Are we making progress on this forum?

[MattRose]

Has anyone seen a thread on here where two or more people have opposing viewpoints and one of them ended up agreeing with the other guy and even admitting he was wrong? You know, like what we think might happen in a perfect world. These threads all seem to end with no one ever changing their mind. Now I know that a lot of times people will agree that they mispoke earlier, but can someone link to a thread where good debate and evidence actually swayed someone?

 

[drich0150]

Has anyone seen a thread on here where two or more people have opposing viewpoints and one of them ended up agreeing with the other guy and even admitting he was wrong?

Not openly but I have had several who have (after lots, even years) of PM correspondence change the way they think and even come to the faith. All of which started from a thread that they started or wandered into.

You know, like what we think might happen in a perfect world. These threads all seem to end with no one ever changing their mind. Now I know that a lot of times people will agree that they misspoke earlier, but can someone link to a thread where good debate and evidence actually swayed someone?

Generally people do not like admitting defeat, so when the heart/mind in question is ready to change their position, the conversation generally goes private... Or so says my experiences with the people who come here looking for answers.

That said, for every one who is truly looking for answers there are a thousand looking for an argument, or looking to take out their anger for God on those who choose to represent Him the best way they know how.

 

[drich0150]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7532095/

seems to be an example of a work in progress.

 

[seashale76]

Has anyone seen a thread on here where two or more people have opposing viewpoints and one of them ended up agreeing with the other guy and even admitting he was wrong? You know, like what we think might happen in a perfect world. These threads all seem to end with no one ever changing their mind. Now I know that a lot of times people will agree that they mispoke earlier, but can someone link to a thread where good debate and evidence actually swayed someone?

Dear Lord, I'm irritated by this place. This is a forum for non-Christians who struggle- whatever that is supposed to mean- we all struggle and non-Christians aren't special because they do. It isn't apologetics. That was done away with ages ago around here. There should be no debate because there is nothing to debate. Either you believe in God or you don't. Nobody on a message board will convince you or persuade you other wise. People give other posters way too much power over them in this regard I've found- but it's hardly surprising considering that a lack of critical thinking is endemic in the world these days. I've only posted about three times at CF in a number of weeks because I'm finding these types of message boards to be beyond pointless. People who hold such posts up to anyone who passes by as their last great hope for convincing them that God exists- or whatever the objective du jour is- are downright silly. It annoys me. Have we lost our tenable grip on reality to technology in such a short span? Yep. Get off the internet. Live life. Pray to the God you don't believe in to reveal Himself to you. I initially came to CF not to exclude people who didn't believe the way I did, but to find a commonality with people who did. I don't feel welcome here. It's a petty place and it has little to do with Christianity. Enjoy it if you like- I'm done.

 

[MattRose]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7532095/

seems to be an example of a work in progress.

I read the thread that you linked. That person if 99% of the way convinced that christianity is the true path. He/she (I didn't look) is asking for help to achieve the last 1%.

I was asking for an example where two people have opposing viewpoints and due to good debate/evidence one of them is eventually convinced that the opposing viewpoint is correct.

 

[MattRose]

Dear Lord, I'm irritated by this place. This is a forum for non-Christians who struggle- whatever that is supposed to mean- we all struggle and non-Christians aren't special because they do. It isn't apologetics. That was done away with ages ago around here. There should be no debate because there is nothing to debate. Either you believe in God or you don't. Nobody on a message board will convince you or persuade you other wise. People give other posters way too much power over them in this regard I've found- but it's hardly surprising considering that a lack of critical thinking is endemic in the world these days. I've only posted about three times at CF in a number of weeks because I'm finding these types of message boards to be beyond pointless. People who hold such posts up to anyone who passes by as their last great hope for convincing them that God exists- or whatever the objective du jour is- are downright silly. It annoys me. Have we lost our tenable grip on reality to technology in such a short span? Yep. Get off the internet. Live life. Pray to the God you don't believe in to reveal Himself to you. I initially came to CF not to exclude people who didn't believe the way I did, but to find a commonality with people who did. I don't feel welcome here. It's a petty place and it has little to do with Christianity. Enjoy it if you like- I'm done.

I think you should stay away from this section of the forum. I'm sure you know what goes on in here. You should know better than I that other sections of this website are for those who just want to be around other christians. I don't get to post in those sections. I'm guessing it's all sunshine, flowers, and butterflies in there. Here is where people who think religion is a joke come to taunt believers. Here is where "christians" who are unsure of their own faith come to taunt unbelievers. If you're lucky you might catch a glimpse of a christian actually helping a nonbeliever.

If it makes you feel any better this site has taught me that not all christians are like the idiots who post anti-Obama, pro-hate messages on FoxNews. Unfortunately, I do feel that most christians here are more eager to score a point in an argument than to lead someone to christ.

 

[drich0150]

I read the thread that you linked. That person if 99% of the way convinced that Christianity is the true path. He/she (I didn't look) is asking for help to achieve the last 1%.

I was asking for an example where two people have opposing viewpoints and due to good debate/evidence one of them is eventually convinced that the opposing viewpoint is correct.

I was beginning to wonder if you were going to be in the majority of the people who post an opposing view point to Christianity, and in the opening salvo the opposing view point is shot down, and the OP never responds. (This is the most popular form of conceding on this website)

As I said earlier most people simply turn the chat private (if they were truly interested in the chat to begin with) or drop it if they were simply trying to stir the pot.

 

[MattRose]

I was beginning to wonder if you were going to be in the majority of the people who post an opposing view point to Christianity, and in the opening salvo the opposing view point is shot down, and the OP never responds. (This is the most popular form of conceding on this website)

As I said earlier most people simply turn the chat private (if they were truly interested in the chat to begin with) or drop it if they were simply trying to stir the pot.

I suppose you're right about them going to private chats, especially if it involves a true religious conversion. Would be kinda tacky to do it in a thread.

I'm more discouraged that no one ever (apparently) admits to being wrong here. In reality I would think that an atheist might just get mad and resort to flaming, but it seems the christians do it too in equal numbers. Shame on them.

I think it's the way most of us approach debating online. Person A presents a belief and waits for a reponse. Person B reponds with 3 examples of why the belief is wrong. Person A decides to take on the weakest of the 3 examples with 3 of his own. Person B asks why Person A didn't challenge the other 2 examples and responds by attacking the weakest of the other guy's examples. Before long the original topic is merely a distant memory and no one ever revisits it.

I'm going to try to focus more and not allow my central point to be hijacked. Wish me luck.

 

[drich0150]

I suppose you're right about them going to private chats, especially if it involves a true religious conversion. Would be kinda tacky to do it in a thread.

There is much to be said about hashing things out on the thread. Because many people read and silently follow, in addition there are people such as yourself that seem to get discouraged because nothing every gets resolved with the same vim and vigor as the opening salvo's of just about every thread.

I'm more discouraged that no one ever (apparently) admits to being wrong here. In reality I would think that an atheist might just get mad and resort to flaming, but it seems the christians do it too in equal numbers. Shame on them.

Pride does indeed run deep on both sides.

I think it's the way most of us approach debating online. Person A presents a belief and waits for a response. Person B responds with 3 examples of why the belief is wrong. Person A decides to take on the weakest of the 3 examples with 3 of his own. Person B asks why Person A didn't challenge the other 2 examples and responds by attacking the weakest of the other guy's examples. Before long the original topic is merely a distant memory and no one ever revisits it.

You are correct for the most part, but there are those who do take the time to go line by line and point by point to address the non-Christian's concerns. I would suggest that you choose your battles wisely.

I'm going to try to focus more and not allow my central point to be hijacked. Wish me luck.

Good luck!

 

[DomainRider]

I was asking for an example where two people have opposing viewpoints and due to good debate/evidence one of them is eventually convinced that the opposing viewpoint is correct.

Sometimes a good debate can help each side understand the other's point of viewpoint a little better - get a broader perspective. It's often as much about learning about & understanding the people as the arguments themselves.

It's pretty rare in any debate that an opposing viewpoint is changed. ISTM the likelihood of change is inversely proportional to the distance between the viewpoints.

 

[salida]

Has anyone seen a thread on here where two or more people have opposing viewpoints and one of them ended up agreeing with the other guy and even admitting he was wrong? You know, like what we think might happen in a perfect world. These threads all seem to end with no one ever changing their mind. Now I know that a lot of times people will agree that they mispoke earlier, but can someone link to a thread where good debate and evidence actually swayed someone?

True- but there are times when people think about what you say and thank you for your info. I'm after these people-even if there 1 in 100.

 

[razeontherock]

I agree with the already stated point, that a forum like this is more about gaining appreciation for another's perspective, than it is about 'converting' anybody. I have seen quite a few convert in my short time here though!

 

[MattRose]

I have seen quite a few convert in my short time here though!

Ahah!! That's what I'm after. Not necessarily a conversion, but anyone who did a 180° (or at least 91°) from their initial viewpoint. Can you link to one of the threads where this happened?

 

[razeontherock]

I wouldn't say I saw it happen in any one thread. If it did I'd really doubt their sincerity, unless they were super close to begin with and had like one burning question that was really easy to answer or something. It's been more like getting to know someone, seeing where their issues are, and as they put in effort to find Truth, over a period of months or at least weeks they come around. But there is this one lone case of an extremely isolationist believer, who inexplicably turned Roman Catholic overnight Haven't seen him make sense out of that yet ...