Are we allowed to partake in Christmas?

Honestly, the traditions around the celebration of the Nativity have no bearing on whether it is ok to celebrate our Savior's birth and to thank Him for what He has done. We should do that every day in fact. Setting aside some time to specifically thank him is not pagan, no matter whether there was a pagan holiday at that time or not. (And yes, there was a Saint Nicholas. There is historical evidence for his existence as well.)

Jan001 said:

Do Christians sacrifice children on Christmas? No, Christians worship God in spirit and in truth on Christmas. If I use a candle in my worship of God, am I displeasing God because some poor, ignorant pagan also used a candle at some time in history in his worship of wood or stone idols? No, absolutely not!

For example: A candle is an inanimate object that is used for many good purposes. If a candle is used for an evil purpose, then it is the person who is guilty of the evil, not the candle.

Do Christians worship pagan gods on Christmas? No, Christians worship the one True God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) on Christmas. This worship by Christians on Christmas Day is pleasing to God.



I have read Zechariah many times. It is apocalyptic literature, Apocalyptic literature is imagery depicting a spiritual truth and it is not to be understood in a literal sense.

After Jesus returns for His second coming, there will be no more "years". We will be living in eternity which is the "ever-present day". There will be no more nights and therefore no more years will be passing by. There will be no more Judaism and therefore there will be no more Sukkot. The Jews who practice Judaism are people who have not accepted Jesus as their Savior!

Revelation 21:23-24
And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light shall the nations walk; and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates shall never be shut by day—and there shall be no night there; rsv

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv
​

CHRISTIANS DO NOT BECOME JEWS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. JEWS BECOME CHRISTIANS, MEMBERS OF JESUS CHRIST"S CHURCH!

JUDAISM WAS A "SHADOW" PRECURSOR OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST ARE CALLED CHRISTIANS.

Christians will participate in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb Jesus Christ, not the Sukkot of the Jews.

Revelation 19:9
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.” rsv

​

​

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I truly believe you love God and his word. The problem I see is some people spiritualize things that dont play into their doctrine sometimes to try and understand. He said we will keep Sukkot that is pretty plain and it does not conflict with Revelation. The only odd one is Ezekiel's account of the end and how it has a temple. I guess we will have to wait to find out how that comes into play.

We are graphted in Romans 11:24
Who is the new covenant for?Jeremiah 31:31 Hebrews 8:8

1John2:4 said:

Did a Saint Nicholas even exist as you claim?

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Don't be disingenuous. I won't bite.

1John2:4 said:

"Yule or Yuletide is a festival observed by the historical Germanic peoples, later undergoing Christianised reformulation resulting in the now better-known Christmastide

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English is a Germanic language. The suffix "-tide" means "time." The use of Yuletide is precisely like how you and I use Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. for the days of our week and January, February, March, etc. for our months. Outside of Germanic languages (which is to say the *majority* of Christendom) Christmastide is known as The Nativity (Natale, Noël, etc.), or in Semitic languages some form of /yld/ (to be born; Yeled, Yalda, Milad, etc.).

If you complain about Christmastide or Yuletide and don't complain about Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you're cherrypicking what's problematic.

1John2:4 said:

What about this pagan site
Yule Tree - Tree of Life
Yule trees go way back

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Modern paganism is just that: Modern. It doesn't have ancient roots, it's eclectic (borrowing from almost anywhere and claiming it as their own), and not very hard on facts (which to some pagans is a feature not a bug). The article you quoted is exceedingly uncritical and every other line has a fib or outright mistake in it. (Much like most anti-Christmas rubbish.)

S

SteveCaruso said:

Don't be disingenuous. I won't bite.



English is a Germanic language. The suffix "-tide" means "time." The use of Yuletide is precisely like how you and I use Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. for the days of our week and January, February, March, etc. for our months. Outside of Germanic languages (which is to say the *majority* of Christendom) Christmastide is known as The Nativity (Natale, Noël, etc.), or in Semitic languages some form of /yld/ (to be born; Yeled, Yalda, Milad, etc.).

If you complain about Christmastide or Yuletide and don't complain about Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you're cherrypicking what's problematic.



Modern paganism is just that: Modern. It doesn't have ancient roots, it's eclectic (borrowing from almost anywhere and claiming it as their own), and not very hard on facts (which to some pagans is a feature not a bug). The article you quoted is exceedingly uncritical and every other line has a fib or outright mistake in it. (Much like most anti-Christmas rubbish.)

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So what day of the week is Yuletide? You sound very intellectual and I'm sure you have done extensive research but I'm sorry friend I am going to have to go with the research. Most sources I have shared have no reason to be bias against Christmas. Pretty much the entire world keeps Christmas, Atheists wiccans and all. We are not called to be conformed to the world but to be set apart. The facts are the facts. Not only that the deciples never made any attempt to worship Him on His birthday, they kept the feasts, so I must follow the example they set.

llopez88 said:

Hello, this is my first December season after having read the Bible and I am unsure about celebrating Christmas. Isn't it a pagan tradition? I remember reading Jeremiah 10:3-4 and thinking about this issue.

Personally at this moment, I feel christmas has nothing to do with Jesus and according to Jer 10, a christmas tree is a pagan practice that gentiles practice.

What are your thoughts on Christians celebrating this day?

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Christmas comes from Christ's Mass. It has been celebrated since 354 AD on December 25th was a date selected by Pope Julius I using the Julian calendar. Before this date, it was celebrated on January 6th to celebrate the visit by the Magi.

Along the way, Pagan symbols were incorporated after converting them to Christianity. It was made commercial in the US in the 1800's to commercialize this celebration. Santa Claus was a corruption of Saint Nicolas who gave to the poor during this time. He was a Bishop of Myra (280 AD?) that was located in the present day Turkey.

Ya Know, OP, no one gets to choose for you. If you do not want to celebrate, then don't. If you want to, have fun. It is up to you

SteveCaruso said:

Fact check:



False. The Christmas tree is a germanic Christian custom of charity. Originally the ornaments were edible alms for the poor, with a few gold-colored ones to remember St. Nicholas (more on that below). Before there were trees the custom was to leave alms or gifts in untended shoes or socks (which later evolved into stockings [drying] on the hearth).



False. Christmas was never on the Winter Solstice (which is December 20-23 depending on the year), and the earlier date for it was January 6th. The date was calculated relative to Pascha/Easter and it is completely unrelated to Saturnalia.



False. "Santa Claus" is a Germanic folk depiction of St. Nicholas of Myra, a Christian Bishop who was present at the Council of Nicea, known for his acts of Christian charity and gift giving. He was a real person. We have his remains. Here is what he looked like based on a forensic reconstruction of his skull:

Part of his story was that he paid the dowries of poor young women so that they could marry. In some depictions the gold coins of the dowries were replaced with (or just misinterpreted as) gold balls – and that's where Christmas ornaments, especially Christmas tree ornaments, originate from: An act of Christian charity.



False. Christmas was celebrated way before the schism that made the Catholic and Orthodox churches and eventually fractured Christianity into its modern denominations. The Church celebrated Christmas. It was and is a Christian practice.

Please do not spread false information.

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Evergreen tree worship goes WAY, WAY back before Germanic Christian tradition. We can trace it back to Babylon. Just google "Babylonian evergreen worship Nimrod" or something similar and you'll find plenty. Below is an image of Babylonian evergreen worship. The Germans might have added some decorations and brought the tree indoors, but you'll see in the paragraph below that decorating evergreens was very much a part of Saturnalia.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/mba/img/34000.jpg


Yes, the modern calculation of the winter solstice is between December 21-23. But, remember that's the MODERN calculation. I think we can give the ancients a couple days margin with their imprecise tools and calculations. In addition, Saturnalia started on December 17 and lasted 7 days, so up until December 24th. Interestingly, there are Jewish sources (Talmud) that mentions an 8 day pagan festival around the time of the winter solstice. Again, I think we can give the ancients a 1-2 day grace period. Even if you don't want to give a couple days' grace, are we really to ignore the other similarities between Saturnalia and Christmas - gift giving, wreaths, garlands (which were hung over doorways, windows, and on stairs), evergreens being decorated, merry-making, and the fact that Saturnalia is a celebration of the birth of the sun (like the birth of the Son of God?)?

Having bones and a face reconstruction proves nothing. Nicholas of Myra could have been a real person, but it's questionable whether he was at the Council of Nicea and his existence isn't mentioned in any historical document to my knowledge (Saint Nicholas | bishop of Myra). But, perhaps you can point me to historical documents that do show his existence?). We also have coins showing Saturn riding in a chariot pulled by horses (similar to a sleigh and reindeer)! Going back to evergreen worship in Babylon, here's an image of Nimrod (who is the original sun god and born on December 25th!), who built Babylon, being associated with evergreens and a reindeer.

Saturnalia - Wikipedia

nimrod reindeer evergreen - Google Search

If you want to believe that the Church (before the Catholic/Orthodox split) celebrated Christmas, that's fine, but that doesn't make it right. The question is whether it's a pagan celebration, which from what I mentioned above sure seems like it is. And if Christmas is a pagan celebration, we should not be using it to worship God per Deuteronomy 12:2-4, 31.

SteveCaruso said:

Spoliers: 119 Ministries likes to play a bit loose with their facts here.

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How so?

Jan001 said:

Do Christians sacrifice children on Christmas? No, Christians worship God in spirit and in truth on Christmas. If I use a candle in my worship of God, am I displeasing God because some poor, ignorant pagan also used a candle at some time in history in his worship of wood or stone idols? No, absolutely not!

For example: A candle is an inanimate object that is used for many good purposes. If a candle is used for an evil purpose, then it is the person who is guilty of the evil, not the candle.

Do Christians worship pagan gods on Christmas? No, Christians worship the one True God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) on Christmas. This worship by Christians on Christmas Day is pleasing to God.



I have read Zechariah many times. It is apocalyptic literature, Apocalyptic literature is imagery depicting a spiritual truth and it is not to be understood in a literal sense.

After Jesus returns for His second coming, there will be no more "years". We will be living in eternity which is the "ever-present day". There will be no more nights and therefore no more years will be passing by. There will be no more Judaism and therefore there will be no more Sukkot. The Jews who practice Judaism are people who have not accepted Jesus as their Savior!

Revelation 21:23-24
And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light shall the nations walk; and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates shall never be shut by day—and there shall be no night there; rsv

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv
​

CHRISTIANS DO NOT BECOME JEWS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. JEWS BECOME CHRISTIANS, MEMBERS OF JESUS CHRIST"S CHURCH!

JUDAISM WAS A "SHADOW" PRECURSOR OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST ARE CALLED CHRISTIANS.

Christians will participate in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb Jesus Christ, not the Sukkot of the Jews.

Revelation 19:9
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.” rsv

​

​

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When you quote John 4:23 "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks" I'm curious what you think truth is. Can I ask your opinion based on Scripture?

christopheralan88 said:

When you quote John 4:23 "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks" I'm curious what you think truth is. Can I ask your opinion based on Scripture?

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Your vast array of words and artwork fade into non-existence today: meaningless, having no impact on the memories of the birth of our Savior, His ministry, the Cross. Authentic Christians world-wide have no need whatsoever to look into or study or comprehend these worthless artifacts. We observe His birth; we praise Him for the Gift of eternal salvation. We go on our way rejoicing.

Winken said:

Your vast array of words and artwork fade into non-existence today: meaningless, having no impact on the memories of the birth of our Savior, His ministry, the Cross. Authentic Christians world-wide have no need whatsoever to look into or study or comprehend these worthless artifacts. We observe His birth; we praise Him for the Gift of eternal salvation. We go on our way rejoicing.

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Can you tell me what the truth is that Jesus mentioned in John 4:23? Please use Scripture.

Concerning you saying that studying the history of pagan holidays is worthless and meaningless, Scripture would disagree with you - "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

1John2:4 said:

So what day of the week is Yuletide? You sound very intellectual and I'm sure you have done extensive research but I'm sorry friend I am going to have to go with the research.

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Geohholmōnaþ or Iūlmōnaþ ("Yule-month") was the equivalent of December in the old English calendar. Just like how Ēosturmōnaþ ("Easter-month" – which Venerable Beade called the "Paschal Month") was the equivalent of April.

1John2:4 said:

Most sources I have shared have no reason to be bias against Christmas.

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But they rely upon outdated information that was popular in the 1800s.

1John2:4 said:

Not only that the deciples never made any attempt to worship Him on His birthday, they kept the feasts, so I must follow the example they set.

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And again, they had no problem with Chanukah.

A lot of replies are related to "well, that's not what it means to me".
It isn't important what it means to us but what it means to God.

We are told what to "remember" or "celebrate" about Yeshua (Jesus); His death, until He comes.

My main problem with these infused pagan feasts are that they are usually observed with the exclusion of the biblically mandated Feasts of the Lord.

If we observe His death until He comes, wouldn't that mean we should be observing Passover? Rabbi Sha'ul (Apostle Paul) thought so.

Now the question should be answered, if you celebrate Christmas and not Passover, who are you listening to or following? That should be answered honestly.

Dig4truth said:

A lot of replies are related to "well, that's not what it means to me".
It isn't important what it means to us but what it means to God.

We are told what to "remember" or "celebrate" about Yeshua (Jesus); His death, until He comes.

My main problem with these infused pagan feasts are that they are usually observed with the exclusion of the biblically mandated Feasts of the Lord.

If we observe His death until He comes, wouldn't that mean we should be observing Passover? Rabbi Sha'ul (Apostle Paul) thought so.

Now the question should be answered, if you celebrate Christmas and not Passover, who are you listening to or following? That should be answered honestly.

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Pascha is the new Passover. It celebrates Jesus as the Paschal lamb - the Passover. That's the whole point of His death and resurrection.

7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Pascha is the celebration of death and resurrection of our Passover, Jesus Christ. The Nativity is the start of it all, leading up to Pascha. That said, Pascha is the Feast of Feasts because it is the true meaning of salvation.

christopheralan88 said:

Evergreen tree worship

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Christmas trees are not tree worship. The tree is a dispensary of Christian alms. As I've said in another thread, it doesn't even have to be a tree, and the earlier tradition was to leave presents in unattended shoes. Does one then worship shoes?

And the Babylonian connection is tenuous at best since last I checked the Babylonian and Germanic cultures don't overlap.

christopheralan88 said:

In addition, Saturnalia started on December 17 and lasted 7 days, so up until December 24th.

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It was the 17th to the 23rd inclusive, it never touched the 24th or 25th (according to the Chronography of 354), and Christmas Eve wasn't a thing until later. So, Saturnalia is over for an entire day before Christmas began. The two never overlapped.

christopheralan88 said:

are we really to ignore the other similarities between Saturnalia and Christmas - gift giving, wreaths, garlands (which were hung over doorways, windows, and on stairs), evergreens being decorated, merry-making,

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The "evergreens" used in Saturnalia were laurels, so to say that this is a parallel is simple equivocation and a fallacy. The laurels were not decorated, they were the decoration. Gift giving was part of Chanukah as well, and if you think that merry-making is pagan then there is no helping you.

christopheralan88 said:

his existence isn't mentioned in any historical document to my knowledge

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I'm surprised that Britanica doesn't mention the mid 4th to early 6th century Praxis de Stratelatis and the 8th century Encomium of Andrew.

christopheralan88 said:

We also have coins showing Saturn riding in a chariot pulled by horses (similar to a sleigh and reindeer)! Going back to evergreen worship in Babylon, here's an image of Nimrod (who is the original sun god and born on December 25th!), who built Babylon, being associated with evergreens and a reindeer.

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Yes, because reindeer are native to Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean now?

The sleigh and reindeer are 17th-19th century additions to the tradition. Far beyond when the Roman Empire and its religions were more than dead.

Nimrod's birthday was not December 25th. No primary source attests to that. He is also not associated with evergreens, nor reindeer (there is a single carving that depicts Nimrod with a Persian fallow deer, but it's not his "associated animal" or a common depiction, or any other such nonsense – it's a one-off).

christopheralan88 said:

The question is whether it's a pagan celebration, which from what I mentioned above sure seems like it is.

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It's as much a pagan celebration as the Lincoln-Kennedy Coincidences are significant.

(Which is to say not.)

Dig4truth said:

A lot of replies are related to "well, that's not what it means to me".
It isn't important what it means to us but what it means to God.

We are told what to "remember" or "celebrate" about Yeshua (Jesus); His death, until He comes.

My main problem with these infused pagan feasts are that they are usually observed with the exclusion of the biblically mandated Feasts of the Lord.

If we observe His death until He comes, wouldn't that mean we should be observing Passover? Rabbi Sha'ul (Apostle Paul) thought so.

Now the question should be answered, if you celebrate Christmas and not Passover, who are you listening to or following? That should be answered honestly.

Click to expand...

All4Christ said:

Pascha is the new Passover. It celebrates Jesus as the Paschal lamb - the Passover. That's the whole point of His death and resurrection.

7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Pascha is the celebration of death and resurrection of our Passover, Jesus Christ.

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Easter is most definitely not the new Passover, nor is there a such thing as the new Passover or new Feast of the Lord. Consider:

"The blood (of the Passover lamb) will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt. This is a day you are to commemorate; FOR ALL GENERATIONS YOU ARE TO CELEBRATE IT AS A SPECIAL FESTIVAL TO THE LORD - A LASTING ORDINANCE." (Exodus 12:13-14).

"See that you do all I command you (this includes Passover; do not add to it or take away from it." (Deuteronomy 12:32).

"I the LORD do not change." Malachi 3:6.

All4Christ said:

Pascha is the new Passover. It celebrates Jesus as the Paschal lamb - the Passover. That's the whole point of His death and resurrection.

7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Pascha is the celebration of death and resurrection of our Passover, Jesus Christ. The Nativity is the start of it all, leading up to Pascha. That said, Pascha is the Feast of Feasts because it is the true meaning of salvation.

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That is why it is such an important Feast! It reminds us that we can be set free from slavery (to sin). It reminds us of the bitterness of slavery. It points to the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world and much more.

So why do people celebrate something that originates from the enemy in exclusion of the real Feast that points to the Messiah?

This is my question.

christopheralan88 said:

Easter is most definitely not the new Passover, nor is there a such thing as the new Passover or new Feast of the Lord. Consider:

"The blood (of the Passover lamb) will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt. This is a day you are to commemorate; FOR ALL GENERATIONS YOU ARE TO CELEBRATE IT AS A SPECIAL FESTIVAL TO THE LORD - A LASTING ORDINANCE." (Exodus 12:13-14).

"See that you do all I command you (this includes Passover; do not add to it or take away from it." (Deuteronomy 12:32).

"I the LORD do not change." Malachi 3:6.

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7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Do you agree that Jesus is our Passover?

Dig4truth said:

That is why it is such an important Feast! It reminds us that we can be set free from slavery (to sin). It reminds us of the bitterness of slavery. It points to the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world and much more.

So why do people celebrate something that originates from the enemy in exclusion of the real Feast that points to the Messiah?

This is my question.

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We (Eastern Orthodox) certainly do not ignore Pascha or celebrate the Nativity of Christ to the exclusion of the Paschal feast, remembering the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Passover. Come to an Orthodox Pascha celebration someday and you'll see what I mean. However, we focus on Jesus as the Passover lamb.

(Whether celebrating the Nativity of Christ does or does not "originate from the enemy" is another question altogether.)

SteveCaruso said:

Christmas trees are not tree worship. The tree is a dispensary of Christian alms. As I've said in another thread, it doesn't even have to be a tree, and the earlier tradition was to leave presents in unattended shoes. Does one then worship shoes?

And the Babylonian connection is tenuous at best since last I checked the Babylonian and Germanic cultures don't overlap.



It was the 17th to the 23rd inclusive, it never touched the 24th or 25th (according to the Chronography of 354), and Christmas Eve wasn't a thing until later. So, Saturnalia is over for an entire day before Christmas began. The two never overlapped.



The "evergreens" used in Saturnalia were laurels, so to say that this is a parallel is simple equivocation and a fallacy. The laurels were not decorated, they were the decoration. Gift giving was part of Chanukah as well, and if you think that merry-making is pagan then there is no helping you.



I'm surprised that Britanica doesn't mention the mid 4th to early 6th century Praxis de Stratelatis and the 8th century Encomium of Andrew.



Yes, because reindeer are native to Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean now?

The sleigh and reindeer are 17th-19th century additions to the tradition. Far beyond when the Roman Empire and its religions were more than dead.

Nimrod's birthday was not December 25th. No primary source attests to that. He is also not associated with evergreens, nor reindeer (there is a single carving that depicts Nimrod with a Persian fallow deer, but it's not his "associated animal" or a common depiction, or any other such nonsense – it's a one-off).



It's as much a pagan celebration as the Lincoln-Kennedy Coincidences are significant.

(Which is to say not.)

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The Babylonian connection is tenous at best?? Seriously? Remember the tower of Babel (which was in Babylon)? God confused their language and nations arose out of that. If they were all in the same location, they would have all been infused with the same pagan religion. That's why you see mother-child worship starting with Semiramas/Tammuz(Nimrod) in Babylon and extending all over the world to modern day Modonna/Jesus. They all share the same root.

You don't want to give the ancients with their NON-MODERN calculations and tools a 1-2 day break? Also, remember that the Talmud says that the festival lasted 8 days. That would bring it to the 24th. I think you can give the ancients a 1-2 day break especially considering all the similarities I listed between Saturnalia and Christmas which you didn't address.

This website which is for people who practice Saturnalia today mentions the use of garlands (Saturnalia Practices of Nova Romans) in Roman times. No, I don't know their source, but I'm going to give some credibility to them because who would be more motivated to research this than those who still observe Saturnalia? Can you cite your source that says they used laurels? Not that I think it matters, they're still trees or plants and you didn't address the similarities of gift giving, wreaths, evergreens being decorated, merry-making, and the fact that Saturnalia is a celebration of the birth of the sun (like the birth of the Son of God?).

The Encyclopedia Brittanica may not mention those because only two of those are within 100 years of Nicholas' supposed birth which was around 270 AD. And maybe they're not reliable - I'll have to look into it. The 8th century seems too far from his birth. Legend may have appeared by then. Regardless, it's your word against an encyclopedia.

Sure looks like a reindeer in the image to me, but you can call it a deer. But don't dodge the point. What do you have to say about the similarities between Nimrod - the original sun god born on December 25th and had a religion of tree worship and associations with deer and evergreens?

Please google "Nimrod evergreen worship" and look at as many examples as you want until you're convinced. It's definitely not a one-off when it comes to evergreen worship. Deer association might be a one off, but you wanted to hold two 3rd and 4th century writings about Nicholas over an encyclopedia, so I can use a single depiction of Nimrod with a deer over your....word...either way, what about Saturn being depicted with a chariot of horses on a Roman coin? Does that seem similar to Santa?