Are you a Calvinist?

[theseed]

The ULIP part of TULIP is based on the "T", Total Depravity.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

Nope - never have been and never will be !!

I have found in my 30 years of studing God's Word much teaching contrary to Calvin's TULIP doctrine.

I believe God has commanded all men to repent. (Acts 17:30) God is not willing that any should perish but that ALL SHOULD COME to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). This speaks of the free will of the individual to obey God and repent or disobey and remain in their sins. I believe Christ died for ALL men - "for God so loved the WORLD...that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16) Paul calls Christ the "Saviour of ALL men - specially of those that believe." (1 Tim 4:10)

As for "Perserverance of the Saints" (aka OSAS) i STRONGLY disagree with this tenet of Calvinism. Salvation is conditional upon (remaining) abiding in Christ (John 15) Jesus says "If ye abide in me...." AND "If any man abide NOT in Me he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered...." One can't be a branch attached to the Vine (Christ) unless he truly belongs to Him ! One must "endure to the end" to be saved (Matt 10:22) Paul makes reference to those who make shipwreck of their faith (1 Tim 1:19) One can't make shipwreck of something they don't have in the first place - the men mentioned had saving faith but fell away on account of teaching heresy. Peter talks of those who, "after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." (2 Pet 2:20, 21) If you study the early Church Father's and even the Reformer's - they did not believe in "eternal security" They believed salvation to be conditional upon continued obedience to Christ. When facing death, they were given opportunity to renounce Christ and save their lives but refused saying that if they denied Christ, He would deny them before the Father (Matt 10:33) - thereby forfeiting eternal life as a result.

For the above reasons (and others) i reject Calvinism.


Ray

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

So you're not even Baptist? What cult are you in?

 

[Athanasian Creed]

I BEG your pardon ??!!

That is not only RUDE but SLANDEROUS sir - read some of my previous posts before opening your mouth. You will see i'm a born again Christian who loves Jesus very much !!!

Please retract your slander immediately !


Thank you


Ray


P.S. I forgive you

 

[theseed]

So you're not even Baptist? What cult are you in?

Bro. Gabriel, that is uncalled for.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

see....most calvinists cant have a discussion about this without name calling or slandering someone who doesnt believe what they do.

 

[theseed]

see....most calvinists cant have a discussion about this without name calling or slandering someone who doesnt believe what they do.

No, you are slandering Calvinist by saying that, and now you have proven that your are an offenisive Anti-Calvinist.

 

[theseed]

Nope.

Like Calvinists, though.

Thank you.

 

[Kas]

ne-yet

 

[rnmomof7]

I enjoyed reading the discussion.

I have a son that is a reformed Baptist (Pipers church)

My personal beliefs line up more with Baptists , but we do not have a reformed Baptist church in our area

The Baptists get to claim Spurgeon as a fine Reform Baptist.

For any with an interest in the early Baptist confessions here is a Site that has them all

http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/hbd.htm


God Bless you all , reform or not we are family in Christ !!

 

[TwinCrier]

So you're not even Baptist? What cult are you in?

The TULIP is Calvin's theory, and Calvin was a man. Besides, shouldn't a calvinist just accept that we are not of the 'elect' and leave us to our doom? It's not like you, us, or even Christ Himself has the power to save us according to your doctrine.

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die. Ezekiel 33:11

 

[theseed]

The TULIP is Calvin's theory,

False, Calvin did not invent TULIP himself.

Besides, shouldn't a calvinist just accept that we are not of the 'elect' and leave us to our doom?

Who are the "we"? And how is it that you know they are not elect? There is nothing in Calvinism that ever claimed we could know who the elect are. So your arguement is a straw man.

It's not like you, us, or even Christ Himself has the power to save us according to your doctrine.

Are you saying that God can't save us? Are you saying that according to other doctrine we can save other people? That's not biblical.

I suggest that you read my myths of [about] Calvinism thread in Christian Apologetics.

 

[TwinCrier]

False, Calvin did not invent TULIP himself.



Who are the "we"? And how is it that you know they are not elect? There is nothing in Calvinism that ever claimed we could know who the elect are. So your arguement is a straw man.



Are you saying that God can't save us? Are you saying that according to other doctrine we can save other people? That's not biblical.

I suggest that you read my myths of [about] Calvinism thread in Christian Apologetics.

Calvin invented the whole total depravity and unconditional election doctrine. "We" means non Calvinists. So we just have to wait til we die and see if God decided before he created us ather or not we go to heaven? So, since Calvinism doesn't claim we can know if we are elect, we can't know if we're going to heaven til we get ther and we can't do anything to get their if we don't? I'm not saying God can't save us, I'm saying your doctrine is that it's already decided. If God hasn't chosen us, too bad. The only person who can claim salvation is us. Calvinism is a doctrine of hopelessness. If You're not of the elect, Jesus didn't die for you and you can't get saved.

 

[Beoga]

Funny, cause wasn't Augustine believing in total depravity? And wasn't he before Calvin's time?
Calvinism is not doctrines of hopelessness, but doctrines of security. In Calvinism, you look to God and not to yourself. You are able to praise God for all that he has done and not worry about you messing up and being loss for ever. You are able to bask in God's love.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

It's not "Calvin's teachings" we're talking about here, but Orthodox Christian beliefs from the 4th and 5th Century A.D. that were made known and solid as a result and reaction to early heretics of the Christian Church (Pelagius).

 

[TwinCrier]

Funny, cause wasn't Augustine believing in total depravity? And wasn't he before Calvin's time?
Calvinism is not doctrines of hopelessness, but doctrines of security. In Calvinism, you look to God and not to yourself. You are able to praise God for all that he has done and not worry about you messing up and being loss for ever. You are able to bask in God's love.

yeah, but only if your elected. otherwise, it's to the pit of hell you go.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

Funny, you get so upset about "Calvinism" but quote one of it's biggest supporters and pushers of the last 200 years in your signature!

 

[TwinCrier]

I quoted Ghandi a while back too. Doesn't make me a Hindu.
I quote Mother Theresa a lot, don't mean I've become Catholic.

Don't Calvinists ever fear that they will get to heaven and find out they were right... but that they are not of the elect?

 

[theseed]

Calvinists. So we just have to wait til we die and see if God decided before he created us ather or not we go to heaven

Nope. Do you really not understand?

So, since Calvinism doesn't claim we can know if we are elect,

That's not what I said, you have twisted my words to say the opposite. If you can't get this right, then you may actually misunderstand what Calvinism teaches.

I said that you CAN'T know who is NOT elect.

 

[Asar'el]

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: I believe the principles summarized by Calvin, usually known by the TULIP acronym, are biblical; I don't think he can be said to have come up with them, but rather that he drew his conclusions from scripture, and put them down in a compact form (in response to Arminian conlusions). Now, there is still a great deal of room about just exactly those principles mean, and no doubt there is room for difference between 'Calvinist' and 'Calvinist', and probably Calvin himself, lol - sometimes more than between 'Calvinist' and 'non-Calvinist', it seems

With due respect to Athanasian Creed above, I believe it is usually a matter of interpretation (of Calvin! not scripture!) that some passages seem in conflict with Calvin's TULIP principles. Of course, some may be a different understanding of scripture also; I hope AC did not mean to imply that the elect have something to boast about in their salvation (by using untainted will to repent, for example ?) - but his comment could be taken that way; even so Calvin's principles have been twisted at times, far beyond what I think is reasonable