Are Nazarenes Liberal ?

[Smoky]

Growing up I remember Nazarenes as being old fashioned fundamentalist Christians, shunning the movies, drinking, etc. Are they now as liberal as United Methodists?

 

[Anto9us]

That "no movies" bit stands out to me when I was little -- 2 brothers down the street played ball with us but never went to the movies...

When "Saturday Night At The Movies" came out in the 60's and movies started being on TV; the theological implications alone must have been staggering...

I bet they are a tad less liberal than United Methodists

but there are experts who can speak

 

[graceandpeace]

I'm former Nazarene.

I think as a whole the denomination leans "conservative" in its values, though perhaps not as stringent today as the examples in the OP. To my knowledge, alcohol consumption & even dancing are still condemned or frowned upon in the church's handbook.

Of course, individual churches probably vary. The one I was last a member of is greatly different from the last one I attended on any regular basis - in how sermons were delivered/what topics were focused on, the role of the handbook, etc.

 

[Maid Marie]

Growing up I remember Nazarenes as being old fashioned fundamentalist Christians, shunning the movies, drinking, etc. Are they now as liberal as United Methodists?

Depends on to whom or what you are comparing us. In comparison to Episcopalians, Lutherans [of the ELCA type], UCC, some UMC, and Presbyterians we are conservative if not maybe even fundamentalist. But to Baptists and fundamentalists we are liberal. And then it depends on the region. The areas along the coasts can be more liberal than the south or central part of the USA. And it depends on if you mean liberal in theology or in practice. In practice we still are not [still shun alcohol for the most part]. Our theology is still Trinitarian with an emphasis on salvation message over social gospel but we believe that God calls women as well as men to the ministry.

The covenant of Christian Character [aka the special rules] is not as legalistic as it once was. But we still have it while other denominations don't have that concept at all.

 

[BryanW92]

and Presbyterians

(of the PCUSA type)

 

[circuitrider]

"...as liberal as United Methodists..."

Actually United Methodists are liberal, moderate, conservative and just about everything in between. So it depends on which United Methodists you are talking about.

 

[JCFantasy23]

"...as liberal as United Methodists..."

Actually United Methodists are liberal, moderate, conservative and just about everything in between. So it depends on which United Methodists you are talking about.

Yeah, I caught that too and agree with you.

 

[BipolarBear46]

Nazarenes are more consistently conservative and are a little bit more noisy in their worship from what I've experienced.

 

[GraceSeeker]

Growing up I remember Nazarenes as being old fashioned fundamentalist Christians, shunning the movies, drinking, etc. Are they now as liberal as United Methodists?

So, not shunning movies, drinking, etc. are how you define liberal? Wonder what you would call a person who was known as a drunkard, a glutton, a violator of the Sabbath, and hung out with harlots and tax collectors?

 

[circuitrider]

Yes, I take it back. If watching movies is part of the definition of being a liberal than nearly 100% of United Methodists are liberals. LOL

 

[Maid Marie]

Yes, I take it back. If watching movies is part of the definition of being a liberal than nearly 100% of United Methodists are liberals. LOL

As a kid growing up Nazarene, whenever I would visit my Methodist cousins I was always shocked to hear them refer to the latest movie they've seen.

 

[circuitrider]

As a kid growing up Nazarene, whenever I would visit my Methodist cousins I was always shocked to hear them refer to the latest movie they've seen.

Interesting Maid Marie. I grew up Southern Baptist and while the SBC is against the drinking of alcoholic beverages, watching movies and playing cards were never a prohibition during my growing up years.

What I find in my UMC Conference in the upper midwest is that few people under the age of sixty abstain from drinking alcohol.

The current position of the UMC is abstinence or judicious use. I find only a few advocates of abstinence.

 

[Maid Marie]

Interesting Maid Marie. I grew up Southern Baptist and while the SBC is against the drinking of alcoholic beverages, watching movies and playing cards were never a prohibition during my growing up years.

What I find in my UMC Conference in the upper midwest is that few people under the age of sixty abstain from drinking alcohol.

The current position of the UMC is abstinence or judicious use. I find only a few advocates of abstinence.

I'm afraid that this is starting to occur with Nazarenes. Some still advocate abstinence but not like it was when I was younger.

 

[circuitrider]

I'm afraid that this is starting to occur with Nazarenes. Some still advocate abstinence but not like it was when I was younger.

Up here in the part of the world dominated by Scandinavian and German descended folks I'm not sure abstinence ever made much headway here. It is part of the culture. I personally am an advocated for judicious use.

One of my theological concerns is banning practices from the Church that aren't required in the scriptures. I respect people who want to abstain from alcohol or who have decided that they don't want to watch movies or play cards. But I don't see much Biblical support for the Church restricting those practices.

If you read John Wesley carefully he was opposed to drinking gin and other distilled alcohol because of the rampant alcoholism and abuse of cheap gin in his day. But apparently Wesley still drank wine and many Christians including Methodists drank beer until the Temperance Movement lumped all alcohol drinking together.

In fact the owner of Guinness was an Irish Methodist who gave huge sums of money to charity and helped the poor.

So there are a number of ways to look at these issues.

 

[Shane R]

Allow me to comment based on my experience participating in a Nazarene small group. First, the particular congregation was coastal but in the Southeast, so the early comment that coastal congregations tend to be 'liberal' I think is partially negated by Southern culture.

From my observation the Nazarenes were culturally quite similar to the AoG but the congregation was much more white than the local AoG. I think finding a theological liberal, in the classic definition of that term (ie. Schleiermacher and Harnack, etc.), among the Nazarenes is a rare occurrence. In my experience, Biblical literacy was not high among the laity of the congregation and the staff was not well equipped to address it or seemingly much concerned by it - they were mostly invested in having 'great, Spirit-led' worship services.

I know the Nazarene congregation in my small Ohio hometown to be more conservative in culture and practice, but that was probably a result of the composition of the community. It was a well respected church, though not very large, and actually put useful or thoughtful remarks on their sign.

 

[Maid Marie]

Up here in the part of the world dominated by Scandinavian and German descended folks I'm not sure abstinence ever made much headway here. It is part of the culture. I personally am an advocated for judicious use.

One of my theological concerns is banning practices from the Church that aren't required in the scriptures. I respect people who want to abstain from alcohol or who have decided that they don't want to watch movies or play cards. But I don't see much Biblical support for the Church restricting those practices.

If you read John Wesley carefully he was opposed to drinking gin and other distilled alcohol because of the rampant alcoholism and abuse of cheap gin in his day. But apparently Wesley still drank wine and many Christians including Methodists drank beer until the Temperance Movement lumped all alcohol drinking together.

In fact the owner of Guinness was an Irish Methodist who gave huge sums of money to charity and helped the poor.

So there are a number of ways to look at these issues.

This is why I don't make much effort to use many biblical references when explaining why I favor abstinence.

 

[BipolarBear46]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler,
and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Proverbs 20:1 NRSV

 

[BryanW92]

This is why I don't make much effort to use many biblical references when explaining why I favor abstinence.

When I was a teenager, my father was an alcoholic and abusive towards me. He never hit me, but he made my life a living hell for those years so I left to join the Navy 4 days after I turned 18.

Despite spending 8 years in the Navy, I do not drink alcohol, even "socially". Although the bible may not say "Do not drink alcohol", I think that the Social Gospel that Methodists cling to with such gusto should include abstinence from a substance that does not glorify God in any way, ruins lives, removes inhibitions that permit people to do things that they might have enough self-control to not do if they were sober.

Aside from some possible cholesterol reduction benefits, there is nothing good about consuming alcohol except for intoxication and I think there might be some scripture about that.

I applaud the way you stick to your convictions, MM, in favoring abstinence.

 

[Maid Marie]

This is why I don't make much effort to use many biblical references when explaining why I favor abstinence.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler,
and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Proverbs 20:1 NRSV

Thanks!

Despite spending 8 years in the Navy, I do not drink alcohol, even "socially". Although the bible may not say "Do not drink alcohol", I think that the Social Gospel that Methodists cling to with such gusto should include abstinence from a substance that does not glorify God in any way, ruins lives, removes inhibitions that permit people to do things that they might have enough self-control to not do if they were sober.

This is the reason why Nazarenes have been so strongly anti-alcohol. Something of a biblical basis but a lot having to do with the social gospel. Even though my fellow Nazarenes may grumble and gripe about the alcohol ban and may call it legalistic, I am very happy and proud even to be in a denomination that provides a safe haven for those struggling with alcohol.

When I was a teenager, my father was an alcoholic and abusive towards me. He never hit me, but he made my life a living hell for those years so I left to join the Navy 4 days after I turned 18.

...

Aside from some possible cholesterol reduction benefits, there is nothing good about consuming alcohol except for intoxication and I think there might be some scripture about that.

I applaud the way you stick to your convictions, MM, in favoring abstinence.

Thanks, besides the Nazarene upbringing and pro-abstinence parents, my main reason is that I have seen how alcohol has affected so many of my friends and some family. In fact, alcohol played a part in a family member's murder. My college roommate would share horror stories of life with an alcoholic parent. And the latest is dealing with another college friend from our Nazarene alma mater who discovered alcohol after college and is now a recovering alcoholic with some terrible battle scars. Like you, I was really scared away from that stuff from the get go.

The only time I was really tempted when I saw how bad my student teaching semester was going to be. I considered drowning my sorrows in alcohol but knew that it wouldn't solve anything so spent the night in lots of bible reading and prayer. I developed other problems [chronic migraines and hashimoto's thyroiditis] over the years from teaching but at least none involve a chemical dependency... other than maybe needing 2 cups of coffee each morning [which I cut in half once I quit teaching].

 

[circuitrider]

This is why I don't make much effort to use many biblical references when explaining why I favor abstinence.

I understand. And there are some good reasons for abstinence which. I just don't believe in making it a matter of church law or fellowship.