done ONCE FOR ALL. or do you not believe this. So i will claim i self contradicted myself but not scripture. The SPirit is Christ who did shed his blood and washed it away for me. SO in a way i am not wrong, but maybe in a way i am, they are fairly close to saying the same thing. It is still NOT me doing anything, it is Christ doing the saving or washing. I am saved in my sins which is what GRACE is.

 

[brideoftwisted]

Just my opinion, but I believe that you must first accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to be saved. Baptism is symbolic of your new life in Christ, sin being washed away and the emergence of you as a new creation.

Baptism alone, without a serious profession of faith, is just a dunk. Without the conviction of the Holy Spirit, it means nothing.

I agree with JDIBe, your friend needs some help. If he's getting violent with you about the whole thing, you might want to either leave it alone altogether or consult with your pastor and find a different tack.

 

[Zecryphon]

Did i get you with my title? Good.

My friend, Mike (whom you would find out about in the Prayer Request Section) starts cussing me out because I told him that being baptised doesn't get you saved. And he's screaming and cussing at me, threatening to throw me across the room (Note: This is everyday life for him) because he said, I got baptised and I'm going to heaven...

It kind of made me think....are you saved if your baptised. In the bible it says that 'If you confess with your tongue that Christ is Lord, then you are saved" But i also heard that Jesus wants you to get baptised...just curious

You will know them by their fruit. Your friend Mike is not bearing good fruit. Cussing and violence? This is everyday life for him? Where's the love of Christ, man? Jesus said in Luke 13:3 "repent or you too shall perish." It is by confessing with the tongue that we are saved. We need to repent, which means acknowledging to God that we have broken His laws and are sinners, confessing those sins to God, and turning away from our sins. Then we need to have faith in Christ for salvation and eternal life. That is how one becomes "born again". Not by getting dunked in holy water and having a prayer said over you. It is only by the leading of the Holy Spirit that we will ever come to faith in Christ and confess our sins to God. We can't do anything to save ourselves, God does it all! That's why God gets all the credit!

 

[Zecryphon]

I think baptism is symbolic of what has already happened in your heart and life. It doesn't have any magical properties to get you saved if your not. That is nowhere in the bible.

Oh Jeff, we need to get together and talk as we seem to disagree! LOL Good to see you again!

 

[Zecryphon]

So if Hitler on his deathbed professed his faith in Christ, truly renounced all his sins you believe he is sitting up in heaven?

And nothing is a guarentee, just because the bible says so does not mean God is obligated to follow it. That book does not control him, an all powerful entity. He can admit and deny whom ever he wants from heaven.

"So if Hitler on his deathbed professed his faith in Christ, truly renounced all his sins you believe he is sitting up in heaven?"

Yep! That's what makes God's grace so amazing! If God can save someone as detestable as Hitler, imagine what He can do for you!

"And nothing is a guarentee, just because the bible says so does not mean God is obligated to follow it."

The Bible is God's revelation about Himself to mankind. God is bound by His word! God can not lie, so if God makes a promise to save all who repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, God is bound by His own promise to do just that!

"That book does not control him, an all powerful entity. He can admit and deny whom ever he wants from heaven."

The Book is Him revealed to us! God can admit or deny anyone entrance to Heaven but that decision is based upon whether or not the person seeking entrance has repented of their sin and has faith in Christ. Nothing else. That's God's standard. Faith in Him through Christ whom God promised to be our messiah and the way back to Him.

 

[david1988]

Did i get you with my title? Good.

My friend, Mike (whom you would find out about in the Prayer Request Section) starts cussing me out because I told him that being baptised doesn't get you saved. And he's screaming and cussing at me, threatening to throw me across the room (Note: This is everyday life for him) because he said, I got baptised and I'm going to heaven...

It kind of made me think....are you saved if your baptised. In the bible it says that 'If you confess with your tongue that Christ is Lord, then you are saved" But i also heard that Jesus wants you to get baptised...just curious

Here's a question to ask anyone who tells you that Baptism is a requirement to be saved and to enter heaven.

Do you remember the thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus?

The thief confessed his sadness for his sins and recognized that Jesus is indeed the savior.

What did Jesus say to him? He said "Today you will be with me in Paradise."

Jesus didn't say, sorry bud, but you gotta get baptized to be saved.

And I seriously doubt the thief got off his cross to get baptized and then was put back up on the cross again.