It's not "just because I don't like them", it's because I've known a lot of people in my time and never once met anyone who traced their conversion to a tract. The fact is tract evangelism has an abysmally low success rate (if anyone has any stats on this I'd love to see them). Tracts offer practically nothing more than the "Sinner's Prayer", rarely offer any resources for discipleship and, in the case of thematic tracts (like Chicks' on Catholicism) offer and extremely limited treatment of the issue. Also, tracts are one way... the person who recieves it has no real avenue for dialog. And there's the relational issue: you don't have to demonstrate anything of God to someone to hand them a tract. As I said, you don't even have to look them in the eye. This is why people consider them the sidewalk equivalent of telemarketing.truthful1 said:
Yes, but is it a waste of time to simply do good to people if it's not directly evangelical? Is it a waste of time and resources to simply give something good or go that extra mile if you don't give them the rundown on the Gospel in the process?
Yes it is. But, we've somehow gotten to this place where we assume anything we do publically has to be "to share the gospel", rather than simply doing good to people or produce a high quality work with merit in and of itself. I believe, from my reading of Scripture, that God is interested in more than propaganda.
Define close.
I'm not saying this is ALL we should do, ever. I'm saying we need to pour a bit more of our resources into glorifying Jesus with our lives (including "silly" acts of service)because not doing so often makes the gospel null. And I'm saying that if you confront a person and back them into a corner they will get defensive, but if you speak from a position where they know you care about them and know where they are, they will listen. How many people do you work with regularly? How many people do you see regularly every month? How big a mission field is that? It really doesn't seem like settling for less to me.
Where I supported my original assertions about several Chick tracts.
First of all, few will truly convert, no matter what we do. Jesus told us it would be so. We need to be faithful to present the Gospel without worrying about the "success rate". That is in God's hands.EliasEmmanuel said:
The tracts I use don't have the "sinner's prayer" on them. They first grab their attention so people will want to read them, then they show people they are lost, and then they tell them how to get saved. There is also a website listed that they can go to and have all their questions answered. I only use one or two Chick tracts--and they are not ones about Catholicism.
Speaking for myself and the people I know who use tracts, we give people a tract after we have talked to them about where they are at spiritually. I don't advocate standing on a street corner and just handing them out to everyone who goes by, although that would be preferable to doing nothing.
It could be a waste of their soul. You never know when someone is going to die. The church I used to belong to has a food pantry. I think that is a good ministry, but they don't share the Gospel with people who come to get food. Suppose a family comes and gets a couple a bags full of groceries, but then they pull out on the highway and get hit head on and are killed? All the kindness and the groceries in the world won't save their souls. Having a full belly is good, but eternal life is better.
Actually, I've seen mostly just the opposite. The trend in evangelical churches these days is to NOT share the Gospel, but to just do works of kindness. That is so much easier than sharing the Gospel and risking rejection.
If I have to define it, my guess is that you won't agree with me that we shouldn't have those kinds of relationships.
I haven't done this and I don't know of anyone else who has. You hear it talked about a lot, but I've never actually seen it happen.
Not necessarily. I know several Christians who have unsaved family members, to whom they show much kindness, but they won't listen. Again, you're placing too much emphasis on what WE do, instead of on what God does. No one will come to Him unless He first calls them.
First of all, it's still a small percentage of the total people we come in contact with. Second, speaking for myself, and most people I have talked to, it is more difficult to witness to someone we are close to or work with on a daily basis, because of the fear of rejection. Therefore, many people don't witness to that group of people.
I haven't had time yet. Sorry.
Hi truthful1truthful1 said:
That is very true . .truthful1 said:
I am so glad to hear this. May I suggest that you consider finding a different source for you tracts as using them gives Jack Chick credibility in other areas and those who don't know better can be lured into believing what he writes about other issues that are off the wall, such as what he writes about Caholicism.
We are not to replace the Gospel of Christ witha social gospel . . we need to be careful and aware that we are not compromising one for the other or go off into extremes.
Yes.... some plant, some water, God provides the growth. But, it is our responsibility to be aware of who we're talking to and how to communicate with them effectively.truthful1 said:
Well that's good.
Good. I'd second therese on this.
Good. See, we're not saying vastly different things.
I can't add much to what therese said here..... simple service to other people is included in the commands of the New Testament. I'm not saying we should take a "hands off" approach but.... is "what happens when you die" the only answer we have for people? No, kindness and groceries won't save their souls, but EVERYTHING is not about souls. There's also following the servant model of Jesus even when a direct message isn't attached.
I'll grant people may not witness as much as they should, but I was referring to the overall message..... that being that whatever one engages in should be for the purpose of evangelism, and anything that's not directly evangelical is of less merit or a waste of time.
Well, yes and no.... a nonChristian friend is most likely never going to be as close as a Christian friend in the same position would be because you're way more limited in being able to talk about where you are spiritually and "iron sharpening iron". But have had and do have nonChristians I consider myself close to.
When I say "backed into a corner"..... I mean that when someone on the street comes up and starts talking about the condition of your soul, to most people it feels like a confrontation and they put up their defenses, even if they're still polite about it. This is not pure speculation on my part. Having those nonChristian friends and acquaintances gives one the advantage of being able to talk about this stuff.
Clearly I didn't mean "they will listen and convert". I meant they are more likely to consider the message presented real and credible.
That's true, but we also have to be careful not to allow ourselves to disregard our presentation. Many, many many are the people who have been dtriven further from Christ by (no doubt well meaning) Christians who didn't consider how what they said and did would be recieved.
I suppose compared to people you pass on the street....
I admit evangelism isn't one of my gifts. But this has been my point all along: shouldn't sharing the thing that matters most to us in this world in a natural way with the people near us be.... well, natural? I mean when I read a good book I wanna tell someone about it as soon as I fiond out they're a bookworm......
I didn't mean I only use Chick tracts. I meant that I only use one or two of his tracts, and only sometimes. I have about 15-20 different tracts, from www.livingwaters.comthereselittleflower said:
Let me clarify. I'm not saying that we shouldn't care for their temporal needs; I'm just saying that's not all we should do. After their temporal needs are taken care of, they need to hear the Gospel.
I suggest a person cannot be a disciple unless they are first converted and I don't think Jesus was talking about making disciples of people who are already believers. Jesus finished that command by saying, "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Baptism was something that was done right after conversion in those days. So, that would indicate to me that when He said to make disciples, He was also talking about conversion.
We don't have control over what happens after they leave, which is why it is important that we share the Gospel when we have the chance. If such a family died right after you had given them food, and you knew they weren't saved, wouldn't you feel at all bad that you didn't share the Gospel with them when you had the chance? Yes, we are to live the Gospel, but people get saved by hearing the words, NOT watching the behaviors. Besides, do you really want people to only get their idea of what it means to have a relationship with Christ by watching you?
Yeah, I know. We've covered that already. It's a cute and oft used cliche, but it is often misused to suggest that we don't have to verbally share the Gospel, as long as we are trying to live our lives as an example.
I don't agree completely. I think the primary focus should always be on their spiritual needs. What is more important than where a person will spend eternity?
I think we can agree on that.
I don't disagree.EliasEmmanuel said:
As I've stated previously, I DO find out where they're at.
I think about 90% - 95% do.
Concern is evident. You don't have to have a close relationship with a person to be concerned about their eternal destiny. In fact, many are touched by the fact that a total stranger would take the time to talk to them about spiritual things and their eternal destination.
I disagree; I think everything IS about souls. We will live for eternity...somewhere. Our time on Earth is like one drop in the ocean. That's not to say our time here isn't important. It IS important--we are to be about the business of saving souls.
Again, which is more important--a full belly, or eternal life? I think everything we do should have as it's ultimate goal to see as many souls as possible get saved.
The Bible tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers, and that bad company corrupts good morals. From what I have seen, it is more likely that an unbeliever will bring a believer down, than an unbeliever will get saved, when they are in close fellowship with one another.
Check out www.livingwaters.com and you will see how it is done--biblically and inoffensively.
Not necessarily. I've been in sales organizations and they say that your close friends and family members are the last ones you should approach. Why? Because they think of you as brother, friend, son, whatever, and don't always consider you credible about this new thing you are speaking to them about. Also, a person tends to get more discouraged and wants to give up when rejected by family and friends. Now, I'm not comparing sharing the Gospel to selling a product or service, but human behavior tends to be the same in both. If you grew up with someone, then you became a Christian and tried to witness to him, he is still going to think of you as he has known you from the past. If anything, he will regard you as a little off your rocker. When you approach a stranger, they have no pre-conceived notions of you.
Again, that's putting too much emphasis on our efforts. A lot of unbelievers, as well as Christians, blame us when people aren't interested in Christ. Again, it is in the Bible that most will NOT accept the Gospel, so why do we continue to look at it as a failing on our parts?
Well, I do agree that you shouldn't witness to someone who doesn't want to hear the Gospel, but you usually won't know until you start the conversation.
But another issue is.... do they know you care about their relationship troubles, money problems, etc.? Caring about someone's soul is, to a lot of people, pretty abstract. Personally I'd want to know the person I was talking to cared about all of me.
Everything is about whole people. That's what I'm getting at. Jesus didn't just come so we could go somewhere nice when we're dead, He came offering soemthing for mortal life also and we need to be about that business as well.
Which is more pertinent to the person at the time? It's hard to ask someone to discuss eternal matters when they're cold, or hungry, or terrified. The previously quoted verse from James says that if you find someone naked and hungry and say "God bless you, be warm and fed" but do nothing to help them practically then you've done nothing of value. And recall what Christ said about the "least of these".
I'd be lying if I said I hadn't run up against this before (though I attribute it largely to not having a solid group of Christian friends at the time... my failing, that), but I've also seen situations where even if people weren't ready to convert, they were prepared to take Christianity seriously again, which they hadn't done in a while. I recently got back in touch with someone I hadn't talked to in a while, only to find out they're a believer now, and to have them tell me that my being their friend, at that time in their lives, had a lot to do with their decision. Now it's not my intention to talk myself up, but my point is I've seen this work to whatever degree.
I'm not saying it's inherently bad, I'm saying a lot of people view it the same way they view telemarketing.
But a stranger also has no clue how I live my life and may have nothing to go on but ideas about crooked televangelists and 2-faced hypocritical "church people". I've had people react with surprise when they found out I was a Christian because I was "too nice". So it cuts both ways.
Yes, the bible does say that, and it's true. But we should be sure that when people reject the gospel it's really the Gospel they're rejecting and not our foolishness. A lot of stuff goes on in Christian circles that has nothing to do with the gospel, or perverts it (like priests, Pastors and "Christian" families abusing their children) or defies it, and the World notices this. "You may be the only Jesus someone sees" cuts both ways. I mean, I've seen this stuff...... I could tell you stories...and it makes an impact. That is something we can't ignore.
Absolutely. Talk to most people for 10 minutes and religion will come up in one form or another. But, bringing us back around to what started this, Off The Map's whole idea is that witnessing can be done in evceryday circumstances and doesn't have to be difficult or follow some prescribed formula.
