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I agree.Ok, your welcome. My point is simply it's not a complicated rite, not only is Jesus present at the Lord's Supper but anytime two or more are gathered in his name.
The traditional one?Jesus didn't qualify his memorial of his sacrifice in that way, I don't know what possible definition of the 'Eucharist' you could be working from.
He said a fair bit more than that.Jesus simply said do this in remembrance of me.
Catholics commemorate Our Lord by receiving His Body and Blood. That's the Eucharist.If your doing that, then that's the Eucharist or did I miss something?
My question is whether Catholics believe that Protestants actually observe the "real" Lords supper, as outlined in scripture, and if not do they believe that Protestants are dead because they lack the real Lords supper?People need to define their terms so that their intended meaning is clear. "Holy Eucharist" is used in Catholic theology to name the sacrament of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The doctrine associated with it is "the real presence" and an explanation of how Christ is really present is called "transubstantiation". Only a few Protestant denominations hold to similar theology. The majority of Baptist and Pentecostal Protestants hold to a commemorative supper and "the real presence" in their theology is "spiritual". The "Lord's supper" in Catholic thinking is entirely different from the "Lord's supper" in Baptist and Pentecostal thinking. It's necessary for people to spell out what they mean by "Eucharist" and "Lord's supper" and whatever other terms they use for the bread/wine before and after "consecration".
Ok, Catholics say that if we dont observe the Lords supper we have no life in us. Do you believe that Protestants observe the Lords supper or not? If not, do you think they are dead?The traditional one?
He said a fair bit more than that.
And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.
-- St. Luke 22:19 (DRA)
Now, I've noticed that Protestants tend to only remember the last seven words of that passage and think "Golly, I guess that's all there is to it, herp a derp!"
But He said "This is my body". He didn't say "This represents" or "This is comparable to" or "This is a metaphor". He said "This IS my body."
It's not as complicated as you're making it.
Catholics commemorate Our Lord by receiving His Body and Blood. That's the Eucharist.
Protestants just commemorate by drinking grape juice and eating crackers. That's not the Eucharist.
I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?
John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
Thank you.Communion is the central theme of virtually any Mass. Yet, there are even many Catholics that refrain from partaking, for such reasons as irregularities in marriage status, or desire to go to confession first, etc. Nobody tells them that they are dead, or that it is useless for them to be there.
It was a few years back that Catholic teaching let go of the idea of a limbo for the unbaptised innocents. This is a result of a better understanding of the sacraments, where sacraments are there to provide us assurance of salvation. For sure, the saving grace of Christ's salvation come to us through sacraments.
But sacraments do not tie God's hands. He saves who he will save, and the Catholic teaching is that while we are assured of where salvation is, which is in the Church of Christ, we cannot presume to know where it is not.
It would presumptuous for any Catholic to think that any non-Catholic is a walking, talking, breathing zombie, let alone Protestants.
Wow, you really aren't grasping that I'm not talking about that, are you?That still holds true where two or more are gathered in his name, Rome dosen't have a monopoly on that.
That's the lowest hanging fruit so I can see why you keep gravitating toward that.Well of course, it's not rocket science, I don't think, 'do this in remembrance of me', is that hard to understand.
Oh?I don't think they have 'run the gamut' on this particular issue. I'm not entirely sure you can.
Well unless something has changed since my days in the RCC, I can tell you that at least back then, yes that is what they believe. And destined for hell. Not just because of Communion but not following the entire program. Very bold position.My question is whether Catholics believe that Protestants actually observe the "real" Lords supper, as outlined in scripture, and if not do they believe that Protestants are dead because they lack the real Lords supper?
My understanding of the bible
That's my impression as wellWell unless something has changed since my days in the RCC, I can tell you that at least back then, yes that is what they believe. And destined for hell.
False. Our Lord said that those who do not eat His flesh and drink His blood have no life in them.Ok, Catholics say that if we dont observe the Lords supper we have no life in us.
You guys have a "Lord's Supper". And it's cool, whatever. But, again, it's not the Eucharist. It's not the Body and the Blood.Do you believe that Protestants observe the Lords supper or not?
I know what you're trying to make me say here. Hasn't it become clear that I'm not willing to say it?If not, do you think they are dead?
False. Our Lord said that those who do not eat His flesh and drink His blood have no life in them.
You guys have a "Lord's Supper". And it's cool, whatever. But, again, it's not the Eucharist. It's not the Body and the Blood.
I know what you're trying to make me say here. Hasn't it become clear that I'm not willing to say it?
Instead, I'll say that I think you need to take all of this up with the Lord.
Not false. Catholic Posters have said that to me on more than one occasion.False. Our Lord said that those who do not eat His flesh and drink His blood have no life in them.
Is that what you do when your theology doesnt add up?I know what you're trying to make me say here. Hasn't it become clear that I'm not willing to say it?
I was actually taught this back in the 1950's and 60's, so it's more than an impression in my case. As I said, unless something has changed.That's my impression as well
And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.
-- St. Luke 22:19 (DRA)
Now, I've noticed that Protestants tend to only remember the last seven words of that passage and think "Golly, I guess that's all there is to it, herp a derp!"
But He said "This is my body". He didn't say "This represents" or "This is comparable to" or "This is a metaphor". He said "This IS my body."
It's not as complicated as you're making it.
I have no idea if it has or not. But i have heard it said on CF.I was actually taught this back in the 1950's and 60's, so it's more than an impression in my case. As I said, unless something has changed.
Yes, its not like the Lord was eating himself.Obviously, the bread was not literally Christ's body. Christ had not plucked the bread from himself; it wasn't oozing blood, or had the texture of flesh; it was bread. Seems plain to me, then, that when Jesus said, "This is my body," he meant the bread was representative of his body that would be sacrificed at Calvary. And this is why he speaks of eating the bread as a commemorative ritual.
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