Are we or Are We Not...

[StormyOne]

Sassy,
Yes SOME of us are arrogant, and believe that we are better than other churches... while it is not preached now there was a time when it was preached that everyone who was going to be saved in the end would have to become sda... SOME of use believe that we are the only true church and IF people want to do what God says they better belong to the church... that is what some believe...

As far as providing to you a list of those things I agree with as taught by the church to better understand me, thank you for the request, but that's okay I'll pass... understanding of a person comes via relationship with that person....

As the saying goes, "Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway." Elbert Hubbard

 

[TrustAndObey]

Stormy, I don't think Sassy meant offense by her question about a list. I have to say, too, that I have never seen you say one NICE thing about the Adventist church.

If you don't want to make a list that's cool. I think most of us that have gotten to know you know that your biggest complaint is segregation.

So maybe you could tell us what YOU are doing to put an end to the problem so we could follow suit. Could you maybe lead us by example?

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, I don't think Sassy meant offense by her question about a list. I have to say, too, that I have never seen you say one NICE thing about the Adventist church.

If you don't want to make a list that's cool. I think most of us that have gotten to know you know that your biggest complaint is segregation.

So maybe you could tell us what YOU are doing to put an end to the problem so we could follow suit. Could you maybe lead us by example?

As the saying goes, "Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway." Elbert Hubbard

Genuine unity will come via Christ... He is the only way.... that was Paul's message to the Ephesians..

(I was not offended by Sassy's inquiry....)

 

[TrustAndObey]

As the saying goes, "Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway." Elbert Hubbard

Book, chapter, verse? I'm just kidding.

Genuine unity will come via Christ... He is the only way.... that was Paul's message to the Ephesians..

(I was not offended by Sassy's inquiry....)

Okay, so are you not doing anything to try to end segregation or are you just not willing to share?

 

[StormyOne]

Book, chapter, verse? I'm just kidding.



Okay, so are you not doing anything to try to end segregation or are you just not willing to share?

Eph 4:1-7 I, a prisoner in the Lord, encourage you to live the kind of life which proves that God has called you. (2) Be humble and gentle in every way. Be patient with each other and lovingly accept each other. (3) Through the peace that ties you together, do your best to maintain the unity that the Spirit gives. (4) There is one body and one Spirit. In the same way you were called to share one hope. (5) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) one God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything. (7) God's favor has been given to each of us. It was measured out to us by Christ who gave it.

John 17:20-23 "I'm not praying only for them. I'm also praying for those who will believe in me through their message. (21) I pray that all of these people continue to have unity in the way that you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they may be united with us so that the world will believe that you have sent me. (22) I have given them the glory that you gave me. I did this so that they are united in the same way we are. (23) I am in them, and you are in me. So they are completely united. In this way the world knows that you have sent me and that you have loved them in the same way you have loved me.

1Co 1:10-15 Brothers and sisters, I encourage all of you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to agree with each other and not to split into opposing groups. I want you to be united in your understanding and opinions. (11) Brothers and sisters, some people from Chloe's family have made it clear to me that you are quarreling among yourselves. (12) This is what I mean: Each of you is saying, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ." (13) Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in Paul's name? (14) I thank God that I didn't baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius (15) so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.

1Co 3:1-4 Brothers and sisters, I couldn't talk to you as spiritual people but as people still influenced by your corrupt nature. You were infants in your faith in Christ. (2) I gave you milk to drink. I didn't give you solid food because you weren't ready for it. Even now you aren't ready for it (3) because you're still influenced by your corrupt nature. When you are jealous and quarrel among yourselves, aren't you influenced by your corrupt nature and living by human standards? (4) When some of you say, "I follow Paul" and others say, "I follow Apollos," aren't you acting like sinful humans?

What do these texts tell us? Unity is gift, a fruit of the spirit. It is evidence that the spirit is working in the life of the believer.... divisions are a result of the believer living by human standards...

What is it that one believer can do to help another believer accept the Spirit into their lives and consequently allow His Spirit to transform them?

Genuine unity only occurs through Christ...

 

[SassySDA]

Sassy,
Yes SOME of us are arrogant, and believe that we are better than other churches... while it is not preached now there was a time when it was preached that everyone who was going to be saved in the end would have to become sda... SOME of use believe that we are the only true church and IF people want to do what God says they better belong to the church... that is what some believe...

As far as providing to you a list of those things I agree with as taught by the church to better understand me, thank you for the request, but that's okay I'll pass... understanding of a person comes via relationship with that person....

As the saying goes, "Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway." Elbert Hubbard

I sincerely meant no offense. However, having a relationship with you isn't going to help me understand exactly where you stand as far as agreement with or disagreement with Seventh-day Adventist doctrine.

I asked because I haven't seen you agree with any of it, so I'm looking for a starting point, I guess, for lack of better wording.

But that's ok, I asked nicely, and you responded nicely.

It's all good...as the kids say.

 

[2tim]

That's okay, we will disagree on what "the spirit of prophecy" is, I know why as adventists we have embraced the view, but it is myopic and self-serving IMO... I have stated my position before, which is not the traditional position, so it's back to lurk mode....

Sounds good to me. May I ask you this, do belive that Ellen White was a prophet? This is what she said on the topic...

The law of God and the Spirit of Prophecy go hand in hand to guide and counsel the church, and whenever the church has recognized this by obeying His law, the spirit of prophecy has been sent to guide her in the way of truth.
Rev. 12:17. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." This prophecy points out clearly that the remnant church will acknowledge God in His law and will have the prophetic gift. Obedience to the law of God, and the spirit of prophecy has always distinguished the true people of God, and the test is usually given on present manifestations.
In Jeremiah's day the people had no question about the message of Moses, Elijah, or Elisha, but they did question and put aside the message sent of God to Jeremiah until its force and power was wasted and there was no remedy but for God to carry them away into captivity. {Loma Linda Messages 33.6}

Your friend,
2Tim

 

[StormyOne]

Tim said,

Sounds good to me. May I ask you this, do belive that Ellen White was a prophet? This is what she said on the topic...

The law of God and the Spirit of Prophecy go hand in hand to guide and counsel the church, and whenever the church has recognized this by obeying His law, the spirit of prophecy has been sent to guide her in the way of truth.

I believe EGW had the gift of prophecy... and I believe she was wrong at times.... her interpretation of Rev 12:17 was narrow, but consistent with what the early adventists believed.... so while she had the gift, and used the gift, the gift did not make her free from error or infallible...

 

[TrustAndObey]

So Stormy, from what you posted, I'd have to say that you and I are both doing the same thing to end segregation, we are letting God handle it and just making sure racism does not live in OUR hearts.

Each individual has to make sure they aren't racist, that they love ALL of God's children, and Jesus will take care of the segregation! Amen.

 

[StormyOne]

I sincerely meant no offense. However, having a relationship with you isn't going to help me understand exactly where you stand as far as agreement with or disagreement with Seventh-day Adventist doctrine.

I asked because I haven't seen you agree with any of it, so I'm looking for a starting point, I guess, for lack of better wording.

But that's ok, I asked nicely, and you responded nicely.

It's all good...as the kids say.

I did not take offense.... a relationship may or may not help you to see how I agree or disagree with the adventist church, but a relationship will provide the atmosphere to exchange ideas or information without being judgmental or critical of the info exchanged....

1Pe 4:8 And most of all be warm in your love for one another; because in love there is forgiveness for sins without number:

 

[StormyOne]

So Stormy, from what you posted, I'd have to say that you and I are both doing the same thing to end segregation, we are letting God handle it and just making sure racism does not live in OUR hearts.

Each individual has to make sure they aren't racist, that they love ALL of God's children, and Jesus will take care of the segregation! Amen.

So then when the church deliberately chooses to segregate itself, and it's leaders choose not to address it but continue the practice for whatever reason, is it safe to say that they are not allowing God to take care the segregation? That they are not allowing His spirit to handle the division? Does the world believe what we say because we are one like Jesus prayed we would be? Has the church's living example been one where those looking might say that those christians live like God is in them?

 

[TrustAndObey]

So then when the church deliberately chooses to segregate itself, and it's leaders choose not to address it but continue the practice for whatever reason, is it safe to say that they are not allowing God to take care the segregation? That they are not allowing His spirit to handle the division? Does the world believe what we say because we are one like Jesus prayed we would be? Has the church's living example been one where those looking might say that those christians live like God is in them?

Stormy, what you have to realize is when you say the "church", you are talking about the whole...so yes, both black and white conferences are not allowing God to take care of segregation. BOTH sides.

I think it's ridiculous, but I don't hold it against the ADVENTIST FAITH/DOCTRINE. Each individual within those conferences needs to think about it themselves on a personal level.

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, what you have to realize is when you say the "church", you are talking about the whole...so yes, both black and white conferences are not allowing God to take care of segregation. BOTH sides.

I think it's ridiculous, but I don't hold it against the ADVENTIST FAITH/DOCTRINE. Each individual within those conferences needs to think about it themselves on a personal level.

I have not suggested that this practice is being perpetuated by one side more than the other side.... each group has a reason to hold on to the practice...

Perhaps what you don't see is the fact that because it is practiced, it is a part of adventist faith and doctrine... if the .org is practicing it when there are obvious reasons that it should be discontinued, then that practice has become a part of the church's doctrine or belief system... but that's just me...

 

[TrustAndObey]

I have not suggested that this practice is being perpetuated by one side more than the other side.... each group has a reason to hold on to the practice...

Perhaps what you don't see is the fact that because it is practiced, it is a part of adventist faith and doctrine... if the .org is practicing it when there are obvious reasons that it should be discontinued, then that practice has become a part of the church's doctrine or belief system... but that's just me...

Wait, I'm confused. Are we not all judged individually? Just because I'm an Adventist does not in any way bring judgment on me or my beliefs for other people within the Adventist faith (both black and white) to continue this separation.

In fact, it's not an issue where I live or in the Arkansas/Louisiana conference. Trust me, I've checked.

It's not an issue in my home, in my local church, or in my conference. I wouldn't have even known something like this was happening in Ohio if you hadn't told me.

So I think it is "just you" if you think you can be negative toward the Adventist faith about these divisions, when you yourself aren't doing anything to make it better. Those people have to deal with these issues individually, I totally agree....but God has to enter their hearts and let them see how ridiculous it is to segregate.

There are a lot of positive things about the Adventist church and I'm sorry but I refuse to wallow in the fact that some of our members need to grow up and let God in. That is in EVERY church across the land.

Sometimes you can't be Captain of the World and you can't change other. On the same line of reasoning you cannot punish people that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[remnantrob]

Personally I believe that "our" church will continue in this tread...not to it's demise, but to fulfill what I believe is prophesy. E.W. talked about a shaking in our church, and who knows...maybe this(the separation and other ambiguities) is a part of it. So I side with those who encourage the relationship aspect of our salvation because that truly will be our only hope.

 

[StormyOne]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we not all judged individually? Just because I'm an Adventist does not in any way bring judgment on me or my beliefs for other people within the Adventist faith (both black and white) to continue this separation.

In fact, it's not an issue where I live or in the Arkansas/Louisiana conference. Trust me, I've checked.

It's not an issue in my home, in my local church, or in my conference. I wouldn't have even known something like this was happening in Ohio if you hadn't told me.

So I think it is "just you" if you think you can be negative toward the Adventist faith about these divisions, when you yourself aren't doing anything to make it better. Those people have to deal with these issues individually, I totally agree....but God has to enter their hearts and let them see how ridiculous it is to segregate.

There are a lot of positive things about the Adventist church and I'm sorry but I refuse to wallow in the fact that some of our members need to grow up and let God in. That is in EVERY church across the land.

Sometimes you can't be Captain of the World and you can't change other. On the same line of reasoning you cannot punish people that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Then you have missed the point... it is a problem in your area... you belong to the Arkansas/Louisana Conference... The regional Conference that overlaps that area is called Southwest Region Conference.... ever hear of them? So there exists right in your neck of the woods separate organizational structures for the same church.....

Here is the website...

http://www.tagnet.org/swrc/general.htm

As for your other comments.... thank you for sharing....I am not being negative.... I am stating the truth... again I challenge you, prove me wrong....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Then you have missed the point... it is a problem in your area... you belong to the Arkansas/Louisana Conference... The regional Conference that overlaps that area is called Southwest Region Conference.... ever hear of them? So there exists right in your neck of the woods separate organizational structures for the same church.....

Here is the website...

http://www.tagnet.org/swrc/general.htm

As for your other comments.... thank you for sharing....I am not being negative.... I am stating the truth... again I challenge you, prove me wrong....

You're the one that told me I would meet opposition from BOTH sides if I tried to annul the segregation...and you've already stated you're sitting back and letting God handle it, so I guess I'll do the same. Seems like a lose/lose situation honestly.

Prove you wrong that you're being negative? Sheesh. Hmmm. Well, have you ever told any Traditional Adventist that you love them? Have you ever tried to build up someone's self-confidence just to show love on this site?

I don't know, it's impossible to prove to you that you're negative since you obviously can't see it.

I do love you Stormy and all hard feelings are completely gone and I mean that. I just think you are a very unhappy person for whatever reason and if there is anything I can do to help you brother, I will. I don't have a lot of money or resources but I have a GREAT shoulder and you are welcome to lean on it any time!

God bless,
~Lainie

 

[StormyOne]

You're the one that told me I would meet opposition from BOTH sides if I tried to annul the segregation...and you've already stated you're sitting back and letting God handle it, so I guess I'll do the same. Seems like a lose/lose situation honestly.

Prove you wrong that you're being negative? Sheesh. Hmmm. Well, have you ever told any Traditional Adventist that you love them? Have you ever tried to build up someone's self-confidence just to show love on this site?

I don't know, it's impossible to prove to you that you're negative since you obviously can't see it.

I do love you Stormy and all hard feelings are completely gone and I mean that. I just think you are a very unhappy person for whatever reason and if there is anything I can do to help you brother, I will. I don't have a lot of money or resources but I have a GREAT shoulder and you are welcome to lean on it any time!

God bless,
~Lainie

Again you have made it about me. You said there is no problem in your area. I just gave you the info about your area, the black regional conference's name and website... it is a problem even where you are.... Yet you continue to suggest I am unhappy when I point out the obvious....

As for your other comments, as I have repeatedly said... you don't know me... thank you though for sharing....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Again you have made it about me. You said there is no problem in your area. I just gave you the info about your area, the black regional conference's name and website... it is a problem even where you are.... Yet you continue to suggest I am unhappy when I point out the obvious....

As for your other comments, as I have repeatedly said... you don't know me... thank you though for sharing....

You make it impossible to know you Stormy. You have said yourself in another thread that you can't put your beliefs "in writing", or maybe you said "in words". Well, if you can't share them, we can't know them. None of us are mind readers. It's very tough to see past the negativity anyway.

I have bookmarked the site you gave me Stormy and I'll check into it.

I don't think segregation is the reason you're unhappy with the Adventist church though.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I wish that you would talk to me brother Stormy.