Are we salvation cult?

[friend of]

Do they do so by selling their religion or in promoting the message of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which happily proclaims man's reign over man is over

What's the difference between promoting Christianity and preaching the gospel?

 

[timothyu]

What's the difference between promoting Christianity and preaching the gospel?

Simply because one was institutionalized and ritualized while the other was an everyday way of life in human interaction complete with hands on loving of all as self. Man was commanded to do so while God did His thing in restoring order. The institution built an empire forgiving sins while the movement of loving all as self died out and became subjective as to who should be rewarded with care.

 

[friend of]

Simply because one was institutionalized and ritualized while the other was an everyday way of life in human interaction complete with hands on loving of all as self. Man was commanded to do so while God did His thing in restoring order. The institution built an empire forgiving sins while the movement of loving all as self died out and became subjective as to who should be rewarded with care.

It sounds like you're describing a false promotion of Christianity. All true promotions of Christianity are about the gospel

 

[timothyu]

All true promotions of Christianity are about the gospel

Yes, His will being done, not ours. The Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

To the contrary, bringing others to Christ is the crux of furthering the Kingdom.

So that's all there is to it. Once you "get saved", there is nothing more to be done to further the interests of the Kingdom. No need to be concerned with developing your faith, training in righteousness, steering clear of sin, etc. Because all that matters is that people "get saved". Are you sure about that?

 

[Benjamin Müller]

For a background in my beliefs, you'll have to look up Armstrongism. Both my grandfathers listened to Armstrong and my parents met in the World Wide Church of God. I call myself a 'Wilderness Baby' because I was born out of season: Armstrong had already been dead six years by time I was born. My parents have remained independent after World Wide fell apart under Tkach and were jaded by UCG. Anyway:


Reading through the comments I think part of the problem is that most of Christianity actually preaches the wrong gospel. It is the gospel of the coming kingdom of God. Yet, all I ever hear from American Christian groups is Jesus and Salvation or Heaven.


The idea of salvation and grace only, I have likened to spiritual welfare. Christ keeps everything for them and they have to do nothing, they don't have to 'work' because 'work' is bad. So they take on the spiritual subsidized housing and spiritual food stamps, without applying themselves to good works, except maybe around Christmas, when they feel fluffy.

Now, I don't believe Armstrong had everything right, but I think as far as the 'tree trunk truths'; he was sound. He was the early rain, as God says, I rose prophets early to warn you. Armstrong during his day was a fringe sect of Christianity and a 'kooky old man', yet what he preached: the coming kingdom of God and keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days has trickled through society. Matthew 24 says 'and this gospel shall be preached into all the world as a witness unto all nations and then the end shall come".

Armstrong met with so many world leaders to discuss several points:

1.) Christ, at the crucifixion, being obedient unto death was now qualified to be king and high priest. And when he preached to the spirits in prison (demons); he was showing that God raised him from the dead; he was triumphant over them; and his rulership and kingdom were now sure.

2.) Christ IS returning. He will return before man annihilates himself, and he will set up His father's kingdom. All kingdoms will become Christ.

3.) Since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, we should be obedient to the laws past because when Christ sets up the Kingdom, which we will be subject to, we will be under those same laws.

4.) The present is a grace period in which we are given time to overcome the world, become obedient to Christ, and choose His way of government.

5.) The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. Christ is going to rule the world; what does any nation do to someone who commits High Treason? They get the death penalty. So our obedience should be to Christ and to the government and to the laws, otherwise, you are a treasonist.


The gospel is a government-focused message, which shows that Christ is King and High Priest, and we are subject to his kingdom. Every government, every kingdom has laws, and the disobedient are put to death. The church Armstorng founced focused on obedience to Christ unto salvation, not merely believing on Christ and going about ones day with a background notion of acknowledgement that He exists.

Faith without works is dead. If you love me, keep the commandments.

Churches just teach believe that he is and once saved always saved, but God says, he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Obedience to Christ, through the Holy Spirit, is what saves. (Because the Holy Spirit will led you into all truth, and it will make you yearn for God and yearn to obey out of love for Him.)

We do need to talk about salvation and grace, because the pride of man will say, hey I'm not so bad, I can save myself: but you cannot save yourself. You have to have the Holy Spirit. And God only gives that spirit to those who obey. (Acts 5:32)

 

[Benjamin Müller]

It all goes down to this - saving our souls. The bait of converting people to Christianity.

I wanted to critique this, but made my initial post first.

I think this is an unfair statement. Before people can receive the Holy Spirit they need to come to understand they need a higher power in their lives or they will physically and spiritually die. I wouldn't call this bait; I would call it revelation. Everyone has to, at some point, recognize, they must submit to a higher power. And those who preach Christ, are preaching the initial call to repentance.

Repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit.

They have to accept that the God of Israel is God and there is no other and agree to put no other gods before Him. Salvation doctrine is the gateway to repentance.

But I don't think this isn't what Christians should be going crazy about. They quickly jump into action out of extreme fear their loved ones might go to hell tomorrow if they die or they go to hell or lose their heavenly mansions if they die without leading a single soul to Christ.

Didn't know people felt this way. I was always taught 'No one can come to me unless the father draws Him'. We are to give the message, conversion is up to God. How can anyone come to Christ if they have not heard?

And if they have no truth, doesn't it make them a false teacher, spreading false teachings and not even knowing it.

Yup.

Because both the desire of keeping ourselves alive or the senseless fear of losing our lives, including forfeiting eternal salvation can blind us to the truth. This senseless fear, the lack of courage, cowardice, will make us open to false teachings.

Agree, and for that cause many will take the Mark of the Beast, which is a spiritual mark, not physical. They cave to false doctrine, which causes them to lose their reward. I don't want to be dogmatic and say they will lose their salvation, because God is only calling a few now. The will get a chance for salvation during the millennium and in the 2nd resurrection. Now is not the only day for salvation.

Does anyone realize how very corruptible even the most devout Christian if their lives and the lives of loved ones are threatened? That we are prepared to accept any solution without checking or testing it as long as it saves us from death?

Yup. Control the food, control the people. People will deny Christ to save their lives or the lives of others. Anyone who loves father or mother, son or daughter, house or lands more than Christ, cannot be his disciple.

I think this is what Christianity has become. Too afraid to look back to see what we have missed too paralyzed by fear to even check if the path is leading to a cliff. Or too blinded by the reward of eternal life, it has become a false god.

I would say it's three things: 1.) God is not calling everyone now. From Adam to the end it looks like only 144,000 will be the elect. These are the first fruits of God. Later, God will have a harvest of all souls unto salvation. But He is not trying to convert the whole world right now.

2.) Family tradition keeps people in religious circles

3.) Peer pressure to keep people from leaving to find the truth. This pressure is actually demonic and unfortunately people don't know that because there are ministers of Satan who transform themselves into angels of light.

I fear we are still no different from the Pharisees. They try to gain salvation with works while we try to gain salvation by accepting God's Grace. They're both salvation-centric delusions. No care for the truth. Which is the irony because if you have no truth, you have no salvation as well.

Funny how Satan has separated both Jews and Christians from God. Faith without works is dead. You need both. But modern Christianity only focuses on faith and Jews focus on works, and neither one alone can save. You need both! Man I can't emphasize that enough.

If they have accepted this *precious* *free* gift, then why can't they freely help a brother or sister in need? They might if it's only convenient or if they may get something in return.

Because the truth is that not many Christians are truly converted Christians. We hope we are, but only God knows whose are His. BUT, as I said, now is not the only day of salvation. People need to know Christ, because when God does decide to convert them and write His laws on their hearts, they will already have Christ as their cornerstone. They just have to come to understand true doctrine at that point.

Obviously. Like what's the point of all these if nobody gets saved in the end?

Everyone gets saved. God has a salvation plan, which His Holy Days symbolize. There is hope for everyone.

The problem I mention is that many Christian are unable to see beyond the salvation message. They are stuck there and unable to move beyond it.

God has decided to keep much of the world blind now. I believe the reason is because if He gave His Holy Spirit to everyone, if they turn away from Him, they cannot be renewed to repentance. They have committed the unpardonable sin. God wants all the world to be saved, and that might mean keeping them ignorant and in blindness until Satan has been put away.

Satan wants to destroy man, and God knows that He would and could succeed, so He is withholding His Spirit until Christ crushes the serpent once and for all and he is ashes beneath our feet. Otherwise, much of the world would lose their salvation. God is blinding people in mercy, and because He has willingly blinded them, in the judgment they will be told the truth and have a span of what looks like 100 years to choose God or jump into the lake of fire. But if they choose death, it is their decision.

If you have no truth then you will not be set free (from being slave to this world and to Satan).

Agreed.

Yes Jesus said, those who repent will be saved but those who seek to save their lives will lose it (salvation). It may sound confusing but it should become obvious what it means - don't let the rewards become your obsessions or else it becomes your god and you cannot be saved if you practice idolatry. You simply can't see / know the truth as an idolater.

I'd have to think more on this. I don't know if I would call salvation doctrine an idol. It's just lack of understanding. If someone isn't called, then can you even say they are worshiping the true God anyway? An idol is different than false doctrine.

So why Jesus today have more admirers than haters? Is it because we have re-shaped His gospel to the pattern of this world?

Yup. Many are worshiping a False Jesus.

Satan wanted to be like God, and I believe, he wanted to be in place of Christ. I think there are many who are worshiping Satan, not the true Christ. Satan wanted to be 'like' or the 'image' of God. Satan is hip on idolatry. Go to Christian Churches and how many images of Jesus are in there? When Christ said, no man can look upon me lest he die. But people have an image of Jesus in their minds.

Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. Yet Satan wants to be the image of God and plasters the face of God--or a god--everywhere. Satan, tempting Christ in the wilderness said he would give him the kingdoms of the world, if Christ worshiped Satan. Satan wanted to be elevated above Christ, though he would have allowed Christ to still rule in a Satanic kingdom, which is an interesting thing. So Satan allows Christ's name, but puts an image over Christ. And of course the modern Christian holidays are steeped in paganism and not biblical.

Is it because the "modern gospel" is no longer about Christ but about rewards, about salvation. The salvation of man being the center of it all.

I wasn't brought up in modern Christianity, so I'm not familiar with their preaching or behavior, so I'm not sure about the salvation part but I would definitely agree with the rewards part. I don't even know if it's really about salvation: yes they preach once saved always saved, but it seems from my limited experience, it's more about rewards and spiritual welfare. Believe in Christ, and you get manna and riches, but don't do works!! Works are bad. Even though, it says we were made for Good Works, but you know. . . . Christ keeps everything for us and you're free now from that "horrible law" . . . . But yeah, salvation doctrine is probably part of it. I haven't experienced the same preaching you have, but you're probably on to something.

This the only reason why multitudes of crowd followed Jesus. It's all about rewards. "What can you do for me". "How do you benefit me, my soul". But not caring for the truth at all so when Jesus started speaking about the truth, most of them no longer followed Jesus (John 6:66). And you know the rest of the story. Eventually they voted to have Him killed. Should Jesus walk our streets today unannounced and started preaching, I'd bet only few will recognize Him, let alone, stay and listen to the rest of what He has to say

Which is why I do think it's more about rewards and spiritual welfare, which I guess encompasses salvation because what good is rewards if you don't have eternal life to wallow in it, but seems like the eternal life part is on the back-burner? And the rewards are central. But again my experience is limited compared to yours.

 

[timothyu]

It is the gospel of the coming kingdom of God.

Exactly

 

[friend of]

So that's all there is to it. Once you "get saved", there is nothing more to be done to further the interests of the Kingdom. No need to be concerned with developing your faith, training in righteousness, steering clear of sin, etc. Because all that matters is that people "get saved". Are you sure about that?

None of that can be done without people being in the kingdom in the first place

 

[ZephBonkerer]

None of that can be done without people being in the kingdom in the first place

So people come into the Kingdom. Then what? Do the new recruits serve any purpose other than to bring in more recruits?

 

[friend of]

So people come into the Kingdom. Then what? Do the new recruits serve any purpose other than to bring in more recruits?

I'm not saying the other stuff you mentioned isn't important. It is. I'm just saying that bringing others into the faith is pretty important

 

[timothyu]

I'm just saying that bringing others into the faith is pretty important

In Jesus' day it was important enough not just to introduce it but to build their entire lifestyle around it. They lived and breathed the ways of the Kingdom over the traditional ways of mankind. Since those times man has seemed to find ways to create a religion that unfortunately allows us to have it both ways.

 

[RileyG]

Christians are called to live in the here and now- and love God above all else and love our neighbors as ourself. So no, we are NOT a cult. Heaven is just union with God which is beyond description.