are there any Christians who dont believe in tatoos here

[faroukfarouk]

I understand, and I also understand that many feel the same way. But even there we want to be careful. That same line of think could also be used to say if I became a drug addict I could more effectively witness to drug addicts, or if I became a inappropriate content star I could more effectively witness to people in that industry.

I know most people mean well, but we need to be careful about how we follow certain lines of thought. They may very well remain harmless, but some people, even as Paul tells us, are weak in their faith and they could be much more open to taking it too far than others. One thing Jesus did teach us, as well as the Apostles, that we are to think of others ahead of ourselves. Just because we can do it doesn't mean we should.

I do think that indulging in illegal drugs and, say, a preacher's daughter getting a cross or Bible ref. on her wrist for witness purposes, is a case of apples and oranges really. Some people might get a tattoo to indulge the flesh, certainly, such as when a man goes to a parlor for a nude to be inked. When a conscientious Christian gets something inked on his or her wrist with the motive of witnessing through it, I think the category is rather different. I agree that indulging the flesh is a great danger, in general terms. I don't think we can lump together rather different instances, though. Blessings.

 

[MusingsinScripture]

I do think that indulging in illegal drugs and, say, a preacher's daughter getting a cross or Bible ref. on her wrist for witness purposes, is a case of apples and oranges really. Some people might get a tattoo to indulge the flesh, certainly, such as when a man goes to a parlor for a nude to be inked. When a conscientious Christian gets something inked on his or her wrist with the motive of witnessing through it, I think the category is rather different. I agree that indulging the flesh is a great danger, in general terms. I don't think we can lump together rather different instances, though. Blessings.

Hyperbole of course, but it's useful when trying to drive home a point. Jesus was much better at using it effectively than I'll ever hope to be.

Blessings to you as well.

 

[Ubuntu]

Now, I'm really fond of art and graphics, and I do appreciate the artistic side of tattoos. But I still think that we as Christians shouldn't get any tattoos and I'll try to explain...

Now, most of us have seen cool graffiti, haven't we? And graffiti could certainly convey a christian message. But how many of you would feel free to get a bunch of spray-cans and make a piece on the wall of your local church?

The reason why we would hesitate to do such a thing is because even if it's our Church, it doesn't solely belong to us. The Church is ultimately Christ's property. Even if we thought a certain graffiti piece was cool, it is not certain that everybody would see it this way, because art is closely connected to taste.

Yes, if we made a graffiti piece on the wall of our church we might be able to attract a few people who thought it was cool. But at the same time we would repel other people. And the message of the gospel is meant for every kind of person, from hipsters to conservative businessmen, from your teenage brother to your grandmother!

This is why we shouldn't get any tattoos. Our bodies are like an old, precious cathedral owned by Jesus himself, we have no right to paint it according to our own ideas, even if we have the very best intentions.

“Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.” - 1 Cor 6:19-20

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Sprayed graffiti is one thing and stained glass another. There is a place for art in church, traditionally speaking.

 

[faroukfarouk]

1 Cor. 6.19-20 is often quoted to 'prov'e that faith based tattoos are proscribed in Scripture. The verse does not mention tattoos, of course, and some faith based designed are inked with the specific motive of serving God through witness. Presumably motive counts for something.

 

[Ubuntu]

Sprayed graffiti is one thing and stained glass another. There is a place for art in church, traditionally speaking.

Oh, yes, we totally agree about that! But in the same way as there's a difference between stained glass and a graffiti, there's also a fundamental difference between canvas and naked skin.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Well the context of the verse is specific and isn't about poor decoration

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Oh, yes, we totally agree about that! But in the same way as there's a difference between stained glass and a graffiti, there's also a fundamental difference between canvas and naked skin.

Of course! I would only want one hung on the wall!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Oh, yes, we totally agree about that! But in the same way as there's a difference between stained glass and a graffiti, there's also a fundamental difference between canvas and naked skin.

My wife and I talked in 2014 to a young lady with John 3.16 inked in full on her wrist area. It was her favorite verse of the Bible, and mine also. I'm sure other conversations have also arisen as a result of her faith based tattoo.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Of course! I would only want one hung on the wall!

BornAgainBrian: Did you say you were planning more ink?

 

[BornAgainBrian]

BornAgainBrian: Did you say you were planning more ink?

Probably at some point. Not sure when though

 

[faroukfarouk]

Probably at some point. Not sure when though

Faith based, maybe? placement has a lot to do with it, of course.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Faith based, maybe? placement has a lot to do with it, of course.

Certainly faith based. I'm going to be learning Arabic and once I feel I've attained sufficient proficiency, I may choose a Bible verse or the like in that language. I'll see when the time comes. Regardless, it would be placed so that I could cover it if need be.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Certainly faith based. I'm going to be learning Arabic and once I feel I've attained sufficient proficiency, I may choose a Bible verse or the like in that language. I'll see when the time comes. Regardless, it would be placed so that I could cover it if need be.

Do you still have space on your arms, for instance?

They can be easily covered or uncovered, of course.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Do you still have space on your arms, for instance?

They can be easily covered or uncovered, of course.

Oh plenty of space. I'm not all that covered... not yet at least.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

There is indeed a slippery slope to be avoided, but there are also gray areas, as Romans 14 makes clear. I would humbly suggest that faith based tattoos may fall into such gray areas.

once again God has no gray areas, right or wrong black or white. LOL, on judgement day are you going to look at God and say, that was a gray area

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

TATTOO: THE BLOODY TRUTH

One of the oldest and most common satanic practices is cutting of the flesh or blood-letting. The term "blood-letting" originates from the word "let" – "to allow to pass, go or come"; hence "blood-letting" literally means to allow the blood to come, or pass.

Throughout history the cutting of the flesh and blood-letting are rituals performed to unleash demonic and supernatural powers. Because the "life of the flesh is in the blood" [Leviticus 17:11], the blood is highly valued in the occult as the "power source". And by releasing or letting the blood or the "power source" – supernatural power is unleashed.

The Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, writes of the power of the blood and it’s connection to Satanism and the occult.

"BLOOD (occult; Satanism). The vitalizing or life-giving agent used in the sacrament of the BLACK MASS. Blood is believed to provide power and life and therefore plays a central part in ritualistic sacrifices."
(George A. Mather and Larry A. Nichols, Dictionary of Cults, Sects, Religions and the Occult, p.40)
The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft, says of the blood-letting ritual, "Blood that is let is believed to unleash power". By the way, some modern tattoo artists perform rituals during their tattoo procedure in order to unleash supernatural power. Some even lick the flowing blood bubbling from the tattoo.

"blood: Called the "river of life", blood is identified with the soul and is the vehicle that carries the vital energy of the universe through the body. In magic, blood is revered and feared for the miraculous power it possesses and confers. Blood that is let is believed to unleash power."
(Guiley, Rosemary Ellen, The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft, second edition, p. 26)
The Word of God in 1 Kings 18 gives a detailed and perverse example of blood-letting by Satanists (aka prophets of Baal) attempting to unleash supernatural power and ignite the fire for the sacrifice.

25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.
26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
(1 Kings 18:25-28)
Notice how 1 Kings 18:28 describes this devil-worshipping, self-mutilation, blood-release act – ". . . after their manner. ." In other words, this "blood-letting" was common practice among the prophets of the devil. Blood-letting was a familiar ritual among the prophets of Baal.

It’s also evident from other scriptures that cutting of the flesh or blood-letting was common practice among the pagan, wicked nations.

In Leviticus 21:5 and Deuteronomy 14:1, the Lord condemns such demonic practices.

5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.
6 They shall be holy unto their God, and not profane the name of their God: for the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and the bread of their God, they do offer: therefore they shall be holy.
(Leviticus 21:5-6)
Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
(Deuteronomy 14:1)

BLOOD-LETTING AND DEMON POSSESSION

Mark chapter 5 contains the familiar account of the devil-possessed man of Gadera. Notice in verse 5, among the demonic acts, and a tell-tale sign of possession – cutting himself with stones.

1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
(Mark 5:1-9)
It’s also interesting that this "cutting himself with stones" was associated with a man possessed not with one, but legions or many devils. Luke describes the same account as ". . . a certain man, which had devils long time. . ."

"And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs."
(Luke 8:27)
The morbid practice of cutting oneself and blood-letting has a long and dark history in the demonic pages of satanism, demonism and the occult.

Under the definition of "Satanism", the highly-acclaimed, Encyclopedia of American Religions, lists among the activities performed by Satanists is "blood letting":

"In this branch of Satanism,. . . one can expect to find those individuals engaged in grave robbery, sexual assaults and the ritual blood letting. . ."
(Melton, Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, 3rd Edition, Gale Research Ltd., 1989, p. 145)
An article in The Independent newspaper, acknowledges the pathway from blood-letting to satanism found on web sites aimed toward children.

"The Association of Teachers and Lecturers said the popularity of children's programmes and books featuring witchcraft could encourage children to search for sinister material on the internet. Researchers for the union found websites promoting satanism, blood-letting and wicca (witch). . . One website found by the union describes in detail how to carry out blood-letting and blood drinking. . ."
(Buffy 'prompting pupils to access the occult", Ben Russell, Education Correspondent, The Independent, April 22, 2000, "Buffy 'prompting pupils to access the occult'")
In 1996, the satanic, Kentucky vampire cult led by the self-acclaimed 500-year-old vampire and satanist, teenager Rod Ferrell brutally murdered two people. Ferrell began his dark journey of blood, satanism, vampirism and murder by walking around cemeteries at nigh, cutting himself and practicing blood-letting.
("Vampire Cult Slaying Case," Court TV [Online]. www.courttv.com/verdicts/vampire.html)
TATTOO: A TRAIL OF BLOOD-LETTING

There’s no question that tattoos originated from the satanic ritual of blood-letting and cutting of the flesh as described in 1 Kings 18.

In fact, in Leviticus chapter 19 verse 28, where the Lord clearly condemns the tattoo, "Ye shall not make any . . . print any marks upon you." Notice what else is included in the same verse. . . Obviously, by the context, the Lord connects the forbidden "marks" or tattoo, – "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh. . ." (more on Leviticus 19:28 later)

"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."
(Leviticus 19:28)
TATTOO: AND THE BLOOD FLOWS

Perhaps it would be a good time to give a few brief descriptions of the tattoo procedure. May I remind you again, these are all from pro-tattoo resources.

"Early people cut open their skin and rubbed soot into the wounds to mark themselves. They punctured their skin with the bones and teeth of animals."
(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p. 28)
"You’ll see little drops of blood emerge from the freshly tattooed spot. . . How much you bleed has a lot to do with your personal physiology as well as outside factors (like the presence of alcohol in your bloodstream, which can make you bleed like a stuck pig). Usually your blood will coagulate within a few minutes, clotting up the tiny punctures that have been made. . .
When your tattoo is finished, the artist will clean it gently with an alcohol/water solution. Once that dries and little blood bubbles have ceased rising to the surface, the artist may want to snap a few photos of your piece."
(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, pp. 97,98,99)
"The tattooist guides the tattoo machine over the skin. He or she stops the needle every minute or so to wipe the blood and ink clean. The amounts of bleeding and pain in the tattoo process differ according to each person. . . After the first two hours, remove the bandage and wash away any collected or dried blood."
(Bonnie B. Graves, Tattooing and body piercing, p. 22, 24)
"As soon as he stops working with the needle, the sailor’s skin send up its blood beads. . . the eagle’s eye reddens but there is now no telling blood from ink. . . Carmey floods the flesh behind the eagle with red and the finished eagle poises on a red sky, born and baptized in the blood of it’s owner."
(Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 19)
"The reasons why puncturing the skin should be regarded with some degree of awe are not far to seek, for in the first place, there is the drawing of blood, which to the savage world over is full of significance as a rejuvenating and immortalizing factor. There is in addition the opening of numerous inlets for evil to enter."
([Hambly Wilfrid D. 1925. The History of Tattooing and its Significance, p. 233] (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 162)

Rolling Stone magazine gives a first-hand description of the blood-letting tattoo procedure:
"Evan Seinfeld, the bassist for Biohazrd, sits in the chair, offers his hand and waits for the bleeding to began. . . The instrument whirs to life, humming across Seinfeld's hand, creating a vibrating pool of blood and ink."
(Rolling Stone, March 28, 2002, p. 40)
Beware – the tattoo procedure is a fashion of the satanic practice of blood-letting or cutting of ones flesh. Rubbing a little ink or pigment in it doesn’t change the fact – you are cutting your flesh – you are practicing blood-letting.

Don’t take my word for it. Here’s what the pro-tattoo, historians write:

By far, the most extensive work ever published on tattoos was Dr. W.D. Hambly’s, The History of Tattooing And It's Significance. Author Steve Gilbert, in his popular Tattoo History: A Source Book, writes, "Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting. . ."

"Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next."
(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158)
Did you also notice in the above quote, that Hambly also concluded that tattoos were "associated with religious practices"? Hmmm. . . Now I wonder what kind of "religious practices" would practice "blood-letting"? Hint. . . If you forgot, go back and read 1 Kings 18.

There’s no doubt that the cutting and marking of one’s skin [tattooing] is connected to and associated with the satanic and demonic practice of blood-letting.

Author Gilbert again links the tattoo to blood-letting, and magic. And even gives an enlightening and frightening description of a modern day blood-letting, blood-licking, satanic, tattoo procedure. Notice, the connection to the demonic "spiritual manifestations".

"In northwest Alaska, traditional practices of tattoo and ritually induced bleeding were often related and may have even overlapped to some extent. Around Bering Strait, shamans commonly performed bloodletting to relieve aching or inflamed parts of the body. Nelson watched a shaman ‘lancing the scalp of his little girl’s head, the long, thin iron point of the instrument being thrust twelve to fifteen times between the scalp and skull [which is the identical technique for tattooing] . . It is plausible that the release of blood functioned to appease various ills and spiritual manifestations. For instance, several St. Lawrence Islanders explained to me the importance of licking the blood that was released during tattoo ‘operations’."
(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 181)
May I again remind you – all this information and documentation are from books promoting and glorifying the tattoo! These are not Christian authors writing with any anti-tattoo slant. But this is hard, documented facts from tattoo artists, tattoo historians and people who endorse tattoos.

You can try to justify and close your eyes to the documented FACTS – but the FACT is – the tattoo is clearly connected to satanic blood-letting.

And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
1 Kings 18:28
And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Mark 5:6

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2 Corinthians 2:11

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Leviticus 19:28King James Version (KJV)

28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

 

[faroukfarouk]

once again God has no gray areas, right or wrong black or white. LOL, on judgement day are you going to look at God and say, that was a gray area

A reading of Romans 14 clearly shows that there are indeed gray areas, and things which some Christians might honestly do and others honestly not do.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Leviticus 19:28King James Version (KJV)

28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

...and the previous verse seems to say about not trimming beards. How many preachers shave? and backhandedly acknowledge that New Testament Christians are not Jews in the land under the law?