Are sinful thoughts out own?

[Maniel]

Listened to a conversation on YouTube today between two men, one said something that was quite illuminating to me, that many of his thoughts and emotions could be said to be that of demons, and not him exactly, something his priest had told him if I remember correctly. That it made it easy for him to just laugh it all off in a way and return to a good conscience.

Perhaps you guys could share some of your wisdom on this, as I do sometimes find myself quite overwhelmed with the things in my head. Would good theology be, that we're completely free, that these thoughts aren't our own in some sense? Or are they indeed ours, but we're still washed clean by the blood of Jesus? How do you guys 'protect' your conscience and stay joyful? How do you get going, and not let the mood hang downtrodden for too long, after such puzzling thoughts, if they do ever occur to you?

 

[BobRyan]

Listened to a conversation on YouTube today between two men, one said something that was quite illuminating to me, that many of his thoughts and emotions could be said to be that of demons, and not him exactly

true.

Some thoughts are yours,
Some are from darkness
some are from Light, heaven, angels, Holy Spirit

 

[Maniel]

true.

Some thoughts are yours,
Some are from darkness
some are from Light, heaven, angels, Holy Spirit

That's sounds good and more nuanced than my first take. I found it good to be reminded by the same guy also, that good thoughts should be credited to the Holy Spirit, as to not make yourself prideful. Which seems wise.

The reason why I'm asking, is an experience some days ago. I asked a girl out which I thought unreachable and out of my league. She is just fantastic in my eyes. I was so happy when she agreed to meet. And I had a really good time with her, and she agreed for another meeting this upcoming weekend.
But then pride took over my heart, and I felt it was getting too easy, like I could imagine where this might lead. Then I felt shame and laughed at myself for having such unwise and mixed feelings and emotion in the span of a few hours. I get confused and a bit saddened that this could ever occur. I really wish being able to just love unconditionally without all that garbage.
So for that short movement, was it me? (probably was), a short demonic attack? Both? Is it even normal, or might this be the sign of a deeper root problem I should focus on?

 

[RDKirk]

The only spiritual being that can invade your thoughts is the spiritual being that abides within you, and the Holy Spirit does not share His abode.

If you consider yourself a Christian and you think a demon is speaking the thoughts in your head, then you're admitting that you're the abode of a demon, and not the Holy Spirit.

Otherwise, those are thoughts originating in the un-transformed areas of your own mind that you've kept away from the Holy Spirit.

The nuance I would address is that demons on the outside may well know you better than you know yourself, and know how to "push your buttons" because they watched those buttons being installed. They can prod you into thinking certain ways without actually being in your head at all.

 

[Maniel]

The only spiritual being that can invade your thoughts is the spiritual being that abides within you, and the Holy Spirit does not share His abode.

If you consider yourself a Christian and you think a demon is speaking the thoughts in your head, then you're admitting that you're the abode of a demon, and not the Holy Spirit.

Otherwise, those are thoughts originating in the un-transformed areas of your own mind that you've kept away from the Holy Spirit.

The nuance I would address is that demons on the outside may well know you better than you know yourself, and know how to "push your buttons" because they watched those buttons being installed. They can prod you into thinking certain ways without actually being in your head at all.

Thank you for your reply, this seems to make sense, that the Holy Spirit guards us from demons. And that it may be untransformed parts of my flesh.

What do you make of Jesus temptations? And that of Paul, when he says his Spirit is willing but his flesh is weak. All the things he want to do he cannot always. You don't believe that demons can attack the mind under no circumstance as a believer?

 

[RDKirk]

Thank you for your reply, this seems to make sense, that the Holy Spirit guards us from demons. And that it may be untransformed parts of my flesh.

What do you make of Jesus temptations? And that of Paul, when he says his Spirit is willing but his flesh is weak. All the things he want to do he cannot always. You don't believe that demons can attack the mind under no circumstance as a believer?

The temptations of Jesus were not impulses in His own mind. He was confronted by Satan directly in the same way others had been confronted directly by angels like Michael and Gabriel.

Paul very explicitly stated that his problems were within his own flesh and mind...he never said "the devil made me do it." When he did reference a demonic attack, he was also specific to say it was a "thorn in the flesh," not a thought in his head.

 

[St_Worm2]

I do sometimes find myself quite overwhelmed with the things in my head. Would good theology be, that we're completely free, that these thoughts aren't our own in some sense? Or are they indeed ours, but we're still washed clean by the blood of Jesus?

Hello Maniel, one thing is for sure, our thoughts, good or bad, are ours to deal with, to act upon, to ignore, to forcefully reject, etc. The question is how to best discern the good from the bad when the difference isn't immediately obvious to us (or when our feelings are telling us something that simply isn't true).

How do you guys 'protect' your conscience and stay joyful?

1. Scripture (reading/study/memorization/obedience) - growing in the knowledge and understanding of God/His word (so that what is true is immediately discernable from what is not) .. Psalm 1:1-3, 119:9,11; Romans 12:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17
2. Prayer - John 15:7
3. The practice of God's presence in my life throughout the day .. e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
4. Focusing on/delighting myself in God .. e.g. Psalm 37:4
5. Remembering what God did and does for me, as well His great promises .. e.g. John 3:16; Romans 5:8-10, 8:28; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25; Jude 24-25
6. Fellowship w/other believers (including here )
7. There is much more, of course, but I will stop here.

How do you get going, and not let the mood hang downtrodden for too long, after such puzzling thoughts, if they do ever occur to you?

1. Knowing and understanding what God's truth really is, I REJECT ("take captive") any thoughts/feelings that come into my mind that oppose it, again and again and again, when necessary .. 2 Corinthians 10:5. This is one of the reasons that we need to always be increasing our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures.

If you do not take your errant thoughts/feelings "captive" in time, and you end up sinning, there is an ongoing answer/cure for that too .. 1 John 1:9 In any case, the thing to do is to ALWAYS believe and trust God, by taking Him at His very word (no matter what your 'feelings' are telling in the moment). Granted, this can be TOUGH to do, especially at first, but it becomes easier with practice. I also believe that this is the principal way that we 1. steadfastly obey the command that is found in James 4:7 ("resist the devil"), and then 2. receive the wonderful promise from God that goes along with it when we do ("and he will flee from you").

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you may want to take some time to carefully consider all that is said in Ephesians 6:10-17 as well. (as far beginning to obey the following passage goes, start to become more aware of all that is around you and look for things throughout your day, even the smallest of things, to rejoice in and give thanks to God for ).

1 Thessalonians 5​

16 Rejoice always; ​

17 pray without ceasing; ​

18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. ​

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello again @Maniel, the following book (a collection of short stories, actually) was very helpful to me when I was a being attacked as a younger believer (and it remains so today). It's a Christian classic by C. S. Lewis called, The Screwtape Letters, and along with being a great read, it will help you understand what Satan and his demons are up to in your life, and how to recognize their attacks for what they are. You can read it for free online here or here, or you can buy it, of course.

Lewis first read each of the short stories as part of a radio program in England during or just after WWII, if memory serves.

The odd thing about this particular book is that Lewis chose to write it from the demons POV. It is, in fact, principally a conversation between (nephew) Wormwood and his (uncle) Screwtape on how to best tempt their "patients" (that would be us, BTW ). Also, when you see a word like "Enemy" in this book, it is almost always referring to God (remember, this book was written from the demons POV).

Be sure to read the preface(s) and any other historical material that you find in the edition you choose, at it will not only be interesting, but helpful (the "Annotated Edition" has far more of this than any other edition, just FYI).

Enjoy

--David

 

[Maniel]

Hello Maniel, one thing is for sure, our thoughts, good or bad, are ours to deal with, to act upon, to ignore, to forcefully reject, etc. The question is how to best discern the good from the bad when the difference isn't immediately obvious to us (or when our feelings are telling us something that simply isn't true).


1. Scripture (reading/study/memorization/obedience) - growing in the knowledge and understanding of God/His word (so that what is true is immediately discernable from what is not) .. Psalm 1:1-3, 119:9,11; Romans 12:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17
2. Prayer - John 15:7
3. The practice of God's presence in my life throughout the day .. e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
4. Focusing on/delighting myself in God .. e.g. Psalm 37:4
5. Remembering what God did and does for me, as well His great promises .. e.g. John 3:16; Romans 5:8-10, 8:28; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25; Jude 24-25
6. Fellowship w/other believers (including here )
7. There is much more, of course, but I will stop here.


1. Knowing and understanding what God's truth really is, I REJECT ("take captive") any thoughts/feelings that come into my mind that oppose it, again and again and again, when necessary .. 2 Corinthians 10:5. This is one of the reasons that we need to always be increasing our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures.

If you do not take your errant thoughts/feelings "captive" in time, and you end up sinning, there is an ongoing answer/cure for that too .. 1 John 1:9 In any case, the thing to do is to ALWAYS believe and trust God, by taking Him at His very word (no matter what your 'feelings' are telling in the moment). Granted, this can be TOUGH to do, especially at first, but it becomes easier with practice. I also believe that this is the principal way that we 1. steadfastly obey the command that is found in James 4:7 ("resist the devil"), and then 2. receive the wonderful promise from God that goes along with it when we do ("and he will flee from you").

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you may want to take some time to carefully consider all that is said in Ephesians 6:10-17 as well. (as far beginning to obey the following passage goes, start to become more aware of all that is around you and look for things throughout your day, even the smallest of things, to rejoice in and give thanks to God for ).

1 Thessalonians 5​

16 Rejoice always; ​

17 pray without ceasing; ​

18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. ​

Thanks for your reply Worm, it's good to get some insights from others. I'm sort of training and trying to make it into a habbit some of those things you mention, trying to remember certain vbible verses, praying and meditating on a deeper level. It's definitely a journey, but so worth it.

I've also read the Screwtape Letters you mention, it's a great book. Reading the third book in his Space Trilogy right now, that also sort of touches on the evil spirit of mankind

 

[ViaCrucis]

Our thoughts are our own.

The devil lies, this is true; and so he may speak his lies in our ear (as it were), but our thoughts still remain our own to deal with and thus to bring them before God in prayer.

The devil can no more think for us than he can make us do something. Our thoughts, words, and deeds are ours. That is why in repentance we can come before God, confessing, "We have sinned against You in thought, word, and deed. By what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbor as ourselves." Knowing that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).

We should also bear in mind that intrusive thoughts are a problem many people have. That's psychological in nature, and should be treated as such.

-CryptoLutheran