are SDAs the only ones?

[JohnMarsten]

Under God: Seventh-Day Adventists and abortion - Julia Duin

according to this article SDAs are the only ones who are involved in murder... hope I am not gonna throw up today as the mere thought is disgusting to me, I mean I have spent a lot of time in the church not knowing about mass murder being practiced... there were times that I even gave some of my money for some hospital projects... not knowing that this money is gonna be used to erect some facilities that will kill the unborn...

but to my excuse I can say that I didnt know... maybe I should have done some research but Hey, who would suspect that is taking place...

I told my mother yesterday... she couldnt believe it at first... that was about that Feldkamp butcher... she knew the story about that plane crash and how God made it happen in order to send out a warning to all those abortionists...

but when I told her that it was actuall SDA who died in that plane crash and the owner of that butcher stores was an SDA, she didnt believe me (at first that is)

it wasnt until I told her that the church in general perform abortions in their hospitals...

you know what she said?

Sodom and gomorrah... (and my mother was always highly pro-adventism and apparently highly pro-life)

I think this will have opened her eyes a little bit...

what I thought about yesterday is all that bashing against the catholic church and stuff, but in this regard I would say the catholics are miles ahead of SDAs! Catholics might have killed many during the crusades and stuff. ok, that wasnt good...

but abortion IMHO is some sort of pagan god worship... otherwise known as Child sacrifice, it may not be intentional, but you know, I think the devil is proud of this! he must really like it...

and if there is no other church that is up to the task, wow... the SDAs are truly exclusive, one of a kind!

 

[JohnMarsten]

and I think this is the final straw

"Sincere though they may be, these men espouse many theological errors and have no understanding of God's truth for this time," Paulson wrote. "Seventh- day Adventists should listen to such persons with extreme care and discriminating judgment. ...Among the Adventist pioneers, J.N. Andrews and John Harvey Kellogg wrote against abortion, yet the writings of Ellen White maintain the silence of Scripture on the subject... We find it interesting that when Ellen White speaks of the "earliest moments" of our children, she speaks of birth, not conception," he concluded.


Yeah man! Is this the point where the Holy Spirit needs to get involved or are we gonna believe Sister E in this matter...

 

[Humble Pie]

I think the SDA church put a lot of thought into the practice, note the following found in their guidlines for abortion:

4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.

As for your question: Are SDAs the only ones? Well I do know that some Presbyterian churches sit on the fence regarding abortion.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I think the SDA church put a lot of thought into the practice, note the following found in their guidlines for abortion:

4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.

As for your question: Are SDAs the only ones? Well I do know that some Presbyterian churches sit on the fence regarding abortion.

There seems to be a lot of 'faith' in these statements...

like I said, I am not a teetotaler, but that would be similar to a whiskey bar having some giudelines, like the bar does not serve as conscience for those who wanna have a drink you know what I mean...

IMHO the church is on a lost position if they maintain these piece of xxxxxxx

 

[E.T.Elijah]

Well John, from a five minute search on the internet it seems as though most every Christian denomination has hospitals that perform some type of abortion. The Catholic hospitals are the only ones that I have come across that do not perform them in any situation. I work in a Catholic hospital and can attest to their strict guidelines condoning the practice. Although they do push alot for United Way and other charitible contributions some of which go indirectly to agencies that fund planned parenthood and the like. So it seems as though the SDA hospitals seems to have fallen in line with the rest of the Christian world...talking against it yet employing the practice thereof.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Well John, from a five minute search on the internet it seems as though most every Christian denomination has hospitals that perform some type of abortion. The Catholic hospitals are the only ones that I have come across that do not perform them in any situation. I work in a Catholic hospital and can attest to their strict guidelines condoning the practice. Although they do push alot for United Way and other charitible contributions some of which go indirectly to agencies that fund planned parenthood and the like. So it seems as though the SDA hospitals seems to have fallen in line with the rest of the Christian world...talking against it yet employing the practice thereof.

I dont know Elijah, I am shocked... but then, OK... its only guidelines... its only performing the dirty deed... it is the patient who decides, the church doesnt force anyone.... wow... so is it really up to us to decide? I mean OK, lets say somebody has been raped, and now what? kill the unborn? call that choice?

 

[Stryder06]

I dont know Elijah, I am shocked... but then, OK... its only guidelines... its only performing the dirty deed... it is the patient who decides, the church doesnt force anyone.... wow... so is it really up to us to decide? I mean OK, lets say somebody has been raped, and now what? kill the unborn? call that choice?

For someone who continues to claim that most things "aren't that simple", I like how you find something as controversial as abortion to be so cut and dry. You do realize that not every employee who walks into an Adventist hospital is Adventists right? You do realize that every patient they have isn't Adventist right?

What happens when a delivery is complicated and you have to choose between saving the child or saving the mother? Is it still cut and dry?

Again, I'm not saying I'm in favor of abortion. I am saying however that this isn't as black and white as you want to make it out to be.

 

[JohnMarsten]

For someone who continues to claim that most things "aren't that simple", I like how you find something as controversial as abortion to be so cut and dry. You do realize that not every employee who walks into an Adventist hospital is Adventists right? You do realize that every patient they have isn't Adventist right?

What happens when a delivery is complicated and you have to choose between saving the child or saving the mother? Is it still cut and dry?

Again, I'm not saying I'm in favor of abortion. I am saying however that this isn't as black and white as you want to make it out to be.

of course its not...

so I understand that they only perform abortions when the life of a mother is at stake, is that what you wanna say? is this their regulation on abortion? or is it like conscience rules? like if you want an abortion, we can make it for you, just pay us!!???

 

[Stryder06]

of course its not...

so I understand that they only perform abortions when the life of a mother is at stake, is that what you wanna say? is this their regulation on abortion? or is it like conscience rules? like if you want an abortion, we can make it for you, just pay us!!???

You're being cynical. I don't think you get that people don't enter into this situation lightly. If it's really a concern for you than you would be praying, not ranting, about it.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If it's really a concern for you than you would be praying, not ranting, about it.

Amen!

Although why waste an opportunity to bash either the church or sister White.... right Marsten? I see you've got your mom now on the raod of questioning and doubting... congrats, hope it doesn't destroy her faith completely.

 

[David Conklin]

and I think this is the final straw

"Sincere though they may be, these men espouse many theological errors and have no understanding of God's truth for this time," Paulson wrote. "Seventh- day Adventists should listen to such persons with extreme care and discriminating judgment. ...Among the Adventist pioneers, J.N. Andrews and John Harvey Kellogg wrote against abortion, yet the writings of Ellen White maintain the silence of Scripture on the subject... We find it interesting that when Ellen White speaks of the "earliest moments" of our children, she speaks of birth, not conception," he concluded.


Yeah man! Is this the point where the Holy Spirit needs to get involved or are we gonna believe Sister E in this matter...

Do you have proof that Paulson said these words? Does Paulson make the beliefs for the whole church? Why did you accept his conclusion of what EGW wrote? Did you examine her writings for yourself?

 

[JohnMarsten]

You're being cynical. I don't think you get that people don't enter into this situation lightly. If it's really a concern for you than you would be praying, not ranting, about it.

I never implied that people get lightly into this situation...

but then, what kind of guidelines do these people get?

break the commandment? its your choice?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Amen!

Although why waste an opportunity to bash either the church or sister White.... right Marsten? I see you've got your mom now on the raod of questioning and doubting... congrats, hope it doesn't destroy her faith completely.

I just stood up for the right thing, you should get a break and do the same from time to time...

 

[JohnMarsten]

Do you have proof that Paulson said these words? Does Paulson make the beliefs for the whole church? Why did you accept his conclusion of what EGW wrote? Did you examine her writings for yourself?

I just posted an article I found on the net... it is your job to disprove it...

just btw, if somebody spread lies about me... like a reporter... and I happened to be an SDA... I think I would sue the man... probably a catholic one (la\wyer)

do you check every article that you read if its true?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Do you have proof that Paulson said these words? Does Paulson make the beliefs for the whole church? Why did you accept his conclusion of what EGW wrote? Did you examine her writings for yourself?

BTW do you have prove for the contrary?

otherwise I think I am innocent unless proven otherwise...

Do you know Paulson personally? if so, go ahead and ask him, I dont know the dude, so I cant really ask him...

btw what is your take on abortion? Do you think its right to kill the unborn? When does life start in your opinion? at birth? at conception?

what is worse? selling wine or killing the unborn?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Amen!

Although why waste an opportunity to bash either the church or sister White.... right Marsten? I see you've got your mom now on the raod of questioning and doubting... congrats, hope it doesn't destroy her faith completely.

just btw, I think people should get to know where they put their money, I think my mother will think twice when there is another hospital built, and so should you, as of today it seems to be more appropriate to sponsor catholic hospitals...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

just btw, I think people should get to know where they put their money, I think my mother will think twice when there is another hospital built, and so should you, as of today it seems to be more appropriate to sponsor catholic hospitals...

Did Jesus not praise the widow that gave what little she had to the temple even though it was being run by zealots who were misrepresenting God and His character?

And thanx for your concern over where I put my tithes... I support a small ministry in Zambia where souls are hungry for the truth and the resources scarce.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Did Jesus not praise the widow that gave what little she had to the temple even though it was being run by zealots who were misrepresenting God and His character?

And thanx for your concern over where I put my tithes... I support a small ministry in Zambia where souls are hungry for the truth and the resources scarce.

true, true, but times were different... and besides a split has occured afterwards... nobody needed to stay in the business run by zealots...

 

[Stryder06]

I never implied that people get lightly into this situation...

but then, what kind of guidelines do these people get?

break the commandment? its your choice?

Again, it's not so black and white. This issue is a source of heartache for many people and a struggle between them and God.

I can't explain why some people genuinely don't believe a child is actually human until a certain time after conception. What I can do is pray for them and for the world in general, and hope that God reaches them.

The doctor aborting a baby is loved by God just as much as the person protesting their actions. Thus it would be in our interest to intercede for these people.

 

[Contented]

Again, it's not so black and white. This issue is a source of heartache for many people and a struggle between them and God.

I can't explain why some people genuinely don't believe a child is actually human until a certain time after conception. What I can do is pray for them and for the world in general, and hope that God reaches them.

The doctor aborting a baby is loved by God just as much as the person protesting their actions. Thus it would be in our interest to intercede for these people.

Stryder06 what is your position on homosexuality as it relates to the above statement.