Are You Convinced?

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Do you know what a Baptist believes about scripture and are you convinced? If so, why do you use "Christian" or "Non-Denominational" as your "Faith?" Are you really not a Baptist and just thought you'd drop in and post?

Thanks,

jm

I have been raised as a Baptist all my life. I am not ashamed to declare myself as a Baptist.

Actually, I found it very important to actually choose ‘Baptist’ in my ‘Faith’ section. The reason, of course, was that, being a Christian who likes to study the Bible and different viewpoints on it, the mere indication of ‘Christian’ would be too vague. I mean, Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians! I would not want to be identified with those. In fact, I would not want to be identified with any denomination which upholds that which is, in my view, incorrect theology. Therefore, I chose ‘Baptist’, because I am proud of my denomination.

 

[Swan7]

Do you know what a Baptist believes about scripture and are you convinced? If so, why do you use "Christian" or "Non-Denominational" as your "Faith?" Are you really not a Baptist and just thought you'd drop in and post?

Thanks,

jm

I grew up in a Baptist church, so I am well "versed" in its belief system and that is why I chose Baptist as Faith. However, I am by far a Christian first and foremost. I hate labels, to be honest and in all honesty, that's is where I see most fights/arguments from the many denominations we have. It's sad, really.

 

[twin1954]

I grew up in a Baptist church, so I am well "versed" in its belief system and that is why I chose Baptist as Faith. However, I am by far a Christian first and foremost. I hate labels, to be honest and in all honesty, that's is where I see most fights/arguments from the many denominations we have. It's sad, really.

Denominations divide over some very essential truths. In my opinion to say that you are non-denominational is to say that you don't really believe anything actually. I am a Baptist because I am convinced that Baptists are closer to the truths of the Scriptures than any other. I do not extend the hand of fellowship to just anyone either. There must be some agreement for us to walk together.

 

[Swan7]

I did not say I was non-denominational. I said that I am a Christian first.

 

[twin1954]

I did not say I was non-denominational. I said that I am a Christian first.

OK, but what does that mean?

 

[Swan7]

OK, but what does that mean?

Meaning, I follow God's Word - the Bible.

 

[twin1954]

Meaning, I follow God's Word - the Bible.

So then there are some you would not call your brothers or sisters? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Toro]

Funny how you read that, all I read from it was a woman that believes it more important to follow Christ than to worry about labels.

I read nowhere in there her saying she doesn't feel her brothers and sisters are limited to those that agree with her.

 

[MotherFirefly]

I read nowhere in there her saying she doesn't feel her brothers and sisters are limited to those that agree with her.

It would require someone of much ignorance and hate to believe as such.

 

[twin1954]

Funny how you read that, all I read from it was a woman that believes it more important to follow Christ than to worry about labels.

I read nowhere in there her saying she doesn't feel her brothers and sisters are limited to those that agree with her.

There must be a line drawn somewhere. I was just seeking to define where hers was.

Anyone can call themselves a christian but that isn't what actually makes one is it.

 

[Toro]

There must be a line drawn somewhere. I was just seeking to define where hers was.

Anyone can call themselves a christian but that isn't what actually makes one is it.

Where did Jesus draw the line?

Did He say "Love thy neighbor as yourself unless they believe unlike you?"

 

[twin1954]

Where did Jesus draw the line?

Well He certainly didn't have anything good to say to or about the Pharisees did He. In fact He drew many lines in the sand to distinguish believers from unbelievers who followed Him out of curiosity or in order to see something new. The Apostles also drew lines to determine who were true believers and not. Unless you skip over the passages that you don't like you cannot miss it.

 

[Toro]

Well He certainly didn't have anything good to say to or about the Pharisees did He. In fact He drew many lines in the sand to distinguish believers from unbelievers who followed Him out of curiosity or in order to see something new. The Apostles also drew lines to determine who were true believers and not. Unless you skip over the passages that you don't like you cannot miss it.

But He didn't love them less. (We are ALL brother and sisters)

You CAN in fact love the sinner and not the sin.

 

[twin1954]

But He didn't love them less. (We are ALL brother and sisters)

You CAN in fact love the sinner and not the sin.

Please show me where that is stated in the Scriptures. I am afraid that you have fallen to a false idea of what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[Toro]

If I have fallen to false ideals than I would rather do so in loving rather than for the reasons of judging.

Spoiler: Luke 6:27-36

Love for Enemies
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Spoiler: Matthew 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[twin1954]

If I have fallen to false ideals than I would rather do so in loving rather than for the reasons of judging.

Spoiler: Luke 6:27-36

Love for Enemies
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Spoiler: Matthew 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Please read the context of those two statements. Neither in any way teach that God loves all men. In fact the Scriptures declare most clearly that He doesn't. Moreover His mercy is certainly distinctive and sovereignly given. We who are the people of God are called to be merciful and loving because our Great God and Savior has been so to us. But the fact that we are called to be loving and merciful in no way means that He loves all men or has mercy on all men.

Understanding truth doesn't mean that you are being judgmental or that you are being unloving. It simply means that you understand the difference between a true believer and a false professor. It simply means that you grasp the importance of truth as actually revealed in the Scriptures and take a stand on it against all opposition.

The only one who would tell a lost sinner that he is saved is another lost sinner.

 

[Toro]

Please read the context of those two statements. Neither in any way teach that God loves all men. In fact the Scriptures declare most clearly that He doesn't. Moreover His mercy is certainly distinctive and sovereignly given. We who are the people of God are called to be merciful and loving because our Great God and Savior has been so to us. But the fact that we are called to be loving and merciful in no way means that He loves all men or has mercy on all men.

Understanding truth doesn't mean that you are being judgmental or that you are being unloving. It simply means that you understand the difference between a true believer and a false professor. It simply means that you grasp the importance of truth as actually revealed in the Scriptures and take a stand on it against all opposition.

The only one who would tell a lost sinner that he is saved is another lost sinner.

God IS LOVE, He LOVES His children. ALL His children, not just those that worship and follow Him. IF God hated those that were unrighteous then He would not have sent Jesus as NONE are worthy.

You need to learn the difference between His wrath and His love. He will NOT tolerate His children doing wrong and vile things for very long, that does not mean He has no love for them. After all, Satan IS His favorite angel and the very reason ANYONE opposes God in the first place. Yet, still He loves.

Since YOU love to ask "where's the line?" where does God draw the line at His love? He hates our sin or an unrepentant cold/hardened heart, not we His creation.

 

[twin1954]

God IS LOVE, He LOVES His children. ALL His children, not just those that worship and follow Him. IF God hated those that were unrighteous then He would not have sent Jesus as NONE are worthy.

You need to learn the difference between His wrath and His love. He will NOT tolerate His children doing wrong and vile things for very long, that does not mean He has no love for them. After all, Satan IS His favorite angel and the very reason ANYONE opposes God in the first place. Yet, still He loves.

Since YOU love to ask "where's the line?" where does God draw the line at His love? He hates our sin or an unrepentant cold/hardened heart, not we His creation.

I certainly know the difference between His wrath and His love. It is you who don't seem to understand that both must be consistent. Have you never read the Old Testament? Do you suppose that God changed when Christ was born?

Your theology would make the love of God to be a pointless, powerless and extremely frustrated emotion in God which is just like it is in men. It makes the love of God to be a useless emotion that can actually do nothing for the objects of His love. The Bible in no place teaches that God loves all men as His children. It teaches that He love His people.

Just so you know, I have studied the Scriptures and theology for more than 30 years and have a library with thousands of volumes, not to mention those online and on cd, on the study and exposition of the Scriptures. I am a man called of God to preach His Gospel and teach His people the things concerning Christ. I am no novice or one who needs to be taught by just anyone on the internet.

You would do well to just forget all that you naturally think about God or have been taught, since it is error, and sit down and actually read the Scriptures without your presuppositions seeking to find out the teaching of the whole of the Scriptures and their consistency. No passage of the Scriptures stands alone but must be understood in its immediate context and the context of the teaching of the Scriptures as a whole.

Now I do not desire to turn this thread into a Calvinist/Arminian debate so I will leave it there.

If you study Baptist history to any extent you will find that Baptists have been Calvinistic in their theology for as long as there has been men called Baptists.

 

[Swan7]

Just so you know, I have studied the Scriptures and theology for more than 30 years and have a library with thousands of volumes, not to mention those online and on cd, on the study and exposition of the Scriptures. I am a man called of God to preach His Gospel and teach His people the things concerning Christ. I am no novice or one who needs to be taught by just anyone on the internet.

Ok, so you mean to say you are self-taught and you rely on your own understanding.... and anyone else on the internet is null and void - even when they have the Spirit in them... are void of life?
Do you believe that the Bible is the Authority of God?

 

[twin1954]

Ok, so you mean to say you are self-taught and you rely on your own understanding.... and anyone else on the internet is null and void - even when they have the Spirit in them... are void of life?
Do you believe that the Bible is the Authority of God?

No not self taught but Spirit taught and with the added council of other men who are Spirit taught and called to preach His Gospel. I am not in any way and island of belief. I use the writings of men who were extremely well versed in the teachings of the Scriptures as well as pastors and men of undeniable education and spirit in the things of the Lord to check myself.

Those who have the Spirit do not teach Christ as He is not revealed in the Scriptures.

If I did not believe that the Bible is our only authority for faith and practice I wouldn't take a stand on it as I do.