Are we or Are We Not...

[SassySDA]

God's Remnant Church

 

[Cliff2]

God's Remnant Church

We need to look at what God has said his end time followers will be and do.

God says, not man says that his followers will keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev. 12:17

17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev. 14:12

12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Rev. 19:10

10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

How can anyone argue that God's remnant church will not keep His commandments.

The "Spirit of Prophecy" is another big question that we need to understand properly.

 

[StormyOne]

By this will all men know that you are my disciples that you love one another.....

Though I am able to speak with the language of angels, and understand prophecy, and keep the sabbath but don't have love, I am a sounding brass or clanging gong....

Sorry, God is love and his people are people who love.... we cannot keep anything, it is Christ in us... the hope of glory....

If we want to call ourselve the remnant then why not be the remnant who loves mercy, and deals fairly with others and walks humbly with God...

Being the remnant is NOT a status, it is function...So we can be a part of the remnant.... but we cannot by any stretch call ourselves the remnant... Only God knows exactly who comprises the remnant.... to suggest otherwise is either arrogant or foolish....

 

[Cliff2]

By this will all men know that you are my disciples that you love one another.....

Though I am able to speak with the language of angels, and understand prophecy, and keep the sabbath but don't have love, I am a sounding brass or clanging gong....

Sorry, God is love and his people are people who love.... we cannot keep anything, it is Christ in us... the hope of glory....

If we want to call ourselve the remnant then why not be the remnant who loves mercy, and deals fairly with others and walks humbly with God...

Being the remnant is NOT a status, it is function...So we can be a part of the remnant.... but we cannot by any stretch call ourselves the remnant... Only God knows exactly who comprises the remnant.... to suggest otherwise is either arrogant or foolish....

No problems at all from me to proclaim God's promises with love.

But why not go one step futher and proclaim what God says in Revelation with all the love that we have.

Rev. 12:17

17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev. 14:12

12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Rev. 19:10

10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

I do not see why we want to down play the aspects of our message of the three angels as stated in chapter 14 much as we do.

EGW makes the claim that the three angels message of Rev 14 is righteousness by faith.

 

[StormyOne]

The 3 angels proclaim their own message... that's what the bible says... there is no scriptural support for people proclaiming the 3 angels message...

I understand what you are saying though Cliff... and I understand your question Sassy.... I have stated my position as I understand it....

 

[Cliff2]

The 3 angels proclaim their own message... that's what the bible says... there is no scriptural support for people proclaiming the 3 angels message...

I understand what you are saying though Cliff... and I understand your question Sassy.... I have stated my position as I understand it....

The angels here are only delivering a message.

It is up to us to make sure that the message is delivered.

God uses many and different means to get that message around the world.

I believe that 3ABN is a means of taking the message to places where we as humans can neevr go.

An angel is a messanger.

 

[Windmill]

Last time I said we are the remnant church, I got screamed at and told I was a disgrace to all adventists around the globe and that I'm in the "minority"

But I still think we are the remnant church. Status? Naw. Job? Yes. Duty? Yes.

 

[TrustAndObey]

To say we belong to the Remnant church in no way makes the statement that Adventists are the only ones that will go to heaven. People misunderstand that Windmill, and they don't stop to consider what it actually means, so they attack. The last time I checked, attacking isn't one of the fruits of the Spirit.

Scripture tells us that the wicked will surround and try to attack the new Jerusalem. That's what happens when people feel like or know they are on the "outside" of a good thing. Instead of self-reflection, they attack against and even somehow blame those that are living/lived according to God's will.

The Remnant church of Bible prophecy is a church (body of believers) that keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus Christ (the Spirit of Prophecy). You don't have to be in a particular building to be a part of the Remnant. However, one's doctrine must hold firm in the belief that Christians must obey God.

Jesus told us that we must do the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus got taunted for it, and we are no different.

Sweetie, remain faithful, do not worry about what others say to you, and keep your chin up. Matthew 5:11 - Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

You may not feel blessed right now, but you will! Just remember to also bless them that persecute you (Romans 12:14)! I know it's not something you necessarily FEEL like doing when someone is cutting you down, but Christ promised the faithful would be persecuted and we're starting to see it all the time.

It hurts me that someone would say those things to you because not only do I think you are a wonderful example for young people, but I also KNOW you are not a disgrace to anyone!

God bless sweetie and hang in there!!!

 

[Cliff2]

Last time I said we are the remnant church, I got screamed at and told I was a disgrace to all adventists around the globe and that I'm in the "minority"

But I still think we are the remnant church. Status? Naw. Job? Yes. Duty? Yes.

I am not going to yell at you for saying that you belong to God's remnant Church.

If others do not want to say they belong to God's remnant Church then as far as I am concerned I will let them think what they like.

In the book of Revelation it says that God has a remnant that keep His commandments.

You keep standing up for what you believe. I think you are on the right track.

We know that no matter what we say it is God that knows the heart and knows us better than anyone.

Sabbath keeping or any of the other commandments in and of themselves will never save and has never saved anyone.

Eph. 2:8,9 tells us how we get salvation. It is a gift, but when we receive the gift we want to follow the Lamb where ever the Lamb goes.

That Lamb is Jesus Christ, the perfect sacrifice that died for everyone.

Being part of the remnant does not mean we think we are better than anyone or that we have a foot in the door.

At the foot of the cross evryone is equal, the ground is level.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Amen Cliff!

Windmill, here is one of my favorite parables. I think it has a great life lesson for everyone in it!

Luke 18: 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Matthew 18:4 - Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

James 4:10 - Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

1 Peter 5:5 - Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

1 Peter 5:6 - Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

You will be lifted up one day Windmill!!! These people that have said harsh things to you are no match for Him!

 

[StormyOne]

The angels here are only delivering a message.

It is up to us to make sure that the message is delivered.

God uses many and different means to get that message around the world.

I believe that 3ABN is a means of taking the message to places where we as humans can neevr go.

An angel is a messanger.

The bible does not say that they angel need help, the bible tells me that those angels are proclaiming their message. However you present a problem. If those first 3 angels in Rev 14 need human help, why don't the last 3 angels in that same chapter need human help? How do we decide when human help is required and when it isn't?

Additionally, we find many examples throughout the bible where God has used angels to do His bidding.... they have not needed human help... So it is NOT up to us.... in spite of what we have been taught...

 

[2tim]

Hi all. Good topic. Here's some more light on the subject.

God has a church on earth who are lifting up the downtrodden law, and presenting to the world the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. . . . There is but one church in the world who are at the present time standing in the breach and making up the hedge, building up the old waste places. . . . Let all be careful not to make an outcry against the only people who are fulfilling the description given of the remnant people, who keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus. . . . God has a distinct people, a church on earth, second to none, but superior to all in their facilities to teach the truth, to vindicate the law of God. . . . My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong.--TM 50, 58, 59 (1893). [THE BOOK OF REVELATION FOCUSES ON TWO SETS OF GOD'S PEOPLE--THE VISIBLE REMNANT (12:17) AND "MY PEOPLE" IN BABYLON (18:4). THIS CHAPTER DEALS WITH THE FORMER, AND CHAPTER 14, "THE LOUD CRY," DEALS WITH THE LATTER.] {LDE 43.3} (emphasis hers)

Hope this helps. Helped me. 2Tim

 

[tall73]

Good point Tim2 that the remnant is visible and invisible, in the church and those of God in other places.

One question however, I realize they don't have the sanctuary message, etc. but wouldn't Seventh-day Baptists, and Seventh-day Church of God etc. qualify as also keeping God's law and having the faith of Jesus?

 

[2tim]

Good point Tim2 that the remnant is visible and invisible, in the church and those of God in other places.

One question however, I realize they don't have the sanctuary message, etc. but wouldn't Seventh-day Baptists, and Seventh-day Church of God etc. qualify as also keeping God's law and having the faith of Jesus?

It's a good question.

It is the spirit of Jesus that is an identifying mark of the remnant church. According to the Word (as I'm sure you know already) the spirit of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. To the best of my knowledge, there is only one movement that qualifies in both regards.

2Tim

 

[StormyOne]

It's a good question.

It is the spirit of Jesus that is an identifying mark of the remnant church. According to the Word (as I'm sure you know already) the spirit of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. To the best of my knowledge, there is only one movement that qualifies in both regards.

2Tim

The spirit of prophecy is the Holy Spirit.... though we want to equate the spirit of prophecy with the gift of prophecy... but I digress...

 

[PaleHorse]

The spirit of prophecy is the Holy Spirit.... though we want to equate the spirit of prophecy with the gift of prophecy... but I digress...

There's little "wanting" involved:
Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Unless you can show me from scripture that the spirit of prophecy is not the gift of prophecy then this is my stance.

And now for a direct answer to the OP:
Yes, I do think the Seventh-day Adventist church is among the remnant and is the most visible part of it. If I thought otherwise I wouldn't be a member of it. If someone doesn't think their denomination is at least part of the remnant then I'd have to ask them why they are in their denomination - for that would be most certainly a stupid choice.

 

[smooze]

We all have to be careful . The Jews decided they had all the answers but crucifyed the 1 son /Jesus Christ. I for 1 have denounced organized religion. I believe in Christ and thats good enough for me GOD bless everyone

 

[2tim]

The spirit of prophecy is the Holy Spirit.... though we want to equate the spirit of prophecy with the gift of prophecy... but I digress...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here too, Stormy. Now, before we get mired in a debate about where prophecies come from and how they are communicated - let me say that yes, the Holy Spirit is surely involved.

However, the spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit. If He were, the text quoted several posts above would make little sense. "The testimony of Jesus is the Holy Spirit?" Clearly not. It is prophecy that testifies of Jesus to God's end times church .

I agree with Palehorse in every point on this matter. And especially his question about what sort of church folks are in. I often ask our evangelical breatheren who question this claim - "Aren't you in God's remnant church in these end times? And if not, why not?"

I also agree with Sophia. The Bible tells us there will be prophets right up to the end. Not all of them will live 50 feet away from me, as ours did when I was in Topsham, but they will be among us.

Write back soon,
2Tim

 

[StormyOne]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here too, Stormy. Now, before we get mired in a debate about where prophecies come from and how they are communicated - let me say that yes, the Holy Spirit is surely involved.

However, the spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit. If He were, the text quoted several posts above would make little sense. "The testimony of Jesus is the Holy Spirit?" Clearly not. It is prophecy that testifies of Jesus to God's end times church .

I agree with Palehorse in every point on this matter. And especially his question about what sort of church folks are in. I often ask our evangelical breatheren who question this claim - "Aren't you in God's remnant church in these end times? And if not, why not?"

I also agree with Sophia. The Bible tells us there will be prophets right up to the end. Not all of them will live 50 feet away from me, as ours did when I was in Topsham, but they will be among us.

Write back soon,
2Tim

That's okay, we will disagree on what "the spirit of prophecy" is, I know why as adventists we have embraced the view, but it is myopic and self-serving IMO... I have stated my position before, which is not the traditional position, so it's back to lurk mode....

 

[SassySDA]

By this will all men know that you are my disciples that you love one another.....

Though I am able to speak with the language of angels, and understand prophecy, and keep the sabbath but don't have love, I am a sounding brass or clanging gong....

Sorry, God is love and his people are people who love.... we cannot keep anything, it is Christ in us... the hope of glory....

If we want to call ourselve the remnant then why not be the remnant who loves mercy, and deals fairly with others and walks humbly with God...

Being the remnant is NOT a status, it is function...So we can be a part of the remnant.... but we cannot by any stretch call ourselves the remnant... Only God knows exactly who comprises the remnant.... to suggest otherwise is either arrogant or foolish....

Ok, first of all, I think you misunderstood what I meant by my question. You are taking it as if I meant are we God's TRUE AND ONLY remnant church. That's not what I meant. I simply ask, are we or are we not God's remnant church? There are many, I ask if we are one.

I ask a sincere question here, brother Stormy...so please bear that in mind with your response, and try not to add anything to my question that isn't there...

Other than the fact that we know there are two separate conferences for the Seventh-day Adventist Church...what would make you ask, "then why not be the remnant who loves mercy and deals fairly with others and walks humbly with God"

This description..loving mercy and dealing fairly with others, while walking in humility with God, is what I see in my church every day. I can't believe that mine is the only one I would see these characteristics in.

Do you really think that we have that much arrogancy in our church? You have every right to tell me that I am "misunderstanding" what you typed, but I don't think so. It comes across that we may think we are "better" than everyone else, that we think we are the ONE AND ONLY remnant church, and that we are not humbled...even before God.

Also, could you give me a list, no matter how small or large it might end up being, of things about our church that you DO agree with? I'm truly trying to get a feeling of exactly where you are coming from...where your belief system and the Seventh-day Adventist church meld. It's only through understanding, and I can only understand through knowledge gained, that we can come together as one church...which I would LOVE to see happen here.