Are Our Standards Too Low?

[Conservativation]

Let me go back to the stads:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God? IS IT MY SPOUSES PRIMARY CONCERN OR IS IT MINE EXACTLY HOW HUMBLY AND GENUINELY AND OPENLY I PRAY? HOW CAN SHE KNOW? IN FACT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE ITS BETWEEN ME AND GOD AND FRANKLY SHE IS MEDDLING WAY TOO FAR OUTSIDE HERSELF IF SHE CAME TO ME AND SAID "DEAR I THINK YOU NEED TO BE MORE HUMBLE AND GENUINE WHEN YOU ARE IN PRAYER"
I SURE HOPE EVERYONE AGREES THIS JUST IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR US TO BE JUDGING OTHERS ON THESE THINGS

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?THIS CAN BE SOMETHING THAT CAN NEED TO BE DISCUSSED. AS WITH ANYTHING WE MUST ALLOW THAT IT COULD BE OUR BEING OVERLY SENSITIVE AS WELL AS THEM AND HOW THEY ARE ACTING, SO LONG AS THE MIND AND HEART ARE OPEN TO SELF WHEN THESE THINGS COME UP, ITS FINE. I STILL THINK ITS WEIRD TO DWELL IN QUESTIONING IF MY SPOUSE IS DOING THIS, WHEN I SHOULD BE DWELLING IN HOW WELL I AM DOING

3. How truly honest are we with one another? THIS ONE IS A BIG ONE. IT COVERS THE GAMMUT FROM ARE YOU GOING TO TELL YOUR SPOUSE THAT , YES, THEY REALLY ARE PUTTING ON MORE WEIGHT THAN THEY NEED TO, OR YES, YOU DO LOOK FAT IN THAT DRESS, AND ARE YOU GOING TO DRIVE YOURSELF INSANE WONDERING IF EVERYTHING IS TRUE, WHEN FACT IS, IF THE SPOUSE LIES, YOU CAN WAIT FOR GOD TO REVEAL IT....AND HE WILL.....OR YOU CAN SPEND YOU DAYS CHECKING AND YOU CAN ACCUSE....OR...HOW ABOUT THIS,........YOU BE HONEST WITH YOUR SPOUSE AND UNTIL GIVEN A REASON TO DOUBT, DONT EVEN DWELL IN THE NOTION THAT THEY ARE NOT BEING HONEST. LIKELY I NEED TO REPEAT....UNTIL GIVEN A REASON....PLEASE GET THAT....UNTIL GIVEN A REASON

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?TIES TO THE LYING A BIT. DOES HE/SHE LOOK FAT IN THAT? OK THEN TELL'EM...THATS BRAVE.
DO YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO EXAMINE YOUR MOTIVE FOR WANTING TO CHALLENGE THE OTHER PERSON. I SEE NO REASON TO HAVE COURAGE TO CHALLENGE THEM ON THINGS YOU OUGHT NOT BE CHALLENGING THEM ON IN THE FIRST PLACE AS IT RELATES TO THESE GODLY STANDARDS. DO YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO LET GO AND LET GOD DEAL WITH YOUR SPOUSES SALVATION AND CHARACTER? OR DO YOU THINK GOD NEEDS A TOUCH OF YOUR HELP?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another? THE ONLY ONE WHO REALLY KNOWS HOW I FEEL ABOUT OTHERS IS ME...PERIOD. MY SPOUSE COULD ASK ME ALL DAY EVERY DAY 'DO YOU REALLY CARE?' AND IF I SAY YES....WHATS SHE GONNA DO? ASK AGAIN? WORRY AND WELL IN DOUBTING ME? NOPE....BEST HERE AGAIN THIS BE BETWEEN ME AND GOD WITH PERHAPS THE OCCASIONAL SHARING BETWEEN MATES, BUT NOT CHALLENGES AND ACCOUNTABILITY....GODS GOT THAT COVERED. THIS ARE INTROSPECTIVE THINGS/

Now, as Ive repeatedly said and its been missed, those behaviors that are demonstrably sinful and overt....BAM, bring it up and sort it out. But I just cannot imagine me IN ANY MANNER questioning the humbleness of my wifes prayer for example...thats flat ridiculous! You can say "its for the marriage" "its for the couple"...I dont care...its absurd its so introspective as to be ridiculous for ME to set a standard for HER.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by McScribe http://www.christianforums.com/t7415225-post53437200/#post53437200
I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.
How about porn use?
According to statistics it is an issue of epidemic proportions
In a survey of over 500 Christian men at a men’s retreat, over 90% admitted that they were feeling disconnected from God because lust, porn, or fantasy had gained a foothold in their lives. (source)
I see from another thread that there are members here who see nothing wrong with porn use. but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that this is a Bible believing christian couple who believe lust is sin. Let's make him a pastor who preaches that very message from the pulpit. He is using porn and the wife is against it.
* In 2000 Christianity Today survey, 33% of clergy admitted to having visited a sexually explicit Web site. Of those who had visited a porn site, 53% had visited such sites “a few times” in the past year, and 18% visit sexually explicit sites between a couple of times a month and more than once a week.
* Out of 81 pastors surveyed (74 males 7 female), 98% had been exposed to porn; 43% intentionally accessed a sexually explicit website
National Coalition survey of pastors. Seattle. April 2000. (source)


I would say that if the spouse using porn wanted to please God and his/her spouse they could humble themselves and seek forgiveness from God and spouse.

The partners could humbly pray to God for wisdom and biblical love so that both partners will have hearts with the right attitude and follow God’s leading.

Even though the porn using spouse is wrong and sinning the innocent spouse should use respect in helping the spouse. Both partners could use McSribes 4 point reprinted below:

4. If we have the courage of our faith we can express desires and concerns, and we can hear those of the other person without being defensive or accusatory all the time.

With the actions above in place the number 4 above may include the spouse confronting the offending spouse about all the concerns

If the spouse did not want to please God or the other spouse, then that is another discussion.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Psalms response to McScribe
Originally Posted by McScribe http://www.christianforums.com/t7415225-post53437200/#post53437200
I'd like to invite someone to offer an example if possible that we can work with--an example of a misunderstanding or disagreement that we can subject to the standards I've proposed.
How about porn use?
According to statistics it is an issue of epidemic proportions
In a survey of over 500 Christian men at a men’s retreat, over 90% admitted that they were feeling disconnected from God because lust, porn, or fantasy had gained a foothold in their lives. (source) Psalms response to McScribe
I see from another thread that there are members here who see nothing wrong with porn use. but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that this is a Bible believing christian couple who believe lust is sin. Let's make him a pastor who preaches that very message from the pulpit. He is using porn and the wife is against it.
* In 2000 Christianity Today survey, 33% of clergy admitted to having visited a sexually explicit Web site. Of those who had visited a porn site, 53% had visited such sites “a few times” in the past year, and 18% visit sexually explicit sites between a couple of times a month and more than once a week.
* Out of 81 pastors surveyed (74 males 7 female), 98% had been exposed to porn; 43% intentionally accessed a sexually explicit website
National Coalition survey of pastors. Seattle. April 2000. (source)


CON’s response
Originally Posted by Psalm63 http://www.christianforums.com/t7415225-10/#post53438066
I have to disagree.

IMO, part of the value of marriage is mutual accountability. This is someone who is not going to go away, someone to whom our failings and areas in need of repentance/growth are exposed more than anyone else.

Did Jesus walk out 1 Cor 13 LOVE? Did Jesus LOVE the pharisees when he blasted them in Matt 23? Did Jesus LOVE Peter when he rebuked him saying "Get thee behind me, Satan"? I say he did LOVE them. He loved them enough to speak the TRUTH with them. He loved them enough to be firm with them.

Jesus IS THE STANDARD.....YOU and I are NOT. The difference is painfully obvious.
__________________

Con responds to sdmsanjsoe
Hello!
Did you read the OP!

Sdm to Con
Yes I did and I reposted it above. It appeard to me that you tried to negate Psalm’s point about accountability and her biblical references by saying
Jesus IS THE STANDARD.....YOU and I are NOT. The difference is painfully obvious.

Con
I maybe wrong but you seem to have a personal battle with Psalm and Mkgal and it seems to affect your posts.


Con
I read your posts and it seems you are contradicting yourself. Maybe you are not but if you are then that is why I think your personal battles are affecting your logic

You invalidate Psalm’s point about accountability then you later say that you are for accountability “….OF COURSE confront them”

quote by CON
Its me who should be saying "dont pull the PORN card", and just for good measure because its a matter of time, "dont pull the ABUSE card"...sheesh, OF COURSE confront them.

Con
McScribe ASKED for an example and Psalm gave the porn example. This is McScribe's thread and psalm was responding to McScribe. Your saying
"dont pull the PORN card",

Is interfering with McScribe’s request and psalm’s response.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Quote by McScribe
In a way I'm sorry that this thread has not been about the ideas/standards/whatever you want to call them that I originally posted. It seems to have degenerated into a conversation about what people are worried about or afraid of.

So could we perhaps start with point one--the importance of couples praying together, genuinely humbling themselves before God? Do people agree with that idea, and how do we see that working?


mkgal and I have been trying to say this in this thread and I don't know if it's being understood. It's not the particular individual that needs to recognize these standards but the couple, as an entity and as one flesh.

quotes by CON
Not exactly. Its nice to use the words "its about the marriage"...but then read her posts are all about ways to approach the OTHER PERSON....things like "its best not to blame because that causes defensiveness"

So long as folks are stuck comparing how their spouse is doing, they will ALWAYS be discontented. Thats not the same things as saying that we dont expect ANYTHING from our spouse...its saying that dwelling and worrying over the spouse, using our IMPERFECT feelings as a guide is recipe for disaster.
Read these boarsd and others for overwhelming proof of that.


And you bet, I strongly recommend not CONFRONTING someone because you FEEL unloved or something

McScribe started this thread and has made his topic very clear. He is trying to presents standards that WILL WORK to build relationships.

It seems to me that McScribe’s topics are being derailed by people bringing up WHAT DOES NOT WORK. This business about a spouse being stuck on comparing how their spouse is doing is NOT what the OP is about. The “…stuck on comparing how the other spouse is doing” is a topic for another thread. It seems to me that we have had several discussions on that topic, have we not? However, I am not saying it is not a valid topic it is just derailing the OP IMO

I really think that McScribe had a very healing spiritual experience with his marriage and he wants to share that POSITIVE spiritual experience with others. If I am correct then let’s respect McScribe and look at his words of

Humble prayer to God
Respectful
Honesty
Courage of our faith


These are positive Christian standards that build relationships. Let us save our perception of NEGATIVE standards for another thread

 

[Conservativation]

Look I have been crystal clear, and I dont know why I bother, but again

These standards are great...no issue

When a spouse is overtly sinning the other SHOULD confront them

On THESE standards there IMO should NOT be confrontation

That IS NOT contradictory

as an example

Confront the cheating spouse

Do not confront a spouse to say "your prayers are not humble enough"

Sdm, I cannot read and process all thats in those posts...im sorry.

 

[chaz345]

There's a disconnect here that I'm not sure wether it's an honest minunderstanding or a deliberate misrepresentation as a tactic.

When Cons(or I) says that the standards in the OP are not something anyone should be CONFRONTED over the response is "SO you mean one spouse shouldn't mention sin they see in the other spouse". That response fails on two levels. First is the fact that it's been said several times that a problem in one of those areas should be mentioned. Just not in a confontational manner. Second though is that a "failing" in one of those areas is not only not necessarily a sin, but also can be primarily a result of perception rather than a result of an actual problem with the other spouse.

 

[McScribe]

What I'm confused by is why this is an issue. It seems like there's a fear that inevitably spouses--particlarly women I get the impression--will be saying things like "you're not praying enough" as the particular example mentioned. I agree that that would be a bad thing to do, when you could so easily say "This issue has come up/I'm concerned about/This is worrying me/I'm wondering about...will you pray with me about it?" I think that possibly the problem here is rooted in my #2, which is about respect. There is no respect in "You aren't praying enough!!!!" There IS respect in "Will you pray with me." It's the equivalent of this in a marriage:

"Will you please take out the garbage" vs. "WHEN are you going to take out the garbage?" one is a polite request, the other is a demand. No respect in that, see.

So I think that really we're not as much in disagreement as we might think we are.

 

[mkgal1]

What I'm confused by is why this is an issue. It seems like there's a fear that inevitably spouses--particlarly women I get the impression--will be saying things like "you're not praying enough" as the particular example mentioned. I agree that that would be a bad thing to do, when you could so easily say "This issue has come up/I'm concerned about/This is worrying me/I'm wondering about...will you pray with me about it?" I think that possibly the problem here is rooted in my #2, which is about respect. There is no respect in "You aren't praying enough!!!!" There IS respect in "Will you pray with me." It's the equivalent of this in a marriage:

"Will you please take out the garbage" vs. "WHEN are you going to take out the garbage?" one is a polite request, the other is a demand. No respect in that, see.

So I think that really we're not as much in disagreement as we might think we are.

I agree with this.......and I often wonder why there is so much opposition between myself and Cons and Chaz when it does seem we all agree on a lot of things.

What you are saying here is what I have been trying to say, and why I mentioned that if ALL the ideas are being focused on in unison (to whatever degree) then there should be minimal conflict. The combination of humility, respect, and a desire to honor God just seems like the basic and necessary ingredients that make up a successful relationship.

Cons and Chaz.....no one is trying to misrepresent what you are saying. I can say personally, I just don't understand your stance, and have said that. You seem to speak in circles....say one thing....it gets rebutted....and then you say, "I didn't say that!". It makes my head spin to where I don't know which way is up.

In an effort to understand you both....are you saying that unless something can be clearly defined....it shouldn't be confronted? Things that are objective and overt like an affair are okay to bring up, because they are defined. That feelings and opinions are too subjective for discussion and there are too many varying degrees to define what is acceptable? To be even more specific, statements that you find offensive are, "You don't listen to me"...."You don't try to understand me enough"...."You don't love me the way you should." Is that correct?

 

[Conservativation]

Nope actually we say the same thing over and over, and the attempt to repeat it back is wrong, or the answer is to a point we never made, which is why we say "I never said that"....no, we dont say one thing then another. Its as consistent as day and night.

That post above is good, in that it frames the manner in which we should go to our loved ones.

But this isnt about taking out the trash, per se, its about very very important things....the standards mentioned are surely not likened to taking out trash. Its not so much the WAY its said, its that there is a perceived need to say it in the first place. Its not about "you dont pray enough".....its (using your own examples) about saying something (silly) like "your prayers lack humilty"....or any thing that truly IS subjective and between me and God.

Further, as Ive said if you want examples read thread after thread here and elsewhere where it IS A MAJOR ISSUE, the complaining about men regarding these standards which are frankly unknowable because they are heart matters. They one sits and dwells in that is already a recipe for disaster.

 

[mkgal1]

In an effort to understand you both....are you saying that unless something can be clearly defined....it shouldn't be confronted? Things that are objective and overt like an affair are okay to bring up, because they are defined. That feelings and opinions are too subjective for discussion and there are too many varying degrees to define what is acceptable? To be even more specific, statements that you find offensive are, "You don't listen to me"...."You don't try to understand me enough"...."You don't love me the way you should." Is that correct?

You didn't answer my questions.

 

[Conservativation]

Yes, more/less thats correct...more/less. But you offered examples that are not part of this thread. Im talking about the OP standards, as I thought we allw ere, so the other things you pop in w/ are not relevant to my points.

using the OP, only your last example is remotely part of it "you dont love me the way you should".....even though not specifically one of the OP's it is not something I believe a person should VERY OFTEN be dwelling in.....I didnt say never, and I will say never should it be slapped at someone in such absolute terms, because it coopts GODS standard when you use the word "SHOULD". GOD is the one who determines what we SHOULD do in this regard...NOT the spouse, and GOD KNOWS far more then you do, what the other person is doing vis a vis His standard. Now, if you break it down into very specific actions, like "Id like you to speand more time with me"....thats fine and good...because it tells them you want improvement, and it tells them that the improvement is based on what YOU want..and thats fine. But when YOU start telling OTHERS that they are not meeting GODS standards, its a problem. And its one best left to God and the individual.

 

[mkgal1]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

Okay....let's get back to the OP. I found it interesting that you made references to appearance when speaking about honesty.

Something I am seeing with your stance (or at least what I can try to figure out your stance even IS) is that a wife wouldn't have the freedom to come to her husband and say, "I am not feeling that you are taking the time to genuinely listen to me in an effort to understand me."

Is that true? Do you feel that is too judgmental and too subjective for her to bring that up?

 

[Conservativation]

MK I cant be more clear.

Your example:I am not feeling that you are taking the time to genuinely listen to me in an effort to understand me."

Is addressed almost exactly in my last post. I really dont know what more to say. Yes thats OK to say...NOTE, it doesnt make a comparison to a standard, it says how you feel....thats FINE, but when you take your feelings, and then make THAT say that the person isnt living up to GODS standards, thats NOT ok.

Please, if this isnt clear, can we drop it.

 

[mkgal1]

Hello!
Did you read the OP!

The discussion and ANY reference I make to standards to to the OP!

Its me who should be saying "dont pull the PORN card", and just for good measure because its a matter of time, "dont pull the ABUSE card"...sheesh, OF COURSE confront them.

Please be kind enough to read the few pages before and dont assume Im that stupid.

Im talking about the 5 standards being listed as OP. Im talking about subjective things, not things that are not measurable. And you bet, I strongly recommend not CONFRONTING someone because you FEEL unloved or something. Oh, it is good to address it, but very very carefully, because there IS no standard that one can say YES or NO that someone is loving sufficiently. THATS what I was talking about in my response to Psalm, and the post I responded to I dont think had a wit to do with porn anyway.

Im truly BEGGING to not make this thread turn into another one about porn and abuse. Youd think they were the only things in the world that happen.

Your defensiveness shows up in your posts. Stan was asking for clarification, because your posts are unclear. I am not the only one who has that opinion.

The whole reason Psalm even brought up ANY example, was because YOU asked for an example and she provided one. Then you flip back and say that you are talking about the OP thoughts...nothing else.

I believe the problem with your idea that the subject of a woman not "feeling loved" can be "addressed", yet not "confronted", is that it appears from your posts that it simply being "addressed" is perceived as a "confrontation".

You and Chaz often use words like "failings" or that these expectations/standards/goals are "enforced upon" the other spouse...it really shows a lot of defensiveness, to be honest.

 

[mkgal1]

MK I cant be more clear.

Your example:I am not feeling that you are taking the time to genuinely listen to me in an effort to understand me."

Is addressed almost exactly in my last post. I really dont know what more to say. Yes thats OK to say...NOTE, it doesnt make a comparison to a standard, it says how you feel....thats FINE, but when you take your feelings, and then make THAT say that the person isnt living up to GODS standards, thats NOT ok.

Please, if this isnt clear, can we drop it.

But to ask for more time to be spent together wouldn't be what the wife would truly be needing. She wouldn't simply need TIME....she would need UNDERSTANDING.

 

[mkgal1]

If opinions and subjective thoughts can’t be discussed without defensiveness, then how is a husband to live in understanding of his wife? If all she can discuss with her husband are basically facts, then isn’t everything she is discussing with him things he already knows? In that, I don’t agree.

I see a big problem with the opinion that only clearly defined behaviors may be discussed, and that is that it CAN actually create that in which you have an aversion to….the attacking of behavior. If that is all that is accepted—discussions about behavior that can be proven- then, that sort of puts one spouse in the position of prosecutor and the other as defender. If there is any discontent, it is going to have to be clearly defined behaviors that can be proven.

I see the scenario played out like this, “Hun….I am feeling as though you haven’t been taking the time to understand me.” He responds with a line of questions that basically asks her to “prove” what he has done to make her feel that way. He will ask her things like, “ when did I do that?” “What exactly did I say?” putting her in the position of building a sort of case to prove her point…. He is kind of forcing her into attacking his behavior…. do you see that?

Another thing that keeps being brought up is that these standards are “subjected to” or “enforced upon” the other spouse. I don’t see it that way at all. It SHOULD be that both spouses have the internal desire to have these ideas guide the marriage, not that one spouse is expecting and the other is delivering.

I think it comes down to attitudes, and not behaviors, since it is attitudes that guide our behaviors. I feel we can divide attitudes up into two categories---humility and defensiveness.

 

[Conservativation]

I offer this topic as a reason why a wife telling her husband he isnt understanding her is a useless thing to tell him. Sometimes it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand...as is evidenced here.

Unbelievable

I dont care whether someone agrees or not. But I am very straightfwd.

Anyway.....hand it up

 

[mkgal1]

I offer this topic as a reason why a wife telling her husband he isnt understanding her is a useless thing to tell him. Sometimes it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand...as is evidenced here.

Unbelievable

I dont care whether someone agrees or not. But I am very straightfwd.

Anyway.....hand it up

Personally, I believe God would NEVER call a man to something He cannot-or will not- enable him to do.

Cons, you do not have to understand ME...but a husband is called to understand his wife.

In Ephesians 1 it says:
7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

 

[Lilymay]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

I think this is an awesome standard, whether the couple is praying together about their marriage or each individually praying about their marriage. Praying genuinely, humbly, and honestly is up to each individual, that is between the person and God.

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

Respect is very important to a marriage. I know that respect is relative but there are some basic fundamental truths in regards to respect and each spouse should follow those basics.

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

To me, this standard should be a given. Why would someone be opposed to honesty in a marriage?


4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

Yes, we should have the courage to say and hear what is true. This is our spouse we are talking about. The one we married. If we can't talk or listen to our spouse about issues than there is a problem.

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

.

 

[teddyv]

I’ve still had difficulty following the thread as far as the OP. I’ve tried to frame the original list with respect to my marriage. This may be rambling and completely off-topic. I don’t know.

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

In all honesty, prayer life is one of my weakest areas. But we do regularly pray for guidance in our marriage and especially as parents.

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

We respect each other greatly (at least I think I can safely say that about my wife). Courtesy is part of it of course (again, especially when kids are in the picture). As far as listening and understanding, I think we have been blessed in that regard. Maybe because I grew up only with sisters and she with only brothers we have a bit of a better understanding of how the opposite sex operates. But we often have conversations discussing ourselves and our perceptions and how we each perceive each other. These have been invaluable in identifying certain cues when one of us is working through something.

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

Again, depends on the issue to a point. As was brought up the old landmine of “do I look fat in this” is a poor example. It’s not a fair question to pose to a spouse. My wife is a bit on the bigger side and she is honest and acknowledges that. She exercises and does what she can to stay in shape and in health. So who am I to complain? And anyway, I married her. It wasn't an issue then so it isn't now. This is a fairly specific example and maybe not the best but I think being honest with each other, you need to be honest with yourself first and recognize areas of weakness, areas of growth, as well as areas of strength.

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

As brought up elsewhere if it is something clear and definable with an obvious or potential threat toward the marriage then fine. Could someone give and example though of a situation where it is “emotionally dangerous”? Also who in this regard is in the emotionally dangerous state?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

This one, I’m still not sure if it is directed toward the married couple or to other married couples around them. Or both?