It is not my thread and my opinion is not the issue! I am merely posting what has been put forth by other's as a reply to the question posed by the thread starter.
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Are the three one?
- Thread starter foxybrown
- Start date
1) Chemical Rays: Invisible, neither seen or felt. A "type" of the Father
2) Light Rays: Seen, but not felt. A "type" of the Son.
3) Heat Rays: Felt, but not seen. A "type" of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps the Best I have seen yet!
2) Light Rays: Seen, but not felt. A "type" of the Son.
3) Heat Rays: Felt, but not seen. A "type" of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps the Best I have seen yet!
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endure
Well-Known Member
people have taught for ages that gods ways are not our ways and that his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and that he is god and we are man, and we cannot comprehend him or many other things.
i truely do beleive that there is more to god, than we know or may ever know, even in immortal bodies and higher minds free from curruption.
but i do not agree that this means we cannot simply understand the things he told us or attempted to tell us. or else he, the only and all wise god, would jave known to not have bothered telling us anyway.
how can am omnipotent God, not be able to clearly express himself in understandable ways?to us or any kind of being corrupt or incorrupt bodily, he would not be omnipotent if such was true.
jesus said "hear and understand"
he even rebuked many people for lacking understanding.
and said that those who lack understanding were simply closing their eyes to the truth, stubborn people whos hearts had waxed gross.
paul said the things that are unseen, are clearly understood by the
things that are seen.
peter said that those who "rest" the scripture becuase they are hard to be understood, do so to their own destruction.
jesus said that it had been given to the disciple and all reasonable fair minded christians to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heavon.
so it is clear what the bible teaches about understanding theology of the bible. it is given for us to understand and to know all things that are given to us to know and people are rebuked for their lack of fruit when they are fruitless and have no understanding. not a skillful man, rightly interpreting the word of God.
people say, we simply can not do that becuase we are in the flesh and our minds are not able.
but, paul prayed in ephesians that the church would receive the absolute "fullness" of God.
jesus said that those who beleive in him would do everything he did and more.
we are promised time after time that we can pray for anything we desire and receive it if we have faith, can we not pray for understanding?
the bible says that the "holyspirit, helpeth our infirmities"
the weaknesses in our lives, morals, minds, strength.
it is clear, that everyplace were humans lack, god has made a way to divinely fill up that lack.
jesus ended his work, and he said to the disciples that he was leaving earth and going to sit at the right hand of god, and left them to carry on his work, to continue what he had started.
if Jesus expects us to continue his work, surely has made us able to do all that he did, or else he has laid a burden upon mens shoulders that we can never bear, would jesus have done this?
certainly not.
if we can do what he did, that includes understanding, on the same level he understood.
just as paul prayed that we might receive the very "fullness of god".
that is a bold and seemingly blasphemous thing to say to this generation, but we do have access to all of God.
though i agree, there are somethings that not even Jesus knew, like the day of the lords return. but these are things we have no need to know.
i beleive the trinity is very simple to be understood.
three in one. one meaning unity.
three beings, working in unity with each other forming a godhead.
we see all through the bible of jesus, the father, and the holyspirit, working with, and apart from each other.
are we to throw away the literal and rational interpretation, for something that simply boggles the mind and makes the word of God into something that no one can ever understand?
surely that wasnt what God intended it to be.
i agree, there are things we dont know, because we have no need to know them at this point in time.
but when god speaks to us, sure he means for us to understand. and surly he has given us the ability.
people have made the bible into a spiritualised volume of stories and sayings that seem nice, but can never be understood.
they rest the scripture, to their own destruction.
but god spoke to a rational, literal, common sense living being, man.
and he intended it to be understood. so surely he spoke in our language.
if i was to say the things god said, no one would attempt to look for a spiritual, hidden, dark meaning to my words, but they would take each word literal, and me to be true or false, for i dont talk that way when im simply having conversation and wanting to convey a message that i intend to be clearly understood.
and god doesnt either.
i truely do beleive that there is more to god, than we know or may ever know, even in immortal bodies and higher minds free from curruption.
but i do not agree that this means we cannot simply understand the things he told us or attempted to tell us. or else he, the only and all wise god, would jave known to not have bothered telling us anyway.
how can am omnipotent God, not be able to clearly express himself in understandable ways?to us or any kind of being corrupt or incorrupt bodily, he would not be omnipotent if such was true.
jesus said "hear and understand"
he even rebuked many people for lacking understanding.
and said that those who lack understanding were simply closing their eyes to the truth, stubborn people whos hearts had waxed gross.
paul said the things that are unseen, are clearly understood by the
things that are seen.
peter said that those who "rest" the scripture becuase they are hard to be understood, do so to their own destruction.
jesus said that it had been given to the disciple and all reasonable fair minded christians to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heavon.
so it is clear what the bible teaches about understanding theology of the bible. it is given for us to understand and to know all things that are given to us to know and people are rebuked for their lack of fruit when they are fruitless and have no understanding. not a skillful man, rightly interpreting the word of God.
people say, we simply can not do that becuase we are in the flesh and our minds are not able.
but, paul prayed in ephesians that the church would receive the absolute "fullness" of God.
jesus said that those who beleive in him would do everything he did and more.
we are promised time after time that we can pray for anything we desire and receive it if we have faith, can we not pray for understanding?
the bible says that the "holyspirit, helpeth our infirmities"
the weaknesses in our lives, morals, minds, strength.
it is clear, that everyplace were humans lack, god has made a way to divinely fill up that lack.
jesus ended his work, and he said to the disciples that he was leaving earth and going to sit at the right hand of god, and left them to carry on his work, to continue what he had started.
if Jesus expects us to continue his work, surely has made us able to do all that he did, or else he has laid a burden upon mens shoulders that we can never bear, would jesus have done this?
certainly not.
if we can do what he did, that includes understanding, on the same level he understood.
just as paul prayed that we might receive the very "fullness of god".
that is a bold and seemingly blasphemous thing to say to this generation, but we do have access to all of God.
though i agree, there are somethings that not even Jesus knew, like the day of the lords return. but these are things we have no need to know.
i beleive the trinity is very simple to be understood.
three in one. one meaning unity.
three beings, working in unity with each other forming a godhead.
we see all through the bible of jesus, the father, and the holyspirit, working with, and apart from each other.
are we to throw away the literal and rational interpretation, for something that simply boggles the mind and makes the word of God into something that no one can ever understand?
surely that wasnt what God intended it to be.
i agree, there are things we dont know, because we have no need to know them at this point in time.
but when god speaks to us, sure he means for us to understand. and surly he has given us the ability.
people have made the bible into a spiritualised volume of stories and sayings that seem nice, but can never be understood.
they rest the scripture, to their own destruction.
but god spoke to a rational, literal, common sense living being, man.
and he intended it to be understood. so surely he spoke in our language.
if i was to say the things god said, no one would attempt to look for a spiritual, hidden, dark meaning to my words, but they would take each word literal, and me to be true or false, for i dont talk that way when im simply having conversation and wanting to convey a message that i intend to be clearly understood.
and god doesnt either.
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endure
Well-Known Member
but when god did speak in parables to us, he plainly told us so, or made it very clear that was doing such, or left no possible way to take it literally.
but for the most part, take it literally.
and do no not fail to study long and diligently and the scripture will harmonise.
it is only when you seek to spiritualise the scripture, that you make large wholes and shadowy places, making it something that cannot be understood rationally.
but for the most part, take it literally.
and do no not fail to study long and diligently and the scripture will harmonise.
it is only when you seek to spiritualise the scripture, that you make large wholes and shadowy places, making it something that cannot be understood rationally.
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endure
Well-Known Member
humans, even in very imature and ignorant states of being,
have the ability to clearly convey the message they intend to speak, in ways it can be fully understood.
are we to think that we humans can surpass God in any area of our lives? surely he can do all that we can, and much more.
have the ability to clearly convey the message they intend to speak, in ways it can be fully understood.
are we to think that we humans can surpass God in any area of our lives? surely he can do all that we can, and much more.
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I've gotten to the point where I simply tell a person who asks to ask the Holy Spirit for revelation. Beyond simply making a statement of fact that the three are one, I don't know that there is a way to fully explain it. In human terms, it just doesn't make sense. In heavenly terms, it makes perfect sense.
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Are the three one?
I'm from the other camp. I beleive in one God, who walked amoung us in the flesh as Jesus.
If any were to take a few months and really study the oneness of God from my perspective (Oneness) and really look at what trinitarians think are contradictions, then you'd find that there isn't any contradictions in the Oneness doctrine.
I'm not here to debate oneness or trinnity. I'm placing a challenge to all. If you love His word, then you'll study for the truth looking at both issues from both sides. You owe it to yourself and to God to fully study. In other words, what a trinitarian says about Oneness is not the same as what a oneness says about Oneness.
I'm from the other camp. I beleive in one God, who walked amoung us in the flesh as Jesus.
If any were to take a few months and really study the oneness of God from my perspective (Oneness) and really look at what trinitarians think are contradictions, then you'd find that there isn't any contradictions in the Oneness doctrine.
I'm not here to debate oneness or trinnity. I'm placing a challenge to all. If you love His word, then you'll study for the truth looking at both issues from both sides. You owe it to yourself and to God to fully study. In other words, what a trinitarian says about Oneness is not the same as what a oneness says about Oneness.
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"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" (Deut. 6:4)
"See now that I, even I am he, and there is no god with me" (Deut.32:39)
"What commandment is first of all?" "The first...is, Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29)
Now, I understand that most people who believe in the Trinity use Matt. 28:19 as a scripture to prove their belief in a triune Godhead. However, that scripture is mearly referring to God by three TITLES, it is not saying that there are three gods.
Just like a mother has many titles...she is a mother, a wife, perhaps a sister, and a daughter. However that doesn't make ther three or four separate people.
Note:
I am not trying to upset anyone, I'm just voicing my opinion.
"See now that I, even I am he, and there is no god with me" (Deut.32:39)
"What commandment is first of all?" "The first...is, Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29)
Now, I understand that most people who believe in the Trinity use Matt. 28:19 as a scripture to prove their belief in a triune Godhead. However, that scripture is mearly referring to God by three TITLES, it is not saying that there are three gods.
Just like a mother has many titles...she is a mother, a wife, perhaps a sister, and a daughter. However that doesn't make ther three or four separate people.
Note:
I am not trying to upset anyone, I'm just voicing my opinion.
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paulewog
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The Bible gives a lot of evidence for the Trinity. Even the Deuteronomy passage above speaks of the Trinity, though I do not know what translation that was.. I memorized it from the KJV I think, and it says, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One." There are different words for "Lord" and "God" and "Lord," and then to top it all off, "One" is used as a word referring, for example, to a basket of apples - one basket, but many apples inside the basket (a "plural" one, so to speak... there are two words for "one")
As to the mother/wife/sister/daughter thing, that doesn't make sense. Who was Jesus praying to when He prayed to "the Father" then
As to how God can be "3 in 1" I don't know, and I can't attempt to explain it, and no illustration (whether it is an apple, a clover, a triangle, etc) does it justice by any means. It's quite simply incomprehensible.... sorta like, how can God know everyting past, present, and future. =D That's kinda hard for me to grasp too, hehe
As to the mother/wife/sister/daughter thing, that doesn't make sense. Who was Jesus praying to when He prayed to "the Father" then
As to how God can be "3 in 1" I don't know, and I can't attempt to explain it, and no illustration (whether it is an apple, a clover, a triangle, etc) does it justice by any means. It's quite simply incomprehensible.... sorta like, how can God know everyting past, present, and future. =D That's kinda hard for me to grasp too, hehe
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paulewog
Father of Insanity; Child of Music.
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Oh, another thing I forgot If you really want to see the Trinity, read Genesis. For example, when God created Man... God "talks" and says, "Let US CREATE man in OUR IMAGE"
Us is plural, create is singular, "our" is plural, but IMAGE is singular....
It's very interesting, hehe
If you really want to see the Trinity, read Genesis. For example, when God created Man... God "talks" and says, "Let US CREATE man in OUR IMAGE"Us is plural, create is singular, "our" is plural, but IMAGE is singular....
It's very interesting, hehe
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If the doctrine of the Trinity is infact true and biblical, why then is the word "Trinity" and their doctrine not found in the Bible?
The absolute Oneness of God is manifest and preserved in the absolute Diety of Jesus Christ. God in Christ, or God as man. To know Christ is to know God...because they are one.
His name is Yahweh, meaning our Lord is ONE!
God who revealed himself in the Old Testament as Jehovah revealed himself in His Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus was and is God. In other words, Jesus is the one true God MANIFESTED in flesh, for in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Scripture ref.: John 1:1-14; I Timothy 3:16; Colossians 2:9)
God is a Spirit (Jn. 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation. HE IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST, and BESIDE HIM THERE IS NO GOD. (Isaiah 44:6) Jesus is: the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matt. 1:23), the creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17), God with us (Matt. 1:23)...
"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (Jn. 14:7-11)
"I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" (Jn. 10:30)
The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead but rather the spirit of God, the Spirit of the resurrected Christ.
To touch on singular and plural: Trinitarians believe that Matt. 28:19 is saying to baptize in the "Trinitarian mode of baptism". However that scripture clearly says: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." Note that this scripture uses name in the singular. It does not say "in the names...". It says name, singular and that name is JESUS.
Also, "Lord", "God" and "Lord" in Deut. 6:4 God = LORD = Jehovah
The absolute Oneness of God is manifest and preserved in the absolute Diety of Jesus Christ. God in Christ, or God as man. To know Christ is to know God...because they are one.
His name is Yahweh, meaning our Lord is ONE!
God who revealed himself in the Old Testament as Jehovah revealed himself in His Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus was and is God. In other words, Jesus is the one true God MANIFESTED in flesh, for in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Scripture ref.: John 1:1-14; I Timothy 3:16; Colossians 2:9)
God is a Spirit (Jn. 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation. HE IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST, and BESIDE HIM THERE IS NO GOD. (Isaiah 44:6) Jesus is: the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matt. 1:23), the creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17), God with us (Matt. 1:23)...
"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (Jn. 14:7-11)
"I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" (Jn. 10:30)
The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead but rather the spirit of God, the Spirit of the resurrected Christ.
To touch on singular and plural: Trinitarians believe that Matt. 28:19 is saying to baptize in the "Trinitarian mode of baptism". However that scripture clearly says: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." Note that this scripture uses name in the singular. It does not say "in the names...". It says name, singular and that name is JESUS.
Also, "Lord", "God" and "Lord" in Deut. 6:4 God = LORD = Jehovah
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endure
Well-Known Member
the holyspirit, is the ressurected spirit of jesus?
then how was jesus, annointed by his own spirit?
the holyspirit anointed jesus.
jesus even said that he would SEND ANOTHER....the spirit.
he didnt say he would return, he said that he would stay in heavon and that ANOTHER would come in his place.
this really cant mean the holyspirit is jesus or that he is the spirit of jesus.
how could the holyspirit be the spirit of jesus if jesus said that you could blaspheme jesus and be forgiven, but you could not blaspheme the holyspirit and be forgiven.
meaning these are 2 individuals and not the same person.
becuase they are unalike in extreme ways. they have diffrent dealings with man.
jesus and the father could not be the same person.
becuase of too many diffrences between them and their work together if its looked upon in common sense, it shows they are not the same person.
jesus prayed to the father.
jesus stated that his own will had to be put in submission to the fathers will.
jesus said that he was not "good" but the father is good.
jesus said the father knows the day of his return, but he himself does not know.
jesus said he did everything the father told him to do.
jesus said that he could not testify of himself, but that the father testified for him.
jesus cried out to the father, becuase the father forsook him.
we have written conversations between the father and the son.
the father was pleased with the son.
and many many more.
but this goes to show that the normal thinking person would look at these references and see that jesus and the father are 2 diffrent persons, working together.
how could they possibly be the same person, or the same whatever you think they are, if they have diffrent wills, diffrent levels of knowlegde, diffrent levels of independence, etc.
they are very diffrent, they are not the same.
in genesis we read of them talking together.
...let US make man in OUR image...
the godhead consists of 3 members.
the hebrew word for "God" is elohim is a uniplural noun meaning "GODS" and is translated so 239 times.
it is the plural form of eloah meaning "diety" and god.
the word elohim is sometimes used in connection with plural verbs and pronouns such as
gen 35.7
"...there the Gods, THEY APPEARED unto him..."
and sometimes plural pronouns are used by God in reffering to the diffrent members of the godhead.
such as
gen 1.26, 3.22, 11.7
"us"
gen 1.26, john 14.23
"our"
john 14.23, 17.11, 22
"we"
ps 2.3
"their"
first second and third personal pronouns are used hundreds of times in scripture of one, two, or three persons in the diety.
in john 17 alone jesus uses 162 pronouns speaking TO and OF his father.
the ONE God does not refer to one person, or one member, but one in unity.
and sometimes one speaks of himself representing all 3.
when jesus said he was in the father and the father was in him.
he did not mean they were the same person, he also said that the disciples were in him and he in them.
it is speaking of unity. this is not speaking of being the same person.
when jesus said those that had seen him had seen the father he was not saying they were the same person, but that he was so unity with him that he was a perfect picture of him.
when jesus told them that seeing him was seeing the father he proved it by stating this truth.
"...i am in the father, and the father in me, the words i speak unto you i speak not of myself, but the father that dwells in me, he doeth the works..."
he proved what he meant by stating that his words, were not his own words, but the fathers words, and it was not his power, but the fathers power.
he was saying the words were the fathers words, the power seen is the fathers power, thats why seeing him is seeing the father.
not that they were the same person.
not that he was the father.
becuase he clearly said that those words were the fathers AND NOT HIS OWN. and the one who was doing the work was the father AND NOT HIMSELF.
it clearly shows the unity of the 2 diffrent beings.
how could the holyspirit, be the spirit of jesus, if they have both been seen in two diffrent places at the same time?
the holyspirit descended upon jesus, the holyspirit came down from heavon to jesus, it was not jesus.
a voice came down from heavon to jesus, the voice was not jesus' voice.
another thing, john the baptist did not know jesus untill he met him.
but he did know the father....
how could this be if they are the same person?
how could jesus be filled at any certain time with himself?
jesus was filled with the holyspirit, how could be ever be filled by himself?
he would have always had all of the holyspirit if your theory is true, but this is not biblical.
jesus was led, filled, descended upon, used by, concieved by, and many other things by the holyspirit.
how could anyone only read the scripture and possibly think they are the same person, or that the holyspirit is the spirit of jesus?
there is much more i could say but i wont, i dont see how anyone could say they are the same person.
if the bible truely teaches this, then the bible can never be clearly understood, if this cannot be clearly understood, why even read any of it?
if it is this confusing?
many people dont even bother to have debate on such subjects becuase they think "well never know untill we get to heavon" they dont think anyone can understand all the scripture, if this is true, then i am deathly afriad. becuase one day this same word will judge us, i fear being judged by something i could have never understood, this is extremely unfair.
the word of god is clear and understandable.
then how was jesus, annointed by his own spirit?
the holyspirit anointed jesus.
jesus even said that he would SEND ANOTHER....the spirit.
he didnt say he would return, he said that he would stay in heavon and that ANOTHER would come in his place.
this really cant mean the holyspirit is jesus or that he is the spirit of jesus.
how could the holyspirit be the spirit of jesus if jesus said that you could blaspheme jesus and be forgiven, but you could not blaspheme the holyspirit and be forgiven.
meaning these are 2 individuals and not the same person.
becuase they are unalike in extreme ways. they have diffrent dealings with man.
jesus and the father could not be the same person.
becuase of too many diffrences between them and their work together if its looked upon in common sense, it shows they are not the same person.
jesus prayed to the father.
jesus stated that his own will had to be put in submission to the fathers will.
jesus said that he was not "good" but the father is good.
jesus said the father knows the day of his return, but he himself does not know.
jesus said he did everything the father told him to do.
jesus said that he could not testify of himself, but that the father testified for him.
jesus cried out to the father, becuase the father forsook him.
we have written conversations between the father and the son.
the father was pleased with the son.
and many many more.
but this goes to show that the normal thinking person would look at these references and see that jesus and the father are 2 diffrent persons, working together.
how could they possibly be the same person, or the same whatever you think they are, if they have diffrent wills, diffrent levels of knowlegde, diffrent levels of independence, etc.
they are very diffrent, they are not the same.
in genesis we read of them talking together.
...let US make man in OUR image...
the godhead consists of 3 members.
the hebrew word for "God" is elohim is a uniplural noun meaning "GODS" and is translated so 239 times.
it is the plural form of eloah meaning "diety" and god.
the word elohim is sometimes used in connection with plural verbs and pronouns such as
gen 35.7
"...there the Gods, THEY APPEARED unto him..."
and sometimes plural pronouns are used by God in reffering to the diffrent members of the godhead.
such as
gen 1.26, 3.22, 11.7
"us"
gen 1.26, john 14.23
"our"
john 14.23, 17.11, 22
"we"
ps 2.3
"their"
first second and third personal pronouns are used hundreds of times in scripture of one, two, or three persons in the diety.
in john 17 alone jesus uses 162 pronouns speaking TO and OF his father.
the ONE God does not refer to one person, or one member, but one in unity.
and sometimes one speaks of himself representing all 3.
when jesus said he was in the father and the father was in him.
he did not mean they were the same person, he also said that the disciples were in him and he in them.
it is speaking of unity. this is not speaking of being the same person.
when jesus said those that had seen him had seen the father he was not saying they were the same person, but that he was so unity with him that he was a perfect picture of him.
when jesus told them that seeing him was seeing the father he proved it by stating this truth.
"...i am in the father, and the father in me, the words i speak unto you i speak not of myself, but the father that dwells in me, he doeth the works..."
he proved what he meant by stating that his words, were not his own words, but the fathers words, and it was not his power, but the fathers power.
he was saying the words were the fathers words, the power seen is the fathers power, thats why seeing him is seeing the father.
not that they were the same person.
not that he was the father.
becuase he clearly said that those words were the fathers AND NOT HIS OWN. and the one who was doing the work was the father AND NOT HIMSELF.
it clearly shows the unity of the 2 diffrent beings.
how could the holyspirit, be the spirit of jesus, if they have both been seen in two diffrent places at the same time?
the holyspirit descended upon jesus, the holyspirit came down from heavon to jesus, it was not jesus.
a voice came down from heavon to jesus, the voice was not jesus' voice.
another thing, john the baptist did not know jesus untill he met him.
but he did know the father....
how could this be if they are the same person?
how could jesus be filled at any certain time with himself?
jesus was filled with the holyspirit, how could be ever be filled by himself?
he would have always had all of the holyspirit if your theory is true, but this is not biblical.
jesus was led, filled, descended upon, used by, concieved by, and many other things by the holyspirit.
how could anyone only read the scripture and possibly think they are the same person, or that the holyspirit is the spirit of jesus?
there is much more i could say but i wont, i dont see how anyone could say they are the same person.
if the bible truely teaches this, then the bible can never be clearly understood, if this cannot be clearly understood, why even read any of it?
if it is this confusing?
many people dont even bother to have debate on such subjects becuase they think "well never know untill we get to heavon" they dont think anyone can understand all the scripture, if this is true, then i am deathly afriad. becuase one day this same word will judge us, i fear being judged by something i could have never understood, this is extremely unfair.
the word of god is clear and understandable.
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paulewog
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As far as I know, many words that explain our thelogies are not in the Bible. Just because the word we use to explain the doctrine isn't in the Bible doesn't mean the Bible supports it.
Yes, it's very interesting that it says "in the name of..." and then lists 3 persons. Notice at Jesus' baptism by John, there was the dove, there was Jesus, and there was the Father. Who were all of those three people if not the Trinity?
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The Holy Spirit is not the resurrected spirit of Jesus Christ. Jesus is Jesus, the Spirit is the Spirit and the Father is the Father. They are three and yet One. We can't really claim to fully comprehend how, but then, that's true of many things in our world.
I can say that we are "three in one" beings....body, soul and spirit. I believe that's why God says we are created in His image. We cannot function separately but that's why God is God and we are not God. We are in His image, but not exactly the same as Him.
I can say that we are "three in one" beings....body, soul and spirit. I believe that's why God says we are created in His image. We cannot function separately but that's why God is God and we are not God. We are in His image, but not exactly the same as Him.
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Trinity....is not in the bible, it s a doctrine!
The FATHER is GOD and is above ALL, in ALL, and through ALL!
JESUS is the SON of GOD (The FATHER).
The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT OF GOD (THe FATHER).
They are both a PART of God (The FATHER).
THE FATHER IS GOD and everthing else has come from GOD THE FATHER!
In John 17:1-3
Jesus is praying to God (The FATHER) saying "And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONE TRUE GOD.......AND........ JESUS CHRIST.. who Thou has sent.
Everything that Jesus is, was given to Him by God (The FATHER)!
His title.... as THE SON OF GOD, THE NAME ABOVE EVERY OTHER, THE SAVIOR, etc. was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
His auhority.... was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
The Spirit.....was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
Everything that is, was, and will be comes from GOD (THE FATHER)!
Note: When the scriptures state that they are all 3 one it is refering to them all being in ONE...In agreement!
The FATHER is GOD and is above ALL, in ALL, and through ALL!
JESUS is the SON of GOD (The FATHER).
The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT OF GOD (THe FATHER).
They are both a PART of God (The FATHER).
THE FATHER IS GOD and everthing else has come from GOD THE FATHER!
In John 17:1-3
Jesus is praying to God (The FATHER) saying "And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONE TRUE GOD.......AND........ JESUS CHRIST.. who Thou has sent.
Everything that Jesus is, was given to Him by God (The FATHER)!
His title.... as THE SON OF GOD, THE NAME ABOVE EVERY OTHER, THE SAVIOR, etc. was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
His auhority.... was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
The Spirit.....was given to Him by God (The FATHER)
Everything that is, was, and will be comes from GOD (THE FATHER)!
Note: When the scriptures state that they are all 3 one it is refering to them all being in ONE...In agreement!
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endure
Well-Known Member
warrior fc
what exactly are you saying?
that there is the father, and jesus and the holyspirit are simply parts of him but not seperate beings? that there is one being? and not 3?
if jesus is not a diffrent person from the father, how could jesus' will be diffrent than the fathers as it clearly was when jesus said "not my will but thy will be done?" how could one person have 2 diffrent wills?
if jesus is not a seperate person from the father, how could stephen see jesus standing next to him?
just little things like that make me beleive jesus and the father and the holyspirit are 3 seperate persons.
when the bible says they are ONE it is no more confusing than a husband and wife are ONE when they come together in sexual intercourse, they are ONE but they have never ceased to be 2 diffrent people, it is unity.
jesus being the son of god does not make him a part of the father.
even before jesus' natural birth, we read of conversations between them. how sensible is this if jesus is simply a part of, or a faculty of, or a piece of, or a member or digit of the father?
how could jesus be a part of the father, if jesus was not "GOOD" like the father? jesus was called good, then jesus replied and said that he was not, but only the father.
how could they be so diffrent, yet be the same?
if jesus was simply a part of the father, if he was the father, he would have not needed to say "these things i do not of myself, but of my father"
john the baptist said he knew the father, but he did not know jesus before he met him.
how could this be if they are the same?
in the first psalm. we read of the father, speaking to jesus.
and he says "ask of me, and i will give you the heathen for thy inheritence"
if they are really the same person, if jesus IS the father, why does he need to petition the father for all these things?
and why does he need the father to give them to him, as is clear that he did from the gospels, if he is really the father and they have really always been his and still are if he is the father?
if jesus is the father, why did jesus say "this power is not my power, but it is my fathers" if he really was the father, then there is no meaning to this statement.
if you are teaching that jesus is the father, it really doesnt make sense, or god himself is babbling fool that is not worthy of our time or attention.
if jesus is really the father, then we come to far to many paradoxical conclusions and the word of god can never be clearly understood by man.
you may say "yes" to that statement. that man cant understand gods word.
but why would an all wise god send a message to man that he could never understand?
maybe the fullness of god cant be understood, but that is irrelevant, the words of god spoken to man can always be clearly understood by man.
but if the word cant be clearly understood, as is true if your theory be true, then why do you even attempt to teach anything anyway?
it amases me, people teach things that make the word non-understandable.
what is the point in teaching, if it only leads you farther into confusion and lack of understanding?
what exactly are you saying?
that there is the father, and jesus and the holyspirit are simply parts of him but not seperate beings? that there is one being? and not 3?
if jesus is not a diffrent person from the father, how could jesus' will be diffrent than the fathers as it clearly was when jesus said "not my will but thy will be done?" how could one person have 2 diffrent wills?
if jesus is not a seperate person from the father, how could stephen see jesus standing next to him?
just little things like that make me beleive jesus and the father and the holyspirit are 3 seperate persons.
when the bible says they are ONE it is no more confusing than a husband and wife are ONE when they come together in sexual intercourse, they are ONE but they have never ceased to be 2 diffrent people, it is unity.
jesus being the son of god does not make him a part of the father.
even before jesus' natural birth, we read of conversations between them. how sensible is this if jesus is simply a part of, or a faculty of, or a piece of, or a member or digit of the father?
how could jesus be a part of the father, if jesus was not "GOOD" like the father? jesus was called good, then jesus replied and said that he was not, but only the father.
how could they be so diffrent, yet be the same?
if jesus was simply a part of the father, if he was the father, he would have not needed to say "these things i do not of myself, but of my father"
john the baptist said he knew the father, but he did not know jesus before he met him.
how could this be if they are the same?
in the first psalm. we read of the father, speaking to jesus.
and he says "ask of me, and i will give you the heathen for thy inheritence"
if they are really the same person, if jesus IS the father, why does he need to petition the father for all these things?
and why does he need the father to give them to him, as is clear that he did from the gospels, if he is really the father and they have really always been his and still are if he is the father?
if jesus is the father, why did jesus say "this power is not my power, but it is my fathers" if he really was the father, then there is no meaning to this statement.
if you are teaching that jesus is the father, it really doesnt make sense, or god himself is babbling fool that is not worthy of our time or attention.
if jesus is really the father, then we come to far to many paradoxical conclusions and the word of god can never be clearly understood by man.
you may say "yes" to that statement. that man cant understand gods word.
but why would an all wise god send a message to man that he could never understand?
maybe the fullness of god cant be understood, but that is irrelevant, the words of god spoken to man can always be clearly understood by man.
but if the word cant be clearly understood, as is true if your theory be true, then why do you even attempt to teach anything anyway?
it amases me, people teach things that make the word non-understandable.
what is the point in teaching, if it only leads you farther into confusion and lack of understanding?
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You are not hearing what I wrote! I didn't at all say what you are thinking I said.
Everything that is, including Jesus and The Holy Spirit, has come from God (The Father).
Jesus is the Son OF God. Notice the word "OF" which mean "FROM".
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF God. And again notice the word "OF" which means "FROM".
Now that is why I said that they are "a part of God"
Understand?
And Yes, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are seperate from the Father, They are not "The Father!"
Everything that is, including Jesus and The Holy Spirit, has come from God (The Father).
Jesus is the Son OF God. Notice the word "OF" which mean "FROM".
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF God. And again notice the word "OF" which means "FROM".
Now that is why I said that they are "a part of God"
Understand?
And Yes, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are seperate from the Father, They are not "The Father!"
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They are three but one in spirit. They are one in unity. John 17:11......that they may be one, as we are. In this verse Jesus is praying to the Father that we may be one even as He and the father are one. If one meant the same person then how could the church ever be one? But what Jesus is praying is that we would be one in purpose, one in mind, that we would come together in unity.
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