I am not aware of anything by the Church that makes this claim. Faith is not independent of reality.
I was clear in my OP that was a statement made by a Catholic. I didn't claim to have been fresh off a phone call with the Pope.
Like most arguments against Catholicism, it argues against their own misunderstanding of Catholicism, not what the Church actually teaches.
Condoms are not a problem because they prevent a life. Abstaining from sex prevents life, but that is not a sin. You really ought to understanding the Church's position before criticizing it.
"isn't open to conception blah blah blah. Same difference. Just like the hypocracy of the NFP teaching being A-OK.
I know what is taught. I just don't cover up the reality of it with weasel-speak.
on a more individual level, a couple who it was deadly to the wife to conceive, but when he sterilized himself so they could enjoy at least a mostly normal marriage, excommunication was the result.
I note that you ignored this entirely. an uncomfortable example, perhaps?
Again, you don't understand the Catholic position and yet you attack it. The Church does not believe that there is a moral codes that pertains only to Catholics. Whatever the Church teaches should be believed and practiced by all mankind. However, all people should have the freedom to make their own decisions, but that doesn't change the fact that using a condom is wrong, regardless of whether one is Catholic or not.
again, it was a statement made by a Catholic. perhaps your teachers should do a better job.
This is a common misconception- that there are times when abortion is the only answer.
In every pregnancy, there is a risk of death. Some are more risky than others. There are a few case where there is absolute certainty of death, but those cases the Church allow procedures to save the mother's life.
interesting. So there IS situational morality. Yet we're told there is not.
(and also interesting that an abortion to save a mothers life is acceptable, but a condom, which could protect the same person from being in that position in the first place, is not. this lacks in common sense completely.)
Condoms objectify human beings, which was the cause of the HIV epidemic in the first place.
that's some finely backed horse apples.
Do you see the bible as a guide? That you half-hearted look to, except when it contradicts your morality?
yes, I see the bible as a guide.
I didn't see anywhere written in it's pages that you have to check your brain at the door though. I think God expects us to think things through.
if Jesus was intent on us following rules for rules sake, then he should have had the adultress stoned. He did not.
The Church is not a guide, it a means of preserving the truth for all generations until Christ returns.
that again, was in response to a statement made by a Catholic.
Yes, the Church considers such contraception sinful and thus could be quite detrimental to the soul.
indeed. Just like eating meat on a Friday. oh wait... that's ok now.
but nothing changes.....
You don't seem to even know what infallible dogma is.
sure I do. the claim is, it's always been believed and taught, and it's proclaimed ex cathedra, therefore it's infallible. It cannot change. It is immutable.
it's a really bad idea, of course, you can't even backpedal when you look foolish.... but there you have it. Don't try and play the "you just don't understand it" card. We're not idiots, we just don't believe it.
This is the problem with most protestant morality- it is based on rules and commands.
[/quote} my irony meter just blew up.
Protestant morality is based on the idea that God gives laws and we should obey them. The morality of the action depends on whether or not it violates what God commands. Protestants turn to scripture and look for what is commanded of them, and then finding rules and exceptions in order to create gray areas.
Protestants can usually answer what God forbids and allows, but they can't answer why. This is because the protestant reformers believed that trying to understand the will of God is an attack on His sovereignty. Catholics believed that God created things in a natural order. That by understand this order, we can understand the morality of an action. The Reformers said that this would bond God to His own created order.
For example, we all know that adultery is wrong. But could God make adultery right tomorrow? Is adultery wrong because God says so, or does God say so because adultery is wrong?
so then, God is subject to his own laws and statues... that's interesting.
For Catholics, adultery will always be wrong because it goes against the natural order. It is a violation of the way humanity was designed- Genesis shows that man was created to marry a woman and become one flesh. Thus, adultery has nothing to do with rules. It isn't wrong because the Church or God merely says so. It is a violation of our humanity, people are not created for that. By violating our nature, we only cause more problems.
The same exists for condoms. Condoms aren't wrong because the Church made a rule. The Church condemns using condemns because it violates our human nature and puts a barrier between a couple. Couples were meant to give themselves entirely in marriage and in the sexual act. To use a condom would be keeping part of oneself from their spouse- their fertility. Marriage is about total self giving, it is practice that prepares us for Heaven where we totally give ourselves to God fully. How can we prepare to give ourselves to our spouse, Christ in Heaven when we don't give ourselves fully to our spouse on Earth?
you don't get it, do you?
that is RULE BASED. you pretend it's some question of natural order, but over the last two years, killing my wife by getting her pregnant would have been a real bad "natural order" don't you think?
it boggles the mind. It's almost like people don't THINK. on the one hand, they say it's the natural order, so condom use is sinful, but then would say that abstinence would be the only way to protect my wife from a potentially fatal pregnancy.... and THAT doesn't violate the natural order?
give you head a shake.
That would involve being open to fertility. If you aren't giving all of yourself to your spouse, then it isn't fully unitive. You can't have an honest relationship with secrets.
it's no secret, when both parties are part of the decision. That's a silly statement.
