he-man
he-man
- Oct 28, 2010
- 8,891
- 301
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
O vain man, you just don't get it! Abraham not only acted by faith but he acted because he knew who God was and that God was going to raise him from the dead.What kind of faith? Blind faith? Isn't that nonsense precisely what I've been repudiating throughout this discussion?
Ok go out and kill your son on blind faith. Then we'll see whether God celebrates you even as Hebrews 11 celebrated Abraham and the others.
So if I opine that God is testing me, it's okay to obey a voice commanding me to slaughter my son? Even without 100% certainty? That was my claim - you can't really claim to KNOW the will of God without 100% certainty functioning as your voice of conscience.
Anything less than 100% certainty is (at least partially) blind faith because it is something less than fully warranted behavior.
I'm going to prove you wrong right now. The two claims in contention are:
(1) My position. Abraham's ULTIMATE rationale was a self-authenticating voice (a voice granting 100% certainty).
(2) Your position. Abraham's ULTIMATE rationale was that he reasoned based on God's character and thus took a LEAP of faith (i.e. he lacked 100% certainty).
Now aside from the fact that your position makes him out to be a monster (as only a monster would slaughter his son based on reasoning, or hearing voices, at less than 100% certainty), it also leads to the following logic contradiction. You're saying that Abraham, based on reasoning, regarded the slaughter as the RIGHT THING TO DO. Well, then, why didn't he follow through with it? Why did he finally abstain?
You can't have it both ways. You can't say:
(1) Abraham reasoned it was the right thing to do.
(2) Abraham reasoned it was the wrong thing to do.
That doesn't make sense. Whereas it makes PERFECT sense to claim:
(1) Abraham heard a persuasive voice (persuaded him at 100% certainty) to kill his son.
(2) At the last moment, he heard a persuasive voice (persuaded him at 100% certainty) to NOT kill him.
I'm not going to contradict Hebrews - I'm not going to suggest that Abraham never engaged in reasoning. All men reason. I'm merely pointing out that his ULTIMATE warrant was a self-authenticating (i.e. persuasive) voice.
Your approach doesn't explain how Abraham KNEW that it was the true God speaking, versus a deceiver.
Abraham is the principal OT paradigm of faith for all NT saints to emulate - and he had nothing in writing! You don't get it. You fail to see that God has ultimately called us to a Voice-based covenant, not a (written) law-based covenant.
Um...how could he be sure it wasn't a deceiver speaking? There are a lot of religions out there - AND MOST OF THEM BELIEVE IN DOING GOOD DEEDS. And yet these religions are fostered by - demons! How does one really know God's voice unless it's persuasive?
For the last 500 years, most - perhaps all - evangelical scholars have concurred with Calvin's doctrine of the Inward Witness - that our faith germinates in, and is daily sustained by, a self-authenticating inner voice. You're the one who doesn't get it.
But The prophet Abraham is our paradigm - and he had no Bible!
Do you think God is stupid? Why make Abraham the paradigm if he doesn't fit the bill?
That simply doesn't work. Are you an INFALLIBLE Bible student? Exegesis has no hope of infallibility. Only prophetic inspiration can proffer it.
Why do you think He said: God is not the God of the dead, but of the living
Hebrews_11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mark also says that Abraham believed in the resurrection.
Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
And Luke goes on to say the same thing.
Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
John goes so far as to says that Abraham believed that the day would come.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Abraham believed not just by faith, but by obeying God when he was instructed to slay Isaac.
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
James justifies Abraham through obedience to the commands of God.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only
Upvote
0