Are Protestants dead?

[mark kennedy]

What do you base that on?

The people who abandoned Him in St. John 6 sure took him literally. And oddly enough, Our Lord didn't stop them and correct their thinking. He let them leave.

In fairness, in St. Luke 22 when Our Lord holds up bread and says "This is my body", it kind of gave the impression that the bread is His body. You know?

Agreed. A small number. A very small number. Like, a really minuscule number. Because at least 75% of the Christian world today believes in Real Presence.

It used to be something like 100% but Protestantism.

But anyway, you're right, a very tiny number of people.

Again, this simply is untrue, we do believe in the presence.

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”(Matt. 18:20)​

We just have a broader understanding of what the presence of Christ includes.

 

[W2L]

What do you base that on?

The people who abandoned Him in St. John 6 sure took him literally. And oddly enough, Our Lord didn't stop them and correct their thinking. He let them leave.

In fairness, in St. Luke 22 when Our Lord holds up bread and says "This is my body", it kind of gave the impression that the bread is His body. You know?

Agreed. A small number. A very small number. Like, a really minuscule number. Because at least 75% of the Christian world today believes in Real Presence.

It used to be something like 100% but Protestantism.

But anyway, you're right, a very tiny number of people.

I have never heard a protestant believe in the real presence. Isnt that just a catholic thing?

 

[W2L]

Again, this simply is untrue, we do believe in the presence.

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”(Matt. 18:20)​

We just have a broader understanding of what the presence of Christ includes.

I agree.

 

[W2L]

Well, reading your original post very carefully, it would sound like certain Catholics are attacking Protestants. Why do certain Catholics and Protestants like to attack each other?

I dont know. I hate contention, but i love to discuss the scriptures.

 

[dreadnought]

LOL. Then you must be new to GT.

Why is it helpful for religious groups to attack each other?

 

[mark kennedy]

You're welcome to remember it. Indeed, remembering it is an objectively good thing to do. By all means, remember it in your "Lord's Supper".

But your grape juice and crackers? That's not the Eucharist, friend.

Jesus didn't qualify his memorial of his sacrifice in that way, I don't know what possible definition of the 'Eucharist' you could be working from. Jesus simply said do this in remembrance of me. If your doing that, then that's the Eucharist or did I miss something?

 

[dreadnought]

I dont know. I hate contention, but i love to discuss the scriptures.

I suspect there will always be disagreements, but attacks don't win arguments. Happy birthday.

 

[mark kennedy]

I dont know. I hate contention, but i love to discuss the scriptures.

Well so do I, I'm just a little puzzled why the requisite proof texts here are not forth coming.

 

[W2L]

I suspect there will always be disagreements, but attacks don't win arguments. Happy birthday.

Yes, i agree that attacks dont help.

 

[Dave G.]

Why dont they?

Why are you pushing on this so hard W2L ?

I think it's clear that Catholics believe in transubstantiation of the elements by a priest ordained to do such a thing. And they believe if that has not taken place then there is no Lords supper happening in that church.. Or no sacrament has been performed at least. They also believe or did last I knew anyway, that it is a super serious sin to partake of this if you have not been cleared by the church to do so. That would mean going through their step program of qualification ( classes, a communion ceremony, confirmation etc) in hopes that one day you might come to salvation actually.. It's what they believe and so that's that. Let me just add, that you are not going to convince them that it's any different ( the partaking of this). It's at the core of their belief.

 

[W2L]

Well so do I, I'm just a little puzzled why the requisite proof texts here are not forth coming.

What do you mean?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Again, this simply is untrue, we do believe in the presence.

I referred to the Real Presence. That is, Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist.

I have never heard a protestant believe in the real presence. Isnt that just a catholic thing?

A lot of Anglicans believe in it. My recollection is a lot of Lutherans do as well. They have may have different theological particulars going on but they at least have a notion of it. Not all, perhaps. But several.

I should say that it's a bit tricky to affix specific beliefs on Anglicans in particular since their theology can run the gamut.

 

[W2L]

Why are you pushing on this so hard W2L ?

I think it's clear that Catholics believe in transubstantiation of the elements by a priest ordained to do such a thing. And they believe if that has not taken place then there is no Lords supper happening in that church.. Or no sacrament has been performed at least. They also believe or did last I knew anyway, that it is a super serious sin to partake of this if you have not been cleared by the church to do so. That would mean going through their step program of qualification ( classes, a communion ceremony, confirmation etc) in hopes that one day you might come to salvation actually.. It's what they believe and so that's that.

Why am i pushing? Im not, at least no more than others do in other discussions. So if Catholics believe that Protestants dont actually observe this sacrament, then they must think that protestants are dead. Isnt that worthy of a good discussion? Shouldn't we try to make the truth known?

 

[mark kennedy]

I referred to the Real Presence. That is, Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist.

That still holds true where two or more are gathered in his name, Rome dosen't have a monopoly on that.

A lot of Anglicans believe in it. My recollection is a lot of Lutherans do as well. They have may have different theological particulars going on but they at least have a notion of it. Not all, perhaps. But several.

Well of course, it's not rocket science, I don't think, 'do this in remembrance of me', is that hard to understand.

I should say that it's a bit tricky to affix specific beliefs on Anglicans in particular since their theology can run the gamut.

I don't think they have 'run the gamut' on this particular issue. I'm not entirely sure you can.

 

[mark kennedy]

What do you mean?

We are talking about the Lord's Supper, some how connecting it to figurative language Jesus was using in John 6. The Lord's Supper wasn't inaugurated until the Upper Room. Very little Scripture in this discussion and really nothing in the texts addressing this issue that somehow excludes Protestants from participating in the Lord's Supper.

 

[Dave G.]

Why am i pushing? Im not, at least no more than others do in other discussions. So if Catholics believe that Protestants dont actually observe this sacrament, then they must think that protestants are dead. Isnt that worthy of a good discussion? Shouldn't we try to make the truth known?

Yes but you aren't going to convince them of anything different from what they practice is all. Sure it's worth discussing. And there is a difference for sure, be the difference the truth or not is another matter.. I personally kind of like following the outline Jesus Christ put out there in person, as I described in the other thread already, so won't get into that again.

 

[W2L]

We are talking about the Lord's Supper, some how connecting it to figurative language Jesus was using in John 6. The Lord's Supper wasn't inaugurated until the Upper Room. Very little Scripture in this discussion and really nothing in the texts addressing this issue that somehow excludes Protestants from participating in the Lord's Supper.

I understand, thank you.

 

[Shempster]

What do you base that on?

My understanding of the bible

 

[mark kennedy]

I understand, thank you.

Ok, your welcome. My point is simply it's not a complicated rite, not only is Jesus present at the Lord's Supper but anytime two or more are gathered in his name.

 

[GingerBeer]

People need to define their terms so that their intended meaning is clear. "Holy Eucharist" is used in Catholic theology to name the sacrament of the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The doctrine associated with it is "the real presence" and an explanation of how Christ is really present is called "transubstantiation". Only a few Protestant denominations hold to similar theology. The majority of Baptist and Pentecostal Protestants hold to a commemorative supper and "the real presence" in their theology is "spiritual". The "Lord's supper" in Catholic thinking is entirely different from the "Lord's supper" in Baptist and Pentecostal thinking. It's necessary for people to spell out what they mean by "Eucharist" and "Lord's supper" and whatever other terms they use for the bread/wine before and after "consecration".

 

[W2L]

Yes but you aren't going to convince them of anything different from what they practice is all. Sure it's worth discussing. And there is a difference for sure, be the difference the truth or not is another matter.. I personally kind of like following the outline Jesus Christ put out there in person, as I described in the other thread already, so won't get into that again.

Maybe this discussion will open some minds. Maybe not. Its a good discussion regardless i guess.