Are These Mystic Practices OK?

[Christos Anesti]

The Desert Fathers - experimented with different disciplines, some of which were too harsh or extreme (is anything from God too harsh or extreme???)

I don't see them as any more harsh then the disciplines and tasks that Christ took on Himself. He called us to take up our Cross and follow Him.

 

[airō]

I don't see them as any more harsh then the disciplines and tasks that Christ took on Himself. He called us to take up our Cross and follow Him.

Watch the videos and you may think otherwise. The context of that note was that they experimented with various mystical/occult practices and found that some were too harsh and extreme.

 

[nChrist]

Again, we should make a clear distinction between the teachings and traditions of men versus what the Bible Teaches.

Here are a few samples:

Leviticus 20:6-7 KJV And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. 7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 4:19 KJV And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 KJV 9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

2 Kings 17:16-18 KJV And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. 17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. 18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

2 Chronicles 33:5-6 KJV 5 And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. 6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Isaiah 47:12-15 KJV Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. 13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. 14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. 15 Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.

Jeremiah 8:1-3 KJV At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves: 2 And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth. 3 And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

Jeremiah 10:1-3 KJV Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jeremiah 14:14-20 KJV Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed. 16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them. 17 Therefore thou shalt say this word unto them; Let mine eyes run down with tears night and day, and let them not cease: for the virgin daughter of my people is broken with a great breach, with a very grievous blow. 18 If I go forth into the field, then behold the slain with the sword! and if I enter into the city, then behold them that are sick with famine! yea, both the prophet and the priest go about into a land that they know not. 19 Hast thou utterly rejected Judah? hath thy soul lothed Zion? why hast thou smitten us, and there is no healing for us? we looked for peace, and there is no good; and for the time of healing, and behold trouble! 20 We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 2:27-28 KJV Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Acts 7:42-43 KJV Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? 43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Acts 16:16-18 KJV And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Even just a little bit is not good. Our True and Living God has everything we need.

 

[VCViking]

Rick Warren reveals a forked tongue here:

Good Fight Ministries: Rick Warren (type "Rick Warren" in the search key at the top of the web page)

Thanks for the link. Looks like a good website. I'm going to check it out later.

 

[bloodbought09]

I don't see them as any more harsh then the disciplines and tasks that Christ took on Himself. He called us to take up our Cross and follow Him.

Even more that you tolerate the eye of horus over your churches. That my brother is not taking up your cross. Come out of her before you share in her sins. Be blessed.

 

[airō]

These may be helpful to the discussion:

What is Meditation?

What is "Christian" Mysticism?

What is Contemplative Prayer?

 

[bloodbought09]

Where do you get this from? Not the bible. It was made popular by Ghandi. While God does love us and He does hate sin, we can't negate Psalm 5:5.

Amos says, love what God loves and hate what God hates. I hate practices that make us look to the left and to the right and not straight forward on God. We are told to love our neighbors as ourselves. Oftentimes we see the demonic stuff on these people loved by God but project it just on them. We should be mad at hell, but not the individual. We should love them enough to warn them, but if they do not listen, their blood is on their own hands. His words may not be recieved by everyone, but that is not our fault if we speak the truth, and they have a blockage in their ears and a hard heart. It is God that takes the stony heart away and the word of God that bursts through the stopped ears. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. It is hard to talk to a person who is not receptive to what you have to say, or treats the name of Jesus like a curse word. Those who are offended by that name, will be offended by the words of that name, and those who profess Him. But when we come into the land of His goodness we are told not to touch the accursed thing and He will accept us. The devil comes to steal everything including our soul, kill us, and use any means to destroy us all, whether we believe or not by any means he can use, any wile, trick, or snare. God gives us an abundant life and we have a responsibility to be vigilant, to be on the watch for ourselves, for others, and those we love. We truly need to have more of a sphere of love for not just our family or church family but everyone around us. If we provide for just our own and care for them only, how selfish is that? Be blessed and not all directed at you.

 

[Christos Anesti]

Even more that you tolerate the eye of horus over your churches.

Care to elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you are talking about. My Church doesn't have an eye of horus on it anywhere.

That my brother is not taking up your cross.

I'm far from an expert at taking up the cross and following Christ. The Desert Fathers on the other hand were much more adept at this.

 

[bloodbought09]

Care to elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you are talking about. My Church doesn't have an eye of horus on it anywhere.



I'm far from an expert at taking up the cross and following Christ. The Desert Fathers on the other hand were much more adept at this.

That is good. Maybe I was a little presumptuous. I cannot stand that all seeing eye stuff. Anyway, it is a sun symbol with lines going out from it.

 

[Christos Anesti]

No eye of Horus on my Church. I don't think many Churches have them really.

it is a sun symbol with lines going out from it.

Like on the Dollar bill?

 

[bloodbought09]

No eye of Horus on my Church. I don't think many Churches have them really.



Like on the Dollar bill?

Right, like on the dollar bill, and that one is another one. Alot of orthodox churches have them on them. I do not remember if it were greek orthodox or eastern. It has been a while since I was on youtube. Forgive me, I actually do not think I had my cross that day. Kinda hypocritical. Sometimes you forget that actual people are on here with feelings. Or at least I do.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I hadn't ever seen the eye with the solar rays on an icon before but I did find this picture reportedly of a Monastery on Mount Athos that has one similar to that on the back of the dollar bill. The eye in the triangle was apparently used in Medieval and Renaissance religious artwork. The Triangle represented the Trinity and the eye the all seeing eye of God. It was a symbol for providence. I don't think it's as common in Eastern artwork but it looks like there might be one of them on a Monastery .

 

[gratefulgrace]

Thats big

 

[bloodbought09]

God is all knowing and all seeing but He does not need a picture depicting it. The eye of horus is the devil's interpretation of having those of his cohorts watching everything that those do who choose to live righteous and looking for an opportunity to make them trip.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I'm not sure if it's an icon or if it's just a piece of religious themed artwork. Maybe I will ask the Iconographer folks at TAW and they will let me know. To be honest I don't know if it's even a real monestary on Athos because I found it on some anti-mason conspiracy site.

::edit::

It looks like this has been discussed here:
http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?5116-The-all-seeing-eye-evil-eye