Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

[Bob Moore]

If God is a truly eternal Being, then He must be acknowledge as an antecedent Being, and must then in some way be before all things and that is why the scriptures declare, "...He is before all things..." Colossians 1:17 The question can only be answered by being further complicating it with a second question, "What is the difference between an act of foreordination and an act of ordination? The terms, by way of translation, are both used in the Holy Bible and therefore both are allowed for. My feeling is that foreordination, or predestination, is always in a particular sense and always positive in objective. Even the foreordained death of Christ was positive in that it's objective was to save, while such passages like, "...They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed." in I Peter 2:8b refer to in-time ordination. Judas stumbled over the Rock of Christ, and this scripture in I Peter would seem to indicate that God appointed that stumbling, but since all scriptures dealing with foreordination are positive in nature, we must conclude that God appointed Judas to this fate based upon his willful choice of disobedience in time.

This is not original with you. Would you care to specify your source?

 

[CCWoody]

This is not original with you. Would you care to specify your source?

Hmmm, notice the logical contradition and the difficulty with Romans 9 that it has?

 

[inchristalone221]

For the sake of throwing new light on the issue of children and reprobation, I believe it is necessary to exposit an interesting hypothetical:

A child or person with severe learning disabilities will also be judged according to what they have been given. If they have not yet reached the age of understanding, or if they will never reach it, I believe that God in His mercy will save them.

I whole-heartedly believe this (I say this up front to avoid the impression that I'm some psychotic, hateful individual who thinks all babies go to hell). However, if God chose not to save them, I would still believe in the same doctrines of grace. Further, I would not presume to question God's justice in condemning anyone He sees fit to condemn.

I notice in the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate, most of the argument centers around Arminians (and Pelagians) questioning the Calvinist model on the grounds that God is not just if He does such a thing as election. Paul answered such questioning "Who are you oh man that you should talk back to God in this way?"

I personally believe that God saves children who die (simply because of what I know of God's character from His word), but my question to the Arminian/Pelagian/Catholic is this:

If I simply respond that children are reprobate, would you consider God unjust?

 

[Salesian]

Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell?

For example, say a man who lived in Saudi Arabia (where Christianity is illegal to be taught) as a devout Muslim all of his life and died. Is he predestined by God to go to Hell because of the place and culture that he was born into did not allow him to be taught the Gospel?

Thanks,

I realize there has been much discussion up to now, but to address the OP,...

As a Calvinist, I never believed, nor was I taught to believe, that a person being born into a Muslim, Hindu, etc, culture was de facto reprobate. The term "predistined" is commonly referred to as the elect, not used to refer to those outside of the # of the elect, the "invisible church."

The individual's rejection of the Gospel of Christ, when/if he is presented with the Gospel and call to faith, and the individual's dying unrepentant in that state would be the only indication of that person's predestination or reprobation. But then again, based on JBFA, who actually knows whether or not that person was gifted with faith at the last moment of their life??

-Rob

 

[Salesian]

Maybe it's already been brought up, but the WMCOF, which I'm sure everyone here knows about, as a famous and enduring statement of the Calvinist beliefs, does mention "elect infants."

Chapter 10 - Effectual Calling
Article 3:

Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how He pleaseth; so also are all other elect persons who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.

By the way, that last little bit can cover a lot of people!! But it must be taken in context with the whole of the confession.

Some examples are Luke 18:15, Acts 2:38 (you and your children), John 3:8, and also John the Baptist leaping in his mother's womb when the Blessed Virgin Mary visited Elizabeth, and also Solomon's son who died (II Samuel 12: 14-23), are other examples that are used, but not listed.

That's also a good view for a covenental view of God's dealing with Christian families

-Rob

 

[Bob Moore]

Originally Posted by: Cary.Melvin

Are Non-Christians Predestined to go to Hell? For example, say a man who lived in Saudi Arabia (where Christianity is illegal to be taught) as a devout Muslim all of his life and died. Is he predestined by God to go to Hell because of the place and culture that he was born into did not allow him to be taught the Gospel?

Thanks,

The short answer is yes. And here is why. The Koran teaches that a man has two angels: one on his right shoulder, and one on his left (Sura 4:4, I think). The one on the right records all the good that the man does, and the one on his left records the bad that he does. Upon death, the judgment is based on which has the heavier weight. More good: heaven, more bad: hell. But the Koran also teaches that there is one, and only one, way to avoid those scales of justice: heroic death by maryterdom against the infidel (us). Make of that what you will. It is an undisputable fact.

 

[ascribe2thelord]

People in the Muslim world who live their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to the God of Islam will not be saved.

People in the Muslim world who lives their lives to the best of their abilities in submission to God are not Muslims, they're Christians.

From my understanding, Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a real person. If they cannot understand that we have a sin problem and that because of that we can never reach God of our own merits, then I don't see how they can be saved. To be saved one must believe in Jesus as the Son of God - this is what's expressly said in John 3:16-18. What he did is called substitutionary atonement - meaning that He took God's wrath for us sinners, who cannot. Unless one believes that, there is no way he or she can enter heaven.

 

[ascribe2thelord]

From my understanding, Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a real person. If they cannot understand that we have a sin problem and that because of that we can never reach God of our own merits, then I don't see how they can be saved. To be saved one must believe in Jesus as the Son of God - this is what's expressly said in John 3:16-18. What he did is called substitutionary atonement - meaning that He took God's wrath for us sinners, who cannot. Unless one believes that, there is no way he or she can enter heaven.

But if you're asking, are they predestined - perhaps. I don't think it's ours to ask, though. There is legitimate questioning of God, and there is defiance. I believe the Arminians are speaking in defiance when they criticize God's soverignty over his creation.

 

[inchristalone221]

And I would sum up what needs to be known about election as this:

God is not obliged to give equally that which He is not obliged to give at all.

God is sovereign in the administration of His grace and love. To challenge this is to blaspheme (in my opinion, what you say is between you and God).