Are there people who seemingly got away with their sin?

[TommySoda]

It seems everyone who commited a sin usually got a punishment harsh and that fit the crime. However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

 

[Ken Rank]

It seems everyone who commited a sin usually got a punishment harsh and that fit the crime. However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

Punishment doesn't have to only come on this side of eternity.

 

[Tolworth John]

However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

Not everything that happens to people in the bible or in history or today is God punishing or rewarding behaviour.
So if you read the OT you will discover many people who did evil and many who did good, yet there is no mention of there being punished or rewarded.

 

[TommySoda]

Not everything that happens to people in the bible or in history or today is God punishing or rewarding behaviour.
So if you read the OT you will discover many people who did evil and many who did good, yet there is no mention of there being punished or rewarded.

Mentioned isn’t the same as god just refusing to punish, I meant examples of that.

 

[Tolworth John]

Mentioned isn’t the same as god just refusing to punish, I meant examples of that.

God didn't refuse to punish. This life is not where rewards or punishments are given.

 

[Thess]

It seems everyone who commited a sin usually got a punishment harsh and that fit the crime. However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

I love these kinds of questions, as the answers can be very powerful and useful tools of information, allowing us to understand so as to provide better answers, so as to “save some”.

Such a great question….but I can’t think of anyone that fits that scenario. I suppose the fact that if it were mentioned, that would be severe punishment in itself, to have your “junk” posted to the entire world until Christ returns. Brutal.

The closest examples I could think of would be first Peter and then Timothy. First Peter, man, what a difficult individual! This guy was consistently a thorn, referred to as “Satan” and on and on. I’d like to know what his thoughts were when he found out that Paul had called him out on falling astray, leading Barnabas and many others into the same, unbelievable trap of fear that involved circumcision and the thoughts of "men". I cannot grasp or even come close to understanding how this man could have been with Christ from the absolute beginning, yet fall victim to old thinking that kills. That poor man, how he must have suffered! But seriously, Paul found Peter to be so out of line that Paul called out Peter to the ENTIRE set of churches in the city of Galatia. How humbling and embarrassing; and how unbelievable.

And the poor Timothy. I’ve yet to learn about what ever happened to him as he was falling victim to his fears. Being sent by imprisoned Paul, Timothy was to essentially rescue the flock, and more importantly, those that might be on the edge of Christ. But the pressure of the two, false renegade teachers that had established a good stronghold on the church, had put Timothy into a frail, mental state.

In my opinion, there is nothing worse than leaving lost souls who are seeking Christ because we are simply too afraid. Those who are of God will lay down their lives for their friends and brothers, so this challenge upon Timothy is great. And it is a great, great and respectable challenge, for if Jesus was afraid of being tortured and murdered by its own measly creations, then we, too, can be fearful of an unruly death. So while I understand Timothy’s plight, I do wonder how these sins of his would be dealt with.

I know that these stories do not answer your question, but somehow I feel they might apply, particularly because no one talks about these passages in this way.

I believe in you.

 

[Thess]

Uggg...this is a double post.

 

[Thess]

Hmmm.....learning lessons with the online software. Apologies, but I don't know how to delete my triple posts.

 

[Dave-W]

I saw a show on TV this last weekend where they were investigating an unusual building on an island in Argentina. Access is restricted by the government.

When the reporter got to the town on the shore near the island, he got a shock. The town had been full of nazi war criminals including Josef Mengele, Adolph Eichmann and a few of the nuclear scientists who worked on the German ww2 atomic weapon program. Argentina wanted nuclear power and prez Peron liked the Nazis. Some even said that Hitler himself lived in that town into the 1960s. So the show concluded with the thought that some of the most notorious war criminals in history got to live out lives and die a natural peaceful death without ever coming to justice.

But my wife quipped that even if they escaped justice in this life, they would not in the next.

 

[eleos1954]

It seems everyone who commited a sin usually got a punishment harsh and that fit the crime. However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

There is a difference between punishment and discipline. He disciplines during our life on earth. We also experience consequences resulting from our sins.

Discipline and punishment are not the same thing. Discipline is the practice of training someone to behave in accordance with rules or a code of behavior.

Punishment of God will occur when final judgement occurs.

Romans 14:12

So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

We have a loving God, our heavenly Father, and He disciplines His children.

Hebrews 12:4-12

God Disciplines His Children (did so in the past, does so now)

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

God Bless.

 

[TommySoda]

There is a difference between punishment and discipline. He disciplines during our life on earth. We also experience consequences resulting from our sins.

Discipline and punishment are not the same thing. Discipline is the practice of training someone to behave in accordance with rules or a code of behavior.

Punishment of God will occur when final judgement occurs.

Romans 14:12

So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

We have a loving God, our heavenly Father, and He disciplines His children.

Hebrews 12:4-12

God Disciplines His Children

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

God Bless.

Didn’t God kill two people in the early church for lying? That sounds a lot like punishment considering they can’t “learn” anything from dying.

 

[usexpat97]

However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

Most absolutely. I have gone unpunished before, and my sin was not even victimless. It's called grace. Other times, a nonbeliever will get away with a lot more than I ever would have. That falls under "the Lord disciplines those whom He loves." I am being molded--they are not.

Right now, I am really, really struggling with a serious sin another Christian did to me. I can't do anything about it except leave it to God. It falls under "the king has forgiven you of your debt of 10 thousand talents, but you threw your neighbor in prison over 5 shekels". The Bible also says we are not to take our Christian brothers to a secular court. I don't want to be that guy. It seems, in that situation, that the correct thing is to go back to God, and sign over your debt of 5 shekels to God. So the other guy now owes GOD 5 shekels. But it's really hard. But--in so doing, at least I don't incur the wrath of the king like the guy in the parable did.

 

[eleos1954]

Didn’t God kill two people in the early church for lying? That sounds a lot like punishment considering they can’t “learn” anything from dying.

Yes, they just like everyone else will not receive punishment (unto eternity), until the day of judgement. Nobody is judged by God until then. Is dying a earthly death regardless of how a punishment? How can there be punishment without judgement? At earthly death one ceases to exist here on earth (one might consider that punishment ... does God?) ... at judgement (at the 1st or 2nd resurrection) one will either rise to be with the Lord or be totally destroyed and both judgements will be for eternity and those in the 2nd resurrection are judged and receive Gods punishment.

Ecclesiastes 9

5For the living know that they will die,

but the dead know nothing;

Is not knowing nothing punishment?

God Bless.

 

[JohnC2]

It seems everyone who commited a sin usually got a punishment harsh and that fit the crime. However has anyone ever commited a sin in the Bible and God barely punished them... if not at all?

You and I both have gotten away with sin against God my friend. Luckily for us - we have Jesus forgiveness, mercy, and grace.

The thing is - you can’t “walk the narrow path”. If you are conservative - you err on the side of law and tradition. If you are liberal, you err on the side of newness and mercy. Both sides are wrong and sin against God - but there is no escape. Repentance in this case generally means you will change and err the opposite way instead.

That’s why we need Atonement. Literally God’s covering.
It means that we make mistakes and God “Covers it”..

 

[usexpat97]

Didn’t God kill two people in the early church for lying?

Ananias and Sapphira is one of the most puzzling enigmas in the Bible that I have never wrapped my head around for years.

All I can think of is, God has His purposes. There is no gradient of punishment based on the severity of the crime, like there is in the judicial system (and even that is a joke quite often). God deals with different things in different ways, on a case-by-case basis. In Ananias' case, I think they were struck dead--and immediately went to Heaven. However, their disobedience to doing what they were called by the Spirit got them fired. They had a job to do here on earth, and they were relieved of their duties. Their example to other believers, however, fulfilled its purpose.

Here on earth, we tend to think of misdemeanors, felonies, and capital crimes at their worst; but God is looking at it from a completely different vantage point. We especially need to understand that our time on earth--suffering and all--is a privilege, and a limited-time opportunity to serve God in ways we will never be able to again. We've got a job to do.

 

[JohnC2]

Ananias and Sapphira is one of the most puzzling enigmas in the Bible that I have never wrapped my head around for years.

Ananias and Sapphira was not about lay people or new converts lying or participating in bad behavior. It was about teaching leadership about humility, restraint, and what it means to be clothed with the power of God. Compare it to 2nd Kings 2:23-24.

Jesus had warned James and John about this sort of thing in the episode where they wanted to call down fire in Luke 9:50-56. It wasn’t till this episode in Acts that they learned what Jesus was talking about. What happens when God carries out the things you blurt out in frustration?

Peter tended to be hot headed and impulsive. He was used to the life where he could mouth off or say dumb things and it never carried this sort of consequences.... At least it didn’t have this sort of consequence until he was clothed in The Holy Spirit and the Power of God.

Notice how there is never another record in the NT of an Apostle or Church Leader calling for the death of a convert after this. Why? Because they learned their lesson from this episode. They knew the true power of God and so they intentionally exercised Forgiveness, Mercy, and Grace.

And notice how the church in Jerusalem’s outreach and evangelism efforts suffered significantly from this episode - chilling the enthusiasm of new converts from joining them out of fear.

 

[Thess]

Ananias and Sapphira was not about lay people or new converts lying or participating in bad behavior.

That's interesting. How do you come to this conclusion, that they are not real people, that really lied to The Holy Spirit, who is God?

 

[Thess]

What happens when God carries out the things you blurt out in frustration?

This is interesting too. How does this work? Would this work for the church if they needed money to take care of the whole world? Can church leadership blurt out "a billion dollars", and could then feed the hungry and give to the poor?

 

[JohnC2]

That's interesting. How do you come to this conclusion, that they are not real people, that really lied to The Holy Spirit, who is God?

That wasn’t the point. New converts do dumb things. Jesus points out that New wine is stored in new wineskins.

And, well.... Killing all your new converts is not really a viable outreach strategy.

But LEADERSHIP needs to understand that the Power of God is a real thing. They need to treat that power with due humility and respect. As Paul says - The word of God is a sharp two edged sword piercing even to the division of the flesh and the spirit. It really IS in real life.

When you call out destruction on someone’s life and then witness God carry out their destruction before you - it’s a very scary and humbling thing.

And when you learn this because you witness it - you try to pray for forgiveness, mercy, healing and repentance... Because destroying somebody’s life NEVER solves either your problems or their problems.

 

[usexpat97]

When you call out destruction on someone’s life and then witness God carry out their destruction before you - it’s a very scary and humbling thing.

Most absolutely. This just doesn't seem like one of those times I would have expected God to have actually carried it out. I would have more expected the Apostles to receive a talking to from God. But that is not what happened.