Are Our Standards Too Low?

[Romanseight2005]

Oh in many ways I think our standards are too high. We confuse standards with expectations and that is a killer

I don't understand how that is possible. I love my husband, I want to do things for him, honor him, etc. However, we are supposed to die to ourselves, and give to our spouses in a crossbearing way. I don't see how our basic standards(meaning the general consensus that I have seen) could possibly be too high.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Let me clarify what I meant. My expectations should for the most past be about my ability to love my husband, not the other way around. Yes, there are some basic standards of faithfulness, and very basic courtesy, but other than that the expectations our on ourselves.

 

[dinonum]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

I think those are really great things to think about, but sometimes, we try to put those onto our marriages too much. I've seen countless relationships go through really painful times while each spouse tried to be perfect, and I think that sometimes it just isn't what God actually wants for marriages. In a lot of ways though, it seems like a mix of far too high standards and far too low which really mess up marriages.

Like I said, I think what you posted are great questions to be asking ourselves, but we shouldn't put our spouse in a position to have to answer them in order to make them better either.

 

[McScribe]

I guess I don't see those as being acting perfect; quite the contrary. I might sum up all those with words like grace and humility. Obviously there will be misunderstandings, loss of temper, frustration, disagreements and so on. I believe that my list of standards are not so much about being a perfect spouse as recognizing that we cannot be and yet are capable of nevertheless acting with grace and humility. For example:

1. You may not be meeting the needs of your spouse--but if you are in genuine humble prayer to God I honestly believe that God will give us wisdom about everything that troubles us--after all Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would do that.

2. We may disagree about things and not always understand one another, but if we try to be respectful it will make it easier for us to believe we can communicate with one another and overcome difficulties.

3. If we have honesty as a basis for our relationship then even deceptions can be revealed but will be anomalous rather than the norm.

4. If we have the courage of our faith we can express desires and concerns, and we can hear those of the other person without being defensive or accusatory all the time.

5. If we remember that we are called to minister to others and teach the Gospel to them then we will not just be Sunday christians with other couples but genuinely concerned and caring of others.

Thoughts?

 

[dinonum]

I guess I don't see those as being acting perfect; quite the contrary. I might sum up all those with words like grace and humility. Obviously there will be misunderstandings, loss of temper, frustration, disagreements and so on. I believe that my list of standards are not so much about being a perfect spouse as recognizing that we cannot be and yet are capable of nevertheless acting with grace and humility. For example:

1. You may not be meeting the needs of your spouse--but if you are in genuine humble prayer to God I honestly believe that God will give us wisdom about everything that troubles us--after all Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would do that.

2. We may disagree about things and not always understand one another, but if we try to be respectful it will make it easier for us to believe we can communicate with one another and overcome difficulties.

3. If we have honesty as a basis for our relationship then even deceptions can be revealed but will be anomalous rather than the norm.

4. If we have the courage of our faith we can express desires and concerns, and we can hear those of the other person without being defensive or accusatory all the time.

5. If we remember that we are called to minister to others and teach the Gospel to them then we will not just be Sunday christians with other couples but genuinely concerned and caring of others.

Thoughts?

Oh yeah, I totally get what you are saying. My point is simply though that sometimes things don't go the way we plan and sometimes we have to be careful how we are judging our spouses. I remember when Fireproof came out and everyone was going on and on about it, my husband and I watched the video and felt much more content in our marriage simply because neither of us recognized so many of those negative things in our relationship at all. My mom bought me the workbook and after reading through it, there really wasn't anything in there we didn't already do. One thing that really was funny though and what I find relevant to this discussion is that it wasn't always meant for both spouses (the book in the movie) and the main character was shocked to find that his father hadn't done the book the mother had and she'd made lots of improvements.

Maybe our standards are too low for ourselves, but I just wanted to make clear that it isn't always fair or right or good on a marriage to try and convince our spouses to do those things.

 

[sdmsanjose]

1. You may not be meeting the needs of your spouse--but if you are in genuine humble prayer to God I honestly believe that God will give us wisdom about everything that troubles us--after all Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would do that.
IMO this standard is NOT too low nor too high is it something that is RIGHT ON! Thank you McScribe fro reminding me of a very important standard and MARRIGE BUILDER!



2. We may disagree about things and not always understand one another, but if we try to be respectful it will make it easier for us to believe we can communicate with one another and overcome difficulties.
Being respectful and good communicating skills are always good standards that are achievable in marriages.




3. If we have honesty as a basis for our relationship then even deceptions can be revealed but will be anomalous rather than the norm.
Honesty coupled with wisdom is a very definite positive for any relationship.


4. If we have the courage of our faith we can express desires and concerns, and we can hear those of the other person without being defensive or accusatory all the time.
Number 4 above takes a humble heart with the right attitude and a good dose of 1st Corinthians 13 (Biblical LOVE)




5. If we remember that we are called to minister to others and teach the Gospel to them then we will not just be Sunday Christians with other couples but genuinely concerned and caring of others.


We are defiantly called to minister. There are so many ways to minister and a few that comes to my mind involves starting with yourself:

Sincerely pursue to be in obedience with God.
Pray for more of a desire for the welfare of others.
Pray for and take actions to have a stronger desire to please God.
Remember that your life at work, at home, in society, and anywhere else is your testimony and your ministry.



McScribe
Because I get caught up in the daily things in life I forget the standards that are so spirit fulfilling. You have reminded me of some. Thank you!

Stan

 

[McScribe]

mkgal and I have been trying to say this in this thread and I don't know if it's being understood. It's not the particular individual that needs to recognize these standards but the couple, as an entity and as one flesh. When I say 'the particular individual' I don't mean at all that we should be pointing the finger. I realize that there is a concern about this, that it will lead to judgement, but I don't mean to create a sense of self righteousness at all. I think that Cons, Chaz and you and mkgal1 and I are all actually in agreement about this: that being judgemental is counterproductive.

So when I say 'the marriage needs to recognize these standards' what I mean is that the couple together have to strive to do so. And there is an individual component to that. You notice I keep mentioning humility and honesty before God. That means that we have the humility of Joshua, for example, who asks God "what do I need to do" rather than "Who do I blame."

I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.

 

[McScribe]

1. You may not be meeting the needs of your spouse--but if you are in genuine humble prayer to God I honestly believe that God will give us wisdom about everything that troubles us--after all Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would do that.
IMO this standard is NOT too low nor too high is it something that is RIGHT ON! Thank you McScribe fro reminding me of a very important standard and MARRIGE BUILDER!



2. We may disagree about things and not always understand one another, but if we try to be respectful it will make it easier for us to believe we can communicate with one another and overcome difficulties.
Being respectful and good communicating skills are always good standards that are achievable in marriages.




3. If we have honesty as a basis for our relationship then even deceptions can be revealed but will be anomalous rather than the norm.
Honesty coupled with wisdom is a very definite positive for any relationship.


4. If we have the courage of our faith we can express desires and concerns, and we can hear those of the other person without being defensive or accusatory all the time.
Number 4 above takes a humble heart with the right attitude and a good dose of 1st Corinthians 13 (Biblical LOVE)




5. If we remember that we are called to minister to others and teach the Gospel to them then we will not just be Sunday Christians with other couples but genuinely concerned and caring of others.


We are defiantly called to minister. There are so many ways to minister and a few that comes to my mind involves starting with yourself:

Sincerely pursue to be in obedience with God.
Pray for more of a desire for the welfare of others.
Pray for and take actions to have a stronger desire to please God.
Remember that your life at work, at home, in society, and anywhere else is your testimony and your ministry.



McScribe
Because I get caught up in the daily things in life I forget the standards that are so spirit fulfilling. You have reminded me of some. Thank you!

Stan

Thank YOU Stan for starting that thread on 1 Corinthians 13, American love vs. Biblical love. That inspired me to really think about what it meant!

 

[alexanderjc]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

This question that you raise are very important and they are all incorporated in basic christian principles for a successful marriage based on what the Word of God has layed out for us.

So my answer to your question would be not that we have lowered our standards because "our standards for marriage" in and of themselves are open for interpretation and have no weight when it comes to right and wrong, but that we have weakened our position on the standards that God gave us concerning the guidelines of a successful marriage with the Word of God as our sounding board.

Everything that you listed above are all ingredients that every christian marriage should have in order to be successful. At the onset of the marriage it is hoped that those principles of love, trust, honor, and commitment is the foundation that will grow within the lifecycle of the marriage. However we know, through what we have witnessed in the Body of Christ, that the ability to maintain those principle weakens as the marriage ages.

The weakness of those principles stems directly from one or both parties weakness in their spiritual growth in God. When you drift away from walking, according to the Word of God, then the wisdom and protection that comes from the guidance of His Holy Spirit is effected.

Marriage is a spiritual bond between two individuals, it is not of the flesh that we are joined together. Without the constant upkeep from God to help us in our marriage we open ourselves up to the plans and strategies of our adversary to destroy our marriage.

Finally the standards that you speak of is God. How much consideration we give Him is a direct reflection on the outcome of not only our marriage but it is the reflection of our individual walk in the Body of Christ. A weak christian is an opportunity for the adversary to have a destructive influence in our marriage principles and the Household of Faith as a whole.

 

[Psalm63]

I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.

How about porn use?
According to statistics it is an issue of epidemic proportions

In a survey of over 500 Christian men at a men’s retreat, over 90% admitted that they were feeling disconnected from God because lust, porn, or fantasy had gained a foothold in their lives. (source)

​

I see from another thread that there are members here who see nothing wrong with porn use. but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that this is a Bible believing christian couple who believe lust is sin. Let's make him a pastor who preaches that very message from the pulpit. He is using porn and the wife is against it.

* In 2000 Christianity Today survey, 33% of clergy admitted to having visited a sexually explicit Web site. Of those who had visited a porn site, 53% had visited such sites “a few times” in the past year, and 18% visit sexually explicit sites between a couple of times a month and more than once a week.
* Out of 81 pastors surveyed (74 males 7 female), 98% had been exposed to porn; 43% intentionally accessed a sexually explicit website
National Coalition survey of pastors. Seattle. April 2000. (source)

​

 

[Psalm63]

Let me clarify what I meant. My expectations should for the most past be about my ability to love my husband, not the other way around. Yes, there are some basic standards of faithfulness, and very basic courtesy, but other than that the expectations our on ourselves.

I have to disagree.

IMO, part of the value of marriage is mutual accountability. This is someone who is not going to go away, someone to whom our failings and areas in need of repentance/growth are exposed more than anyone else.

Did Jesus walk out 1 Cor 13 LOVE? Did Jesus LOVE the pharisees when he blasted them in Matt 23? Did Jesus LOVE Peter when he rebuked him saying "Get thee behind me, Satan"? I say he did LOVE them. He loved them enough to speak the TRUTH with them. He loved them enough to be firm with them.

 

[Conservativation]

mkgal and I have been trying to say this in this thread and I don't know if it's being understood. It's not the particular individual that needs to recognize these standards but the couple, as an entity and as one flesh. When I say 'the particular individual' I don't mean at all that we should be pointing the finger. I realize that there is a concern about this, that it will lead to judgement, but I don't mean to create a sense of self righteousness at all. I think that Cons, Chaz and you and mkgal1 and I are all actually in agreement about this: that being judgemental is counterproductive.

So when I say 'the marriage needs to recognize these standards' what I mean is that the couple together have to strive to do so. And there is an individual component to that. You notice I keep mentioning humility and honesty before God. That means that we have the humility of Joshua, for example, who asks God "what do I need to do" rather than "Who do I blame."

I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.

Not exactly. Its nice to use the words "its about the marriage"...but then read her posts are all about ways to approach the OTHER PERSON....things like "its best not to blame because that causes defensiveness"

So long as folks are stuck comparing how their spouse is doing, they will ALWAYS be discontented. Thats not the same things as saying that we dont expect ANYTHING from our spouse...its saying that dwelling and worrying over the spouse, using our IMPERFECT feelings as a guide is recipe for disaster.
Read these boarsd and others for overwhelming proof of that.

 

[Conservativation]

I have to disagree.

IMO, part of the value of marriage is mutual accountability. This is someone who is not going to go away, someone to whom our failings and areas in need of repentance/growth are exposed more than anyone else.

Did Jesus walk out 1 Cor 13 LOVE? Did Jesus LOVE the pharisees when he blasted them in Matt 23? Did Jesus LOVE Peter when he rebuked him saying "Get thee behind me, Satan"? I say he did LOVE them. He loved them enough to speak the TRUTH with them. He loved them enough to be firm with them.

Jesus IS THE STANDARD.....YOU and I are NOT. The difference is painfully obvious.

 

[chaz345]

mkgal and I have been trying to say this in this thread and I don't know if it's being understood. It's not the particular individual that needs to recognize these standards but the couple, as an entity and as one flesh. When I say 'the particular individual' I don't mean at all that we should be pointing the finger. I realize that there is a concern about this, that it will lead to judgement, but I don't mean to create a sense of self righteousness at all. I think that Cons, Chaz and you and mkgal1 and I are all actually in agreement about this: that being judgemental is counterproductive.

So when I say 'the marriage needs to recognize these standards' what I mean is that the couple together have to strive to do so. And there is an individual component to that. You notice I keep mentioning humility and honesty before God. That means that we have the humility of Joshua, for example, who asks God "what do I need to do" rather than "Who do I blame."

I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.

I get what you two have been saying about the standards being something that the couple should strive for together. And I agree completely that in that context they are good, the are required for a healthy marriage, and they are something to strive for recognizing that they are not something that can be perfectly arrived at. That's how it SHOULD be.

WHat I've been saying, that I think has been getting missed is that there are a lot of marriages out there where the primary problem is one person being more worried about how well their spouse is doing in meeting those standards than they are about how they themself are doing. It's not really a problem of one spouse not caring or not being respectful or whatever, it's a problem of perception or of the other spouse deciding on their own what their spouses's part in meeting those standards looks like.


The clearest example that I can think of that comes up quite a bit is the praying together one. We've had threads here where someone(usually the wife) come in talking about how her husband only prays with her once a week or something and practically questioning his salvation.

 

[technofox]

Oh in many ways I think our standards are too high. We confuse standards with expectations and that is a killer

God bless you for just saying that. My wife and I have had expectations that were high when we were first married, but man, my wife standards are way too high. It makes marriage difficult when the woman you are with is expecting you to be mister perfect and not screw up every once in a while. Yet she still says I know you are human and are going to make mistakes and then when I do make mistakes, she makes it sound like I am an unloving fill-in-the-blank, all because I didn't meet her expectation, whereas I have given up on expecting her to do anything for the most part, Arrrgggghhhhh......


I sometimes question, if we as Christians really do have too high of expectations and/or standards for ourselves and others, because of my wife and others of whom I have seen make theirs and others lives miserable. Sorry for the rant, but I am a little touchy about this, because I have seen the negative impact on a marriage when one spouse's standards and expectations are beyond realism. I believe people should be loved for who they are and be encouraged to see what they are doing wrong, instead of the way my wife has to point out every flaw or fault that I have, and demand change or she'll walk (seperate or divorce).

 

[mkgal1]

Not exactly. Its nice to use the words "its about the marriage"...but then read her posts are all about ways to approach the OTHER PERSON....things like "its best not to blame because that causes defensiveness"

So long as folks are stuck comparing how their spouse is doing, they will ALWAYS be discontented. Thats not the same things as saying that we dont expect ANYTHING from our spouse...its saying that dwelling and worrying over the spouse, using our IMPERFECT feelings as a guide is recipe for disaster.
Read these boarsd and others for overwhelming proof of that.

I have continually repeated this, and maybe McScribe can put it into better words for me.....but, my posts are related to bringing the marriage back up to meet those standards. What I have been trying to say is.....one spouse CANNOT usually do that alone. Marriage is RELATING....that means it takes TWO acting as one. When there are differing (or conflicting) goals....there is conflict. How is one person going to resolve that on their own? I am not talking about a checklist used for comparison....that is your baggage that you brought into this conversation. I am talking about things like there NOT being an environment that is open and honest. Where both spouses do not feel the ability to speak honestly, so conversation is shallow and superficial. How can that be remedied by just one spouse and God?

 

[Conservativation]

I have continually repeated this, and maybe McScribe can put it into better words for me.....but, my posts are related to bringing the marriage back up to meet those standards. What I have been trying to say is.....one spouse CANNOT usually do that alone. Marriage is RELATING....that means it takes TWO acting as one. When there are differing (or conflicting) goals....there is conflict. How is one person going to resolve that on their own? I am not talking about a checklist used for comparison....that is your baggage that you brought into this conversation. I am talking about things like there NOT being an environment that is open and honest. Where both spouses do not feel the ability to speak honestly, so conversation is shallow and superficial. How can that be remedied by just one spouse and God?

I see your words, the same ones every time, and every time, no matter how wordrd, they are about one person BRINGING the other along for the benefit of the couple.
Its STILL one person CORRECTING the other.....no matter how you word it...it IS.

 

[sdmsanjose]

CON
Are you saying that one spouse is never to confront the other with their failings?
Please don’t pull the “Jesus IS THE STANDARD.....YOU and I are NOT” card out to counter accountability. I am talking about a spouse who sees the other spouse sinning and doing something very destructive to the marriage.

Psalm gave an example of one spouse into porn. I don’t have to prove that porn is harmful to marriage do I? In this situation the spouse should go to the other spouse and with humility, respect, love, and strength confront the porn using spouse. I understand that there are situations where the spouse is constantly criticizing the other but THIS PORN USE SITUATION DOES NOT FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY.

Try to address this porn situation without using your disagreements in the past with Psalm and some of your own experiences that do not relate to Porn as a factor.

 

[Conservativation]

CON
Are you saying that one spouse is never to confront the other with their failings?
Please don’t pull the “Jesus IS THE STANDARD.....YOU and I are NOT” card out to counter accountability. I am talking about a spouse who sees the other spouse sinning and doing something very destructive to the marriage.

Psalm gave an example of one spouse into porn. I don’t have to prove that porn is harmful to marriage do I? In this situation the spouse should go to the other spouse and with humility, respect, love, and strength confront the porn using spouse. I understand that there are situations where the spouse is constantly criticizing the other but THIS PORN USE SITUATION DOES NOT FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY.

Try to address this porn situation without using your disagreements in the past with Psalm and some of your own experiences that do not relate to Porn as a factor.

Hello!
Did you read the OP!

The discussion and ANY reference I make to standards to to the OP!

Its me who should be saying "dont pull the PORN card", and just for good measure because its a matter of time, "dont pull the ABUSE card"...sheesh, OF COURSE confront them.

Please be kind enough to read the few pages before and dont assume Im that stupid.

Im talking about the 5 standards being listed as OP. Im talking about subjective things, not things that are not measurable. And you bet, I strongly recommend not CONFRONTING someone because you FEEL unloved or something. Oh, it is good to address it, but very very carefully, because there IS no standard that one can say YES or NO that someone is loving sufficiently. THATS what I was talking about in my response to Psalm, and the post I responded to I dont think had a wit to do with porn anyway.

Im truly BEGGING to not make this thread turn into another one about porn and abuse. Youd think they were the only things in the world that happen.

 

[Conservativation]

Here is psalms post

PLEASE SHOW ME THE MENTION OF PORN
I have to disagree.

IMO, part of the value of marriage is mutual accountability. This is someone who is not going to go away, someone to whom our failings and areas in need of repentance/growth are exposed more than anyone else.

Did Jesus walk out 1 Cor 13 LOVE? Did Jesus LOVE the pharisees when he blasted them in Matt 23? Did Jesus LOVE Peter when he rebuked him saying "Get thee behind me, Satan"? I say he did LOVE them. He loved them enough to speak the TRUTH with them. He loved them enough to be firm with them.