Are they both saying the same thing?

[Adventtruth]

I hope this aids in your understanding.

One of the purposes of Johns letter is to refute the anti-christians who were infiltrating the church.

Agreed.

“See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:24-27

His purpose was neither to prove that we (our generation) are saved already nor that the people of his time were saved at the present.

I agree...the purpose was to fight the nostics of his day.

(Keep in mind the meaning of salvation. You can refer to my post above)

If we are dead before Jesus Christ comes and we die in the faith, we will not die the second death. If we have the down payment of the Holy Spirt with in us, who is also the seal, then we have in fact eternal life now. Kindly look at these promises from the bible.

(Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The promise of Jesus is that we have eternal life. Look at the verb tense. Its a present continuos. As long as we remain true to Jesus through faith we are saved now.

(Rom 5:5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The Holy Spirit is also dwelling with in us through faith...this is also another sign of us being saved.

John makes it clear in the beginning of his letter that eternal life is conditional. I must have fellowship with him by continually walking in the light. “

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.” 1 John 2:6 .

I agree.

I can forfeit my eternal life at anytime and in many ways; one of which is relying on myself.

I agree...I am not an advocate of OSAS

(i.e. Having the attitude which Peter displayed. This is what Mrs. White was referring to.) Another example of what happens when we begin to rely on ourselves is Judas. However, he never recovered from his condition as far as we know.

Why do you assume I am relying upon my self? Mrs White was dead wrong if she wrote that we can not say we are saved. Who do you believe, the bible or Mrs White? Whike it is true those wo lst to the end will be saved, that does not nullify that those who trust to day are saved. Look at the passage I gave above...


(Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Are you in fact saying this is a lie? How about this one

(1Jo 5:11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(1Jo 5:12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(1Jo 5:13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Are you saying John had it completely wrong and EGW had it right? John speaks in the present tense...does he not?

John warns in 1 John 1:8 “

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.”

OK...I agree here...are you saying I said I am with out sin? kindly explain.

Again, my point is that eternal life is dependent upon our continual “walk in the light”,

I have no problem with this statement...It would be impossible with out it.

John’s statement and Ellen White’s statement are not at odds because they were written for different purposes and audiences.

They are at odds.

John was dealing with believers who were beginning to doubt whether eternal life was provide through Christ. (Primarily because of the anti-Christians that we among them)

The major theme of First John is fellowship with God. John wanted his readers to have assurance of the indwelling God through their abiding relationship with Him (2:28, 5:13). Belief in Christ should be manifested in the practice of righteousness and love for the brethren which in turn produces joy and confidence before God. John wrote this epistle to encourage this kind of fellowship and to emphasize the importance of holding fast to apostolic doctrine. First John was also written to refute the destructive teachings of the Gnostics by stressing the reality of the Incarnation and the emptiness of profession without practice. These “antichrists” failed the three tests of righteous living, love for the brethren, and belief that Jesus is the Christ, the incarnate God-man.

-AT​

http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftnref1

 

[SisterDee]

ADVENTRUTH,

"If we are dead before Jesus Christ comes and we die in the faith, we will not die the second death. If we have the down payment of the Holy Spirt with in us, who is also the seal, then we have in fact eternal life now. Kindly look at these promises from the bible.


I believe this to the extent that you used the word "now". If "I know I am saved" were the last the last words we were to say before taking our last breath, then I would be confident in saying them. If you do not believe in OSAS then you understand that even though we have the Holy Spirit, who is also the seal, we can deny his power or decide to stop following him at any time. Me saying that I am saved now is presumptuous and signifies the OSAS mentality. It is dangerous.



The promise of Jesus is that we have eternal life. Look at the verb tense. Its a present continuos. As long as we remain true to Jesus through faith we are saved now.

This makes no sense in the context in which you are trying to place it. Let me give you an example. Maybe it will help us to understand each other better. Let's pretend that I am a regular bus rider. I am confident that I will be picked up at 9:00am because the busdriver himself told me that he would be there. Can I say at 7:00am that I am picked up already? No. But I can say with confidence that I as long as I stay at my bus stop I will be picked up. Salvation is what we are waiting on. It is the glorious promise which we as Adventist are waiting to experience. Salvation: to be saved from something. That something is this world literally and spiritually.



"Why do you assume I am relying upon my self? "


I never said this nor did I assume it. I am sorry if it appeared that way.




"Mrs White was dead wrong if she wrote that we can not say we are saved. " (underline added by sisterdee for emphasis)


Well, she didn't write that in the quotations that you posted. She simply warned against it just as she warns against the effects of meat eating.




"Who do you believe, the bible or Mrs White? "


It's suprising to me that you ask this question. Did I not come to you with scripture? The only reason I used Mrs. White is because the thread that you posted it entitled, "Are they saying the same thing?"

Whike it is true those wo lst to the end will be saved, that does not nullify that those who trust to day are saved. Look at the passage I gave above...

The passage is in line with the other biblical evidence which points to salvation from this world as an event to take place when HE comes. I love that passage by the way.


"(Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Are you in fact saying this is a lie? How about this one

(1Jo 5:11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(1Jo 5:12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(1Jo 5:13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Are you saying John had it completely wrong and EGW had it right? John speaks in the present tense...does he not?"



Is it possible for you to find in my post where I said or implied that John was lying, or where I exalted EGW over him? If you can, find it and send it to my email so that I can make the proper corrections. Also, you must first read the Greek text to find what tense the writer intends to use. That is a rule of thumb for the entire New Testament. The mood is lost in translation. I am not saying that he was not speaking in the present tense, but honestly one cannot say without proper examination of the text that he was. My husband reads Greek very well, I will ask him to look at it. Hopefully you will trust me
to be honest.



"They are at odds."


How?


Here's a scenario that sums up the matter.

At the present I am fully trusting in GOD and walking in his will. I am sure you would say that I am "saved." God forbid, I leave the faith in a few years, never to return. And when the Lord returns I am unprepared to meet him in peace. Was it then safe for me to have assumed that I was ultimately saved?
I am not doubting what John was saying, I am simply reinforcing that he made it clear that it is conditional. Review the verse in bold from my original post.

In Christian LOVE,
SisterDee

 

[Sophia7]

This is kind of off-topic, but since you mentioned the importance of reading the Greek text, SisterDee, I'll bring it up. For anyone who is interested, we are having an online Greek class in GT. It's just getting started; we are on lesson two (one lesson per week), so you could easily catch up.

 

[Adventtruth]

[

Me saying that I am saved now is presumptuous and signifies the OSAS mentality. It is dangerous.

Well Dee, to that I would say I am sorry that you are not secure in your relationship new with Christ, becasue He has saved you.

The promise of Jesus is that we have eternal life. Look at the verb tense. Its a present continuos. As long as we remain true to Jesus through faith we are saved now.

This makes no sense in the context in which you are trying to place it. Let me give you an example. Maybe it will help us to understand each other better. Let's pretend that I am a regular bus rider. I am confident that I will be picked up at 9:00am because the busdriver himself told me that he would be there. Can I say at 7:00am that I am picked up already? No. But I can say with confidence that I as long as I stay at my bus stop I will be picked up. Salvation is what we are waiting on. It is the glorious promise which we as Adventist are waiting to experience. Salvation: to be saved from something. That something is this world literally and spiritually.

WOW sisterDee! You can argue all you want. It was John who wrote those words in teh context setting, not I...I merely repeated them to you.Your example about the bus rider falls way short. We are in a union with Christ now through faith. We are saved now through our faith now by grace. Do you believe you have been transfered from the kingdome of darkness into the wonderful kingdome of light sisterDee?

Well, she didn't write that in the quotations that you posted. She simply warned against it just as she warns against the effects of meat eating.

Mrs White contradicts the bible with these two statements.

"We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayers, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, "I am saved." {1SM 314.1}

"Those who accept the savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. this is misleading...only those who indure the trial will recieve the crown of life." { "Christ's Object Lessons" Page 155 first paragraph}

It's suprising to me that you ask this question. Did I not come to you with scripture? The only reason I used Mrs. White is because the thread that you posted it entitled, "Are they saying the same thing?"

It seems that you wont believe that you have eternal life now with the testimony of the bible, for believeing EGW.

The passage is in line with the other biblical evidence which points to salvation from this world as an event to take place when HE comes. I love that passage by the way.

"(Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

sister dee, the passage says hath (has...present tense) everlasting life, no reference to the future here.

Is it possible for you to find in my post where I said or implied that John was lying, or where I exalted EGW over him? If you can, find it and send it to my email so that I can make the proper corrections. Also, you must first read the Greek text to find what tense the writer intends to use. That is a rule of thumb for the entire New Testament. The mood is lost in translation. I am not saying that he was not speaking in the present tense, but honestly one cannot say without proper examination of the text that he was. My husband reads Greek very well, I will ask him to look at it. Hopefully you will trust me

to be honest.

sisterDee...I have the Tense Voice Mood...so I know.

Here's a scenario that sums up the matter.

At the present I am fully trusting in GOD and walking in his will. I am sure you would say that I am "saved." God forbid, I leave the faith in a few years, never to return. And when the Lord returns I am unprepared to meet him in peace. Was it then safe for me to have assumed that I was ultimately saved?
I am not doubting what John was saying, I am simply reinforcing that he made it clear that it is conditional. Review the verse in bold from my original post.

If you are presently trusting you are saved...if you fall from grace you are lost, simple. Ultimate salvation only comes when the body is redeemed.

AT

 

[mystery4]

In response to the OP:

A retired pastor once said to me, if you want to fully understand EGW's point of view on a particular topic then you need to read everything she said on that topic.

Its the same way for the Bible, in order for us to fully understand some parts we also need to read everything it says on a particular topic.