Are nudist church services morally acceptable?

[Sam91]

Evidence please.

Hmm that would take a lot of referencing from the odd sentence scattered about through many of the classic novels written in the 1700's to modern day. It is a little difficult having donated most to charity over the years and the sheer amount of re-reading involved lol it would take years.

I am, however, interested enough in this idea to have a little google about whether anyone has written anything about it. (Even if it is nearly midnight).

EDIT: as to not write another OT post. This person seems to think it was out of racism but I happen to have read novels/seen tv shows that hint to it being a white victorian thing too. So this is just a part of the tradition.

http://jhvonline.com/theres-a-deep-tradition-behind-wearing-your-sunday-best-p10854-147.htm

The wikipedia link mentions naturism in it and there is a source relating to Christian naturism in the reference list. If anyone is interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_clothing

This article lines up with what I have read and gradually worked out through many a novel, written through those times.

https://www.truthaccordingtoscriptu...ng-up/dressing-up-for-church.php#.W52QCp_TU0P

 

[mmksparbud]

You are the first person I’ve ever heard describe Hippolytus of Rome as deluded.

Anyone who thinks public nudity is OK in the sight of God has to be deluded!! Nudity in ancient times was done to shame that person. It is how Jesus was crucified--if you think He appreciated that you are definitely deluded!

And by the way--public nudity is still done to shame the people involved---it is how the Jews were led to the gas chambers.

 

[mmksparbud]

Actually Adam and Eve—assuming here were such people—covered themselves. God merely gave them improved garments.

They had, after the fall, for the first time, experienced shame and covered themselves up--but only with aprons---aprons do not cover much--God gave them new and improved versions.

 

[Sam91]

Evidence please.

https://www.truthaccordingtoscriptu...ng-up/dressing-up-for-church.php#.W52QCp_TU0P

 

[DarkSoul999]

What benefits do you get going to church nude compared to clothed?

nobody can judge you on your clothing.

That might be the only benefit but yea.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Then why don't modern translations (which talk about incest, but not nudity) condemn nudity?

Leviticus 18:6-20 (NIV)

6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord."

7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her."

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father."

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere."

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you."

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister."

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative."

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative."

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt."

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her."

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother."

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness."

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living."

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period."

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her."

Let's just jump to the point. You think there is nothing wrong with a naked church?

 

[Sam91]

nobody can judge you on your clothing.

That might be the only benefit but yea.

They might be more prone to judge you on your diet, bone structure or varicose veins instead... Us humans seem to have a propensity to judge each other. It does aid in getting people to conform to values and social rules though.

 

[Sam91]

Let's just jump to the point. You think there is nothing wrong with a naked church?

(Those views were stated earlier in the thread.)

 

[Darkhorse]

Let's just jump to the point. You think there is nothing wrong with a naked church?

That's correct - I said so in my first post (#7).

 

[Archivist]

Let's just jump to the point. You think there is nothing wrong with a naked church?

That point was reached some time ago.

 

[Archivist]

No---It is you who are tryin g to apply modern cultural norms----or more accurately--lack of---to what was done in bible times. Yes---nudity was looked on very differently in bible times---that is why Hams' brothers went into to their father's tent backwards to cover him up!! And why God covered up Adam and Eve. It is not the opinion of man that matters but that of God.

Rev_3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see
The people in those churches that are sitting around naked are so far gone they have not the presence of mind to even have shame---which is the first thing that Adam and Eve felt after they fell.

Then why was Peter fishing nude?

 

[Archivist]

Anyone who thinks public nudity is OK in the sight of God has to be deluded!! Nudity in ancient times was done to shame that person. It is how Jesus was crucified--if you think He appreciated that you are definitely deluded!

And by the way--public nudity is still done to shame the people involved---it is how the Jews were led to the gas chambers.

Forced public nudity is done to shame people. It is not shameful to be naked by choice.

 

[Archivist]

https://www.truthaccordingtoscriptu...ng-up/dressing-up-for-church.php#.W52QCp_TU0P

And if you read what you sent it specifically addresses dress from the 1800s on. Prior to that no one dressed up for church.

 

[Archivist]

They might be more prone to judge you on your diet, bone structure or varicose veins instead... Us humans seem to have a propensity to judge each other. It does aid in getting people to conform to values and social rules though.

My experience from visits to nude beaches it that most people—at least those who are regulars—don’t pay much attention to that. You can usually pick out American men with ease. They are the ones staring.

 

[mmksparbud]

Then why was Peter fishing nude?

Good Grief--He was fishing with the guys--not getting baptized!! And what was it he did when he realized Jesus was there?

Joh 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

Even a rough fisherman had the decency and respect to put his clothes on in the presence of Jesus. And these people take theirs off!!

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Actually Adam and Eve—assuming here were such people—covered themselves. God merely gave them improved garments.

Wow. Just wow.
You are questioning whether Adam and Eve even existed?
How about Jesus Christ the Saviour ?
Did He exist ?

You say that God merely gave them improved garments???

That completely floors me.
Sir, Adam and Eve sinned and realized this by trying to "cover" their sin by the works of their hands (the sewing of fig leaves .

Without the shedding of blood there is no remissions of sin .
This is why God sacrificed an animal (the Scriptures do not state, but I guarantee it was a lamb) to cover their sin(s).

It is a picture of that which would (and did) come as the sacrifice for all mans sins . The Lamb of God Jesus Christ.

So you are wrong by mockingly stating that God just merely improved their garments.

 

[Sam91]

Then why was Peter fishing nude?

"That disciple whom Jesus loved therefore said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work, and threw himself into the sea."

ESV version. Which is quite a good version. You know, in all my time reading the Bible, the fact he was supposedly naked has never entered into my head. Possibly because I have always understood that he was working with water and would be getting wet so probably has some kind of undergarment on. (I love the way he dressed before jumping into the sea! His love and respect for the Lord is so evident. Gone was the care of getting his clothes wet! Praise the Lord!)

For example, I am one of those who classes myself wearing underwear as naked... same as with my children. However, when someone isn't wearing underwear they are then completely naked. I believe it means that he didn't have on outer apparel. I don't think there was much in the way of waterproof clothing and coating material in tar or oil is a fire risk with the torches etc? Or would be uncomfortable/bad for skin?

 

[mmksparbud]

Forced public nudity is done to shame people. It is not shameful to be naked by choice.

No---going out in public nude is quite OK for those that have no shame, the rest of the Christians are like Adam and Eve--and Peter-- and feel shame and cover up.

 

[Sam91]

And if you read what you sent it specifically addresses dress from the 1800s on. Prior to that no one dressed up for church.

No, it mentioned that before that labourers owned two sets of clothes. Work clothes and slightly better ones for going into town. (This was just before the industrial revolution. Most people were labourers before the industrial revolution. People started moving more into towns more from the 1400's because of improvements in farming equipment. Well, it slowly started in the 1100's but in the 1400's it was more pronounced. Improvement in farming techniques meant less people needed to work the fields, towns grew bigger.

With the beginnings of factories people started to be able to own more clothes but still not everyone could afford many. Most people still only had work clothes and a better set.)

 

[Sam91]

My experience from visits to nude beaches it that most people—at least those who are regulars—don’t pay much attention to that. You can usually pick out American men with ease. They are the ones staring.

You are a man. Believe me, this is what a lay woman (as in, not someone accustomed to seeing naked people) would be noticing amongst a naked congregation. Or at least me, no matter how hard I would try not to.

At least at the pool I don't notice such things but my eyes are busy watching my children there. Sat in church, it would be hard to satisfy my curious nature. At least dressed I'm not interested in what people wear... but naked it would be interesting to see how peoples diet affects different parts of the body. It would be a great science lesson. Not to mention thinking those who groomed more as less modest.. what a can of worms to open. Clothing is best all round... it is also biblical!