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Are the Jews saved...

Higher Truth

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DavidHaCohen said:
Well, I use a Chabad Siddur. It's in the Amidah... [size=-1]"Melech Memit Umechayei umiatzmiyach yeshuah" ;-)[/size]

yeshuah (with final hey) is feminine noun, and means salvation
Yeshua is a masculine noun that means "He saves" or "He is salvation"

Keep in mind, that the Messiah was named by an angel sent by The Almighty, and not by an earthly act.
 
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Wags

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DavidHaCohen said:
Actually, the concept of being born again predates Christianity by a wide margin. In Judaism when one converts it is said that the soul made teshuvah to Judaism and therefore was reborn Jewish.

When I read that passage of your New Testament if I think in terms of the religious context of that time I understand Jesus, the Jew, to be saying that Nicodemus needed to do teshuvah. Maybe Nicodemus was someone who thought that his status as a rabbi granted him a special relationship with the Almighty. In Judaism too without repentance one cannot see G-d.

Dave

Good point Dave
 
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Higher Truth

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Wags said:
Good point Dave

Since I have full faith in the Testament, as well as the Testator, I choose to believe what is written, and not what I feel. Let's review some key facts that are written as spoken by the Testator:

John 3

3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.

7 Do not wonder because I said to you, You must be generated from above.

13 And no one has gone up into Heaven, except He having come down out of Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.
14 And even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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stone

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that can be interpretted into several different views, as i have learned from the many various faiths here within christian forums.

Are you saying one must believe in Jesus and Jesus alone? Or, Since jesus is a part of the father, and the father is over all, worshipping the father is the same as worshipping all of father, even his right hand?
 
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Higher Truth

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stone said:
that can be interpretted into several different views, as i have learned from the many various faiths here within christian forums.

Are you saying one must believe in Jesus and Jesus alone? Or, Since jesus is a part of the father, and the father is over all, worshipping the father is the same as worshipping all of father, even his right hand?

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


No High Priest= no intercession. Messiah is the Great High Priest.

So:

No temple+
No High Priest+
No sacrifices= No atonement therefore no release of sin burden.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

I have to go with the Testator, because the heart is deceptive above all things. It is written.
 
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DavidHaCohen

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Higher Truth said:
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

If Jesus is G-d and G-d's salvation, and if I as a Jew confess G-d and confess G-d's salvation, am I still going to be thrown in hell?

No High Priest= no intercession. Messiah is the Great High Priest.

So:

No temple+
No High Priest+
No sacrifices= No atonement therefore no release of sin burden.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

I have to go with the Testator, because the heart is deceptive above all things. It is written.


Curiously, the Temple did exist for a while after Jesus' death. How does that fit your theology? I'm asking an honest question, not challenging you in any way.

Also, let us keep in mind that Torah did say that the Cohen Gadol atoned for all of Israel, not just for those who confessed him. If you did Teshuvah and you were part of Israel, you were atoned for.

So, assuming that you are right and that Jesus is the Cohen Gadol, if I am part of Israel, and if Teshuvah is part of my daily life, how can you say I'm not atoned for?

How could Jesus be a Cohen Gadol and not atone for the sins of all Israel?
Aharon did, and your New Testament says that Jesus is superior to Aharon, right?

So I honestly fail to see the logic behind this. Please bear with me, I'm honestly trying to understand your theology.

Dave
 
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nasa1

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Are the Jews saved by their belief in God? What to you think?:wave:



The moderator is asking this question?


Tishrei, have you ever read the many passages that state that only those that have the Son have life, or that the name of Yeshua is the only name given to men by which we must be saved? Or John 3:16?



Did you ever read the passage in 1st John that says all who deny Yeshua as the Son of G-d are liars and anti-Christs?





NASA
 
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simchat_torah

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Did you ever read the passage in 1st John that says all who deny Yeshua as the Son of G-d are liars and anti-Christs?
[/qoute]Try re-reading that passage. You seem to be remembering it quite incorrectly.
 
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nasa1

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Hello Simchat -


1st John 2

20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.




The Word of God says that all who deny Yeshua as the Son are antiChrists and liars. Think about it!



NASA
 
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A_Pioneer

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The moderator is asking this question?


Tishrei, have you ever read the many passages that state that only those that have the Son have life, or that the name of Yeshua is the only name given to men by which we must be saved? Or John 3:16?



Did you ever read the passage in 1st John that says all who deny Yeshua as the Son of G-d are liars and anti-Christs?





NASA
Just what part of this do you not understand?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Shalom
 
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GeratTzedek

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Hello Simchat -


1st John 2

20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.




The Word of God says that all who deny Yeshua as the Son are antiChrists and liars. Think about it!



NASA
NASA: please clarify your words, as I hope you aren't saying what they seem to say. Are you saying that Jews who don't accept Yeshua as Messiah are all a bunch of liars?
 
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visionary

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Just what part of this do you not understand?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Shalom
Believe on Him... Him is the Father, which they do... .:clap:
 
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Shimshon

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John 8

31 Yeshua therefore said to those Yehudim who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my talmidim. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33 They answered him, "We are Avraham's seed, and have never yet been in bondage to anyone. How do you say, 'You will be made free?'" 34 Yeshua answered them, "Most assuredly I tell you, everyone who commits sin is the bondservant of sin. 35 A bondservant doesn't live in the house forever. A son remains forever. 36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Avraham's seed, yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you.

38 I say the things which I have seen with my Father; and you also do the things which you have seen with your father." 39 They answered him, "Our father is Avraham." Yeshua said to them, "If you were Avraham's children, you would do the works of Avraham. 40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God. Avraham didn't do this. 41 You do the works of your father." They said to him, "We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father, God." 42 Therefore Yeshua said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came forth and have come from God. For neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why don't you understand my speech? Because you can't hear my word. 44 You are of your Father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you don't believe me.

46 Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don't hear, because you are not of God." 48 Then the Yehudim answered him, "Don't we say well that you are a Shomroni, and have a demon?" 49 Yeshua answered, "I don't have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I don't seek my own glory. There is one who seeks and judges.

51 Most assuredly, I tell you, if a person keeps my word, he will never see death." 52 Then the Yehudim said to him, "Now we know that you have a demon. Avraham died, and the prophets; and you say, 'If a man keeps my word, he will never taste of death.' 53 Are you greater than our father, Avraham, who died? The prophets died. Who do you make yourself out to be?" 54 Yeshua answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is our God. 55 You have not known him, but I know him. If I said, 'I don't know him,' I would be like you, a liar. But I know him, and keep his word. 56 Your father Avraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it, and was glad." 57 The Yehudim therefore said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Avraham?" 58 Yeshua said to them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, before Avraham came into existence, I AM." 59 They took up stones therefore to throw at him, but Yeshua was hidden, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
 
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simchat_torah

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31 Yeshua therefore said to those Yehudim who had believed him,
Many look at this passage and see the statement as "who believed him"...
To some, this does not preclude "believing he is the messiah" as some believe he never made any such claim.
To others, this necessarily means believing he is the Messiah.


Shimshon, I have to wonder why you continue posting here too, with all of the evil you speak of CF on Charles' forum? Why do you and Charles subject yourselves to such "evil" (your words) and to "Satan" (your words) and continue posting here?

Curious,
Yafet
 
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Shimshon

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Shimshon, I have to wonder why you continue posting here too, with all of the evil you speak of CF on Charles' forum? Why do you and Charles subject yourselves to such "evil" (your words) and to "Satan" (your words) and continue posting here?

Curious,
Yafet
38 I say the things which I have seen with my Father,..

me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God.

I tell the truth, why do you not believe the words?

Shimshon
 
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