Are we on our way to the GWT?

[jeffweeder]

What an amazing event this will be.
Who do you think will be there?....will you?


Berlieving the way i do, i would say yes, everyone who has ever lived will be there.


Quote: GWT-REV 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds


Ive underlined the points i want to emphasise on.

Jesus said that he was coming quickly to render to every man ....according to his deeds.
Quote:
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."



and in rom 2;

Quote:
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation

Peter said the heaven and the earth would pass away,at his coming, but dont worry we look for the new heaven and earth where righteousness only dwells.

Doesnt it appear like -at the 2nd coming we go to the GWT?

Here is more scripture to suggest this.;


Quote: REV 7
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."


When does God wipe away the tears?
rev 21.,
At the GWT.---right after the G-TRIB.

Also notice that the book of life is opened at the GWT.
In other words the sons of God are revealed once the book is opened,not before, and those names not found in it are thrown into the fire.

Jesus warned,
he who overcomes ;

Quote:
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Yes i believe we will all be there, hence the plea to found watching (awake) and to be ready, lest your name is found to be erased out of the book, when it is finally opened.

Not all who say to LORD LORD will enter.

 

[Dispy]

What an amazing event this will be.
Who do you think will be there?....will you?

Berlieving the way i do, i would say yes, everyone who has ever lived will be there.

Quote: GWT-REV 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds


Ive underlined the points i want to emphasise on.

Jesus said that he was coming quickly to render to every man ....according to his deeds.
Quote:
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

and in rom 2;

Quote:
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation

Peter said the heaven and the earth would pass away,at his coming, but dont worry we look for the new heaven and earth where righteousness only dwells.

Doesnt it appear like -at the 2nd coming we go to the GWT?

Here is more scripture to suggest this.;

Quote: REV 7
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."


When does God wipe away the tears?
rev 21.,
At the GWT.---right after the G-TRIB.

Also notice that the book of life is opened at the GWT.
In other words the sons of God are revealed once the book is opened,not before, and those names not found in it are thrown into the fire.

Jesus warned,
he who overcomes ;

Quote:
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Yes i believe we will all be there, hence the plea to found watching (awake) and to be ready, lest your name is found to be erased out of the book, when it is finally opened.

Not all who say to LORD LORD will enter.

Only the lost since the fall of Adam will stand at the Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20. That will take place at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ upon the earth. This is the 2nd resurrection of prophecy.
All the saved that were promised a place in the earthly kingdom will be resurrected at the 2nd coming of Jesus to establish His kingdom upon the earth. This is the first resurrection of prophecy.

There will be one large resurrection prior to the first resurrection of prophecy. That is the resurrection of members of the Church, the Body of Christ, as stated in 1 Thess. 4:13-17. Those raptured will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be rewarded according to their works (1 Cor. 3:8-15).

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I agree with Dispy.


Those who are in Christ are resurrected and taken to the New Jerusalem where God wipes away every tear from their eyes...any day now.

The New Jerusalem comes down to the earth as a BRIDE (when did we go) after the GWT Judgment of the dead since Adam, and God wipes away every tear from the eyes of those who then inherit eternal life in New heaven/New Earth after the millenium.

 

[jeffweeder]

Thankyou Ladies.

Im not sure how to say what im seeing here.

deep breath

It seems to me ,that at the judgement, both great and small are raised--and the books are opened.
What this means to me is everything is made clear about who people really were throughout their lives,....like Jesus saying--, the things done in secret will be megaphoned from the house tops...and there is no where to hide.
The court then presents the book of life, and it is opened to reveal the names of those who are worthy of the blood of the lamb, to escape the judgement that would have been yours, if it wasnt for Jesus love for you.
Jesus warns us to overcome, lest when he opens the book, your name may be erased.

Is matt 25 :31- not this GWT time?
The day reveals it--
All of creation waits in eager expectation, for the sons of God to be revealed ( opening of the book of life?)

Those whose name was in the book, seem to be baffled by it.

"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter....

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Thankyou Ladies.

Im not sure how to say what im seeing here.

deep breath

It seems to me ,that at the judgement, both great and small are raised--and the books are opened.
What this means to me is everything is made clear about who people really were throughout their lives,....like Jesus saying--, the things done in secret will be megaphoned from the house tops...and there is no where to hide.
The court then presents the book of life, and it is opened to reveal the names of those who are worthy of the blood of the lamb, to escape the judgement that would have been yours, if it wasnt for Jesus love for you.
Jesus warns us to overcome, lest when he opens the book, your name may be erased.

Is matt 25 :31- not this GWT time?
The day reveals it--
All of creation waits in eager expectation, for the sons of God to be revealed ( opening of the book of life?)

Those whose name was in the book, seem to be baffled by it.




not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter....

Regarding your reference to "All of creation waits in eager expectation..."
This is referring to our change to glorified bodies and there certainly is a judgment (righteous by the blood of Christ) that comes with that but it's not the GWT. Check it out:

Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation–but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Rom 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
Rom 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs–heirs of God and co‑heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Rom 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Rom 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


The very next thing on the agenda, at the beginning of judgment, prior to wrath, is the change to glorified bodies for the Bride of Christ.

Judgment day:

1Pe 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

We are judged by the blood of Christ, therefore righteous.

God then boots satan out of heaven which is a judgment that he shouldn't be in heaven.
God then pours out warning judgments on mankind. (trumpets of Rev)
God judges the beast and his kingdom and pours out wrath on him and those who follow him.
1000 years of living and dying.
GWT judgment.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What an amazing event this will be.
Who do you think will be there?....will you?


Berlieving the way i do, i would say yes, everyone who has ever lived will be there.


Quote: GWT-REV 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds


Ive underlined the points i want to emphasise on.

Jesus said that he was coming quickly to render to every man ....according to his deeds.
Quote:
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."



and in rom 2;

Quote:
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation

Peter said the heaven and the earth would pass away,at his coming, but dont worry we look for the new heaven and earth where righteousness only dwells.

Doesnt it appear like -at the 2nd coming we go to the GWT?

Here is more scripture to suggest this.;


Quote: REV 7
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."


When does God wipe away the tears?
rev 21.,
At the GWT.---right after the G-TRIB.

Also notice that the book of life is opened at the GWT.
In other words the sons of God are revealed once the book is opened,not before, and those names not found in it are thrown into the fire.

Jesus warned,
he who overcomes ;

Quote:
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Yes i believe we will all be there, hence the plea to found watching (awake) and to be ready, lest your name is found to be erased out of the book, when it is finally opened.

Not all who say to LORD LORD will enter.

Just one thing i like to clarify. Jesus comes to give reward. The great white throne scene happens after the 1000 years. His second coming happens before. In both cases he gives reward. The saints are rewarded at his second coming where they are caught up and the promise of John 14: 1 - 3 is fulfilled. The great white throne judgment is not for saints but for those who did not rise at the second coming and for those who were slain at his second coming. Those that remain from the first resurrection are the rest of the dead who stand before God at the white throne judgement. The opening of the books is just for fairness. He didn't have to open books at his second coming to take the saints to heaven. But here he opens the books so that all in heaven could see his justice.

 

[Dispy]

Only the lost since the fall of Adam will stand at the Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20. That will take place at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ upon the earth. This is the 2nd resurrection of prophecy.
All the saved that were promised a place in the earthly kingdom will be resurrected at the 2nd coming of Jesus to establish His kingdom upon the earth. This is the first resurrection of prophecy.

There will be one large resurrection prior to the first resurrection of prophecy. That is the resurrection of members of the Church, the Body of Christ, as stated in 1 Thess. 4:13-17. Those raptured will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be rewarded according to their works (1 Cor. 3:8-15).

Thankyou Ladies.

Im not sure how to say what im seeing here.

deep breath

Now just relax. But first of all, I am not a lady. My wife is though.

It seems to me ,that at the judgement, both great and small are raised--and the books are opened.
What this means to me is everything is made clear about who people really were throughout their lives,....like Jesus saying--, the things done in secret will be megaphoned from the house tops...and there is no where to hide.
The court then presents the book of life, and it is opened to reveal the names of those who are worthy of the blood of the lamb, to escape the judgement that would have been yours, if it wasnt for Jesus love for you.
Jesus warns us to overcome, lest when he opens the book, your name may be erased.

Rev. 20:11 "11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."[/QUOTE]

The Great White Throne Judgment takes place at the end of the Mellinneal reign of Christ upon the earth. Only the Lost since the fall of Adam will be judged there. The "small and great" of vs. 11 is referring to stature of the one being judged. They could range from the lowest murderer to the greatest earthly ruler.

All those at this judgment will be judged according to their works, and they will be found as "dung." They will all be cast into the lake of fire.

From Psalms 69:27, 28 It appears to me that at the time of one's birth, their name is listed in the "book of life." At the death of the lost person, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Then at the Great White Throne Judgment, only those whose names are blotted out of the book of life, will be judged, and then cast into the lake of fire.

Is matt 25 :31- not this GWT time?

Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goat:

This take place at the 2nd coming of Christ. This jusgment is of those nations that either helped Israel, or worked against her during the Great Tribulation. The nations that treated Israel favorably will be allowed to go into the kingdom. In verse 41 we learn what happens to other nations that were on His left hand.

The day reveals it--
All of creation waits in eager expectation, for the sons of God to be revealed ( opening of the book of life?)

Those whose name was in the book, seem to be baffled by it.



not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter....

Not sure what you are saying in the above.

 

[jeffweeder]

Now just relax. But first of all, I am not a lady. My wife is though.

OOPS, sorry dispy.

I was hoping to leave millenial interpretations out of the discussion for the time being.


Quote: GWT-REV 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

He utters his voice once, and they come forth to either a book of life judgement or eternal judgement.

I cant see a 1000 year gap between judgements reading that-or Matt 25

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. .....


Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world............


"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

This is what happens the GWT JUDGEMENT.

 

[Dispy]

QUOTE=Dispy]Now just relax. But first of all, I am not a lady. My wife is though.[/QUOTE]

OOPS, sorry dispy.

I was hoping to leave millenial interpretations out of the discussion for the time being.

Your apology is accepted. It did give me a chuckle though.

Why would you want to leave out the millenial interpretation? Begining in Rev. 20:7 it speaks of what will happen after the thousand years have expired.

Rev. 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Quote: GWT-REV 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds
[/QUOTE]

Hope you noticed that none will be judged according to their sins. WHY? Because Jesus paid the sin debt for all mankind on the Cross of Calvary.

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

It is Jesus, as the "Son of man" that will judge men. He (Jesus) is man's Redeemer, and He will also be man's judge. He will execute justice upon all ungodly sinners.

28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

He utters his voice once, and they come forth to either a book of life judgement or eternal judgement.

I cant see a 1000 year gap between judgements reading that-or Matt 25

Donald Webb, in his book BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINES explains it better, and in fewer words then I can.
Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, And shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:28,29).

This is Israel's prophesied resurrection, and it is actually two resurrections separated by a period of one thousand years. To help understand this, we turn to the Book of Revelation. There we learn the exact workings of the completion of the day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ to establish the millennial kingdom:

... and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection; on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years (Revelation 20:4,6).

But concerning the second resurrection, it says:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years werefinished.. . (Revelation 20:5).

Verses 12 through 15 speak of the final resurrection of the unjust, who then die the second death in the lake of fire. So, prophetically, the first resurrection is this one at the beginning of the millennium and is the one to which all Israel looks.

We believe this is when Old Testament saints will be raised to enter their kingdom hope as taught in Ezekiel 37. But the second resurrection is at the end of the millennium and is the expectation of all the lost of all ages. The first resurrection is a prophetic[/ ] resurrection for the nation Israel and is separate from the secret resurrection for which we, the Body of Christ, wait. We could say that Israel's first resurrection takes place at the Second Coming of Christ.

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. .....


Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world............


"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

This is what happens the GWT JUDGEMENT.

NO, this is what happens at the 2nd coming of Christ to establish His kingdom. This is the judgment of the nations. There is no resurrection mentioned. These nations will be judged in accordance with how they treated Israel. Those nations that treated Israel favorably will be allowed into the kingdom.

 

[MamaZ]

Sorry Christians do not go to the GWT

 

[A Brother In Christ]

amen

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Sorry Christians do not go to the GWT

I very much agree with this and this is the point that I made in my earlier post. Christians are raised in the first resurrection. The rest of the dead are non-christians. They are the one's that have to face the fire.

Does it strike anyone that the bible does not say that anyone will be saved in the GWT judgment. Its says what will happen with those who are lost but it does not say what will happen to any who are found worthy. I believe that it does not say that because no one will be saved then. Thats my belief.

 

[jeffweeder]

Does it strike anyone that the bible does not say that anyone will be saved in the GWT judgment

What it does say is that those names who are not found in the book are thrown into the fire.
That is saying that there is some there whos names are in it.
Jesus said that those who overcome, i will not erase his name from the book.
In order to erase someones name from the book, the book must be opened, and it is opened at the GWT.

Is not the REV 7 throne scene, the scene that follows immediately after the rev 21 throne scene.
Straight after the judgement, God tabernacles with us, wipes our tears away etc.


Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."



REV 7
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life;and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Did this enormous crowd come out the millenium or the GT?


But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.



Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world............


"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;


Those on his left do not have their names in the book of life and are thrown into the fir prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

[garry2]

I very much agree with this and this is the point that I made in my earlier post. Christians are raised in the first resurrection. The rest of the dead are non-christians. They are the one's that have to face the fire.

Some are Christians, the book of life is opened.

Does it strike anyone that the bible does not say that anyone will be saved in the GWT judgment.

Those found written in the book of life will be saved.

Its says what will happen with those who are lost but it does not say what will happen to any who are found worthy. I believe that it does not say that because no one will be saved then. Thats my belief.

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Someone was arguing with me recently, I don't remember who, that hell and the lake of fire is the same place, but here we have in verse 14 hell being cast into the lake of fire.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Some are Christians, the book of life is opened.

So why wont they get resurrected when the Lord descends with a shout and the dead in Christ rise. Aren't they in Christ. Why would God leave them unresurrected and have other resurrected.

Someone was arguing with me recently, I don't remember who, that hell and the lake of fire is the same place, but here we have in verse 14 hell being cast into the lake of fire.

What does hell mean in that context. Hades can mean the grave or death

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Death here is coupled with the grave. Just something i thought could mean something. I just noticed that relation.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What it does say is that those names who are not found in the book are thrown into the fire.
That is saying that there is some there whos names are in it.
Jesus said that those who overcome, i will not erase his name from the book.
In order to erase someones name from the book, the book must be opened, and it is opened at the GWT.

Here is the thing Mr. Weed, the books are not opened when The Lord descends from heaven with a shout and the dead in Christ are raised. He does not need the books to tell him who is saved and who is not. The books are for everyone in heaven to see his justice. The books are opened so that everyone would see exactly why these people have not made it so that God will be proven as a righteous judge. Imagine after the saints spend 1000 years in heaven with God there are still saints who are left dead. Thats not fair isn't it not?

Is not the REV 7 throne scene, the scene that follows immediately after the rev 21 throne scene.
Straight after the judgement, God tabernacles with us, wipes our tears away etc.

Tears that come from the reality that many of those that we loved didn't make it. At least the books are opened so that we can see God's justice.

 

[garry2]

So why wont they get resurrected when the Lord descends with a shout and the dead in Christ rise. Aren't they in Christ. Why would God leave them unresurrected and have other resurrected.
You can choose whether to beleive these scriptures or not.

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.




What does hell mean in that context. Hades can mean the grave or death

Then you have just agreed with me, hell is not the lake of fire.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Death here is coupled with the grave. Just something i thought could mean something. I just noticed that relation.[/quote]

And that's what I,ve been saying, hell is the grave.
And not the lake of fire.
Are you answering here to someone elses post or something?

Scripture says that hell was thrown into the lake of fire meaning they are not one and the same thing. Just something I thought could mean something.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death

But Jen has another view on what hell is so you and me could both be wrong.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Doesnt it appear like -at the 2nd coming we go to the GWT?

That is also my view. I actually view the 1000yr periods as Daniel's time, times, half-a time. After the last bowl is poured out in Revelation, It is Finished to the throne judgement would have to be just before that event.

I think John 5:45 is a very important verse as they will be judged by Moses and the Law and those could be the books opening up in Reve 20. I have a thread on it from awhile back at the link at bottom if you want to peruse it.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

JOHN 5:45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses You-- Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his Writings, how will you believe My Words?"

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks: Be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the throne and from the wrath of the lamb-kin

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the Heaven, the Miyka'el and the messengers of him, battle with the Dragon, and the Dragon battles and the messengers of him 8 and not he is strong, neither Place/topoV <5117> found of-Them still in the heaven.

Reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from Whose Face the land and the heaven fled away. And there was found no Place/topoV <5117> for them.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5239077&page=3
Need help with Books Opened in Reve 20

 

[garry2]

Doesnt it appear like -at the 2nd coming we go to the GWT?

That is also my view. I actually view the 1000yr periods as Daniel's time, times, half-a time. After the last bowl is poured out in Revelation, It is Finished to the throne judgement would have to be just before that event.

I think John 5:45 is a very important verse as they will be judged by Moses and the Law and those could be the books opening up in Reve 20. I have a thread on it from awhile back at the link at bottom if you want to peruse it.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

JOHN 5:45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses You-- Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his Writings, how will you believe My Words?"

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks: Be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the throne and from the wrath of the lamb-kin

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the Heaven, the Miyka'el and the messengers of him, battle with the Dragon, and the Dragon battles and the messengers of him 8 and not he is strong, neither Place/topoV <5117> found of-Them still in the heaven.

Reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from Whose Face the land and the heaven fled away. And there was found no Place/topoV <5117> for them.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5239077&page=3
Need help with Books Opened in Reve 20

The GWT is clearly after the 1000 years, after satan is thrown into the lake of fire.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Here is a judgment at the start of the thousand years where those died in Christ were made to live and reign with christ for the thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

You can choose whether to beleive these scriptures or not.

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I do believe these scriptures. They don't say what will happen to any who are found worthy and i believe that it is because none will be found worthy or else they would have been resurrected with the dead in Christ. Look at post #16 and tell me what you think.

But Jen has another view on what hell is so you and me could both be wrong.

If that the reason why we could be wrong then I don't accept that reason. We can't be wrong because someone else disagrees. There has to be a better reason.